Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by eleonorad, Jul 12, 2012.
I thought Jammers was saying both.
Well...on a personal/selfish level I must admit to not exactly being thrilled over this news, but more power to her if she feels she's got more left in her. She will need to up the tech however if she wants to continue to be competitive with the new wave of Russians.
Does anyone know why Carolina's name is crossed out in Grand Prix's lists?
If she can do it then she deserves to be there! The Russians are not infallible.
Odd! If she won't participate on the GP's can she still compete at Europeans and Worlds?
I wish Icenetwork would make some research before posting these kind of articles that basically just say things that everybody can see with they own eyes: Kostner's name crossed from the entry list.
They could call to Kostner's coach or her federation and try to get some more info.
She just became a world champion, a very long-wanted goal of her life and also just announced that she'll continue till Sochi. Carolina might have thought that she needs some time off to be better prepared in the long run.
I'm wondering if maybe since she's planning on continuing until Sochi if she's taking the time now to get her knee fixed.
Was that knee injury what prevented her to attempt lutz?
From my understanding, yes, it was the knee injury that kept her from doing the lutz.
I think she's just late on her preparation...she decided about her future not even a month ago and I doubt she had trained much before her decision...
I thought the new article based on Kostner's press conference should be cross-posted in this thread as well:
ETA that Kostner's GP slots have since been filled by Kiira Korpi (Cup of China) and Christina Gao (TEB).
I'm going to translate just the part about Carolina.
[Alex Schwazer etc etc]
"About the Olympic Games, many things could change from here to 2014, but I want to be there." Said Kostner during the promotion of the gala "Opera On Ice" that will take place at the Arena di Verona on September 22nd.
"I will begin the season later and I won't be doing GPs" the champion added "I decided that with my coach, in order to avoid injuries and have a lighter season"
[bla bla bla Opera On Ice bla bla bla complete cast bla bla huge show]
I have no problem with Carolina wanting to compete in 2014 Oly. It's the skater's choice. However, if she wins the OGM without a 3lutz, I will SCREAAAM!!!!
The lutz is my favorite triple, so I'd be a little sorry to see an OGM-winning routine which lacked that or a triple axel. That said, if Kostner could manage a 3-3 in both phases and land more than three triples of greater difficulty than the salchow, I wouldn't mind so much. That was the one thing that irked me about her well-deserved win at this year's Worlds: a 3r and a 3f at the start of the free skate, but toe loops and salchows otherwise. That really did recall the ladies' skating scene 20+ years ago.
The ladies 20 years ago didn't have to do more than perfunctory spins and footwork, though, nor did it seem like the top skaters (at least) had to worry about edge calls or under-rotations, even in some egregious cases.
True. I just conceded one respect in which her win did recall those days. Even with the advent of stricter edge and rotation calls, every one of Kostner's COP predecessors managed to win the World title with more than two triples of greater difficulty than the salchow over both phases. So did most of the skaters to win silver and bronze medals in the same system.
There were three other World Champions from 2007-2011: Mao Asada (2), Miki Ando (2), and YuNa Kim (1). Of the remaining 10 medals won at Worlds between 2007-2010, all but three were won by the same three skaters; the other three were won by Laura Lepisto, Joannie Rochette, and Kostner. Lepisto was blasted for having lesser technical content than Kostner.
Four of those skaters are no longer competing. (Kostner is also the only active and competitive skater -- I don't count Suguri as competitive, even if she continues to skate -- who medaled in the previous Olympic cycle, since CoP was introduced.) Mao Asada is re-tooling her jumping technique, although she reverted to her 3A strategy towards the end of the season, and seemed to regress from the gains she made earlier.
At Worlds this year, Kostner beat Leonova, who got serious PCS gifts, especially in the FS -- her PCS were within .14 of Suzuki, really? -- and Suzuki. I love Suzuki and think every one of her components should have been at least Kostner's equal, but even though she had harder jump content in the FS, she had two flawed jump combinations, and Kostner had one - GOE score of 108 individual marks. I don't think Suzuki's components in the SP should have been lower than Kostner's, and I certainly don't think they should have been lower than Leonova's. In my universe, Suzuki would have beaten Kostner for the title, but it would have been very, very close.
What we have is a field that can't definitively challenge Kostner like Asada of old, Ando, and Kim did. If the field that skates can't bring it, the gold medal goes to the person who brings the most. Hopefully Suzuki and Wagner will get respect from the judges this year, if they skate well.
I am glad the stars aligned for Kostner this past season. The lack of a 3lutz is really her only weakness, which she makes up with a 3toe3toe, 2axel3toe, superb jump quality and skating quality. The overall field might be quite average at 2012 Worlds but IMO Kostner certainly brought a champion-calibre performance.
Just look back at 2011 Worlds. Both Ando and Kim landed 2 3lutzes in the free skate. Yet, I would still have what Kostner did at 2012 Worlds ahead anyway.
Lepisto is the only other skater from those five Worlds to win a medal of any kind--including the small medals, which were also won by Meissner, Nakano, Nagasu, and Makarova--to have completed just two triple jumps more difficult than the salchow over both phases. I don't want to make too much of it shuffle, especially when there's some mitigation in terms of combination jumping (to say nothing of other difficult elements). Still, that particular lack, combined with the doubling of the planned 3r out of steps makes me more sympathetic to complaints from those who place a heavy emphasis on apparent jump difficulty than I otherwise would be, even as I disagree with this "tendency" about Lepisto's bronze in 2010 and Kostner's title in 2012, both of which I'm fine with.
Re: Suzuki's PCS, particularly vis-à-vis Leonova's: No argument here!
The trouble with that, though, is that the three previous world champions, all have a triple they don't atttempt attempt above the salchow Kim (loop), Ando (flip), Asada (lutz, and salchow at times in her career). Kim simply doesn't need it with the strong 3/3s she does, Asada would never want to repeat her two weakest triples which happen to be the easiest, and Ando (and Kim) both repeat the toe-loop in addition to one of the harder triples. Neither Ando nor Asada attempt 3/3s since they prefer to use loops on the back half and they don't seem to get ratified.
So when I look at all Carolina's predecessors, Kim is the only one, I think that stands out technically on the jumps by a large majority, but when I look at Asada and Ando, I see skaters who struggle with one or more triples themselves and who don't attempt 3/3s, and Kostner who equally struggles with one of the harder triples but does do a 3/3 (albeit two toe-loops) which, for me, evens the score on the harder repeated triple by Ando and Asada. If Asada hits the 3A then I guess she has more wiggle room, however, she hasn't really had much success with it in the past season, so for me they're all pretty much in the same melting pot and I don't get why Kostner is more deserving of criticisms on the difficulty of her jumps than the rest of them (with the notable exception of Kim).
This is all true. I had in mind only the pairs of programs that won each skater their respective World titles; if Kostner's 3t3t offsets just one of a predecessor's harder triples, then Ando in 2007 and Asada in 2008 and 2010 still come out ahead. Even so, I must admit that the example of 2011 Worlds doesn't much help my argument, though the top two both managed to land a triple in each of the SP jumping passes that required it, however imperfectly in Kim's case.
True enough. At this stage, we'll see if Kim and Ando come back and are as strong as they previously were (and hoping Ando repeats the form of 2007 rather than 2011), as for Asada, I hate to say it but I think she's peaked and is on the way down, I don't think she'll clean up the lutz at this stage (and honestly I don't think it's worth it now), and I suspect the triple axel may be a struggle from here on in.
As for Kostner, I saw her land a few triple lutzes in practice at Europeans and she rotated but stepped out of one in the 6 minute warm up prior to the LP there too so I think her plan is to put the Lutz back in at some point (perhaps not in the SP though).
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