Canadian Pairs 2014/2015

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by skatingluver, Apr 19, 2014.

  1. costumerd

    costumerd Member

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    Possible, but no problem, LOL! That is kind of silly when Volosozhar & Trankov plan to be at worlds (and would obviously be favored over D&R), Stolbova & Klimov will be too, and Kavaguti & Smirnov at Skate America were really strong and scored higher than D&R at Skate Canada in the LP without the aid of home ice.
     
  2. kalamalka

    kalamalka Active Member

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    Agree with most of laceup's comments except the "gold or at least silver" for Duhamel and Radford. If V&T are at worlds, it will almost certainly be a battle for placements below them, and there are a few teams that could be in the mix for medals. The rest of the GP and GPF will be interesting.
    The obvious missing pair is Seguin/Bilodeau, who are looking and scoring great so far, and will be senior at and likely after Canadians. There scores at their second JGP would have put them fourth at either SA or SCI, and that's with junior program restrictions.
    Of the new teams, I like the look and potential of Ilukeshina/Moscovitch and Purich/Wolfe. The latter look really happy together and well-matched. Natasha is sparkling again. And between Lubov's lines and lift positions and Dylan's strength and partnering skills, there's a lot to look forward to with that partnership.
    Their twist is still not really there, and it's disappointing that their side by side jumps that were so on when I saw them last season have had errors in all 3 of their internationals. But they do have a lot of strong points and potential.
    Re MTM/M2:
    . ITA. The biggest surprise/disappointment of SCI. He looks so uncomfortable in the lifts - posture, facial expressions, and footwork.
     
  3. costumerd

    costumerd Member

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    I do think D&R can win silver or even gold at worlds perhaps and I like them so it would be awesome if they do. I just don't think it an easy thing or sure bet at this point is all. Even if V&T are there if D&R do all their planned difficulty and even cleaner than Skate Canada, and V&T have mistakes, they could possibly beat them. V&T aren't even sure to be at worlds either. However all the Russian teams are a threat at this point. D&R can beat Stolbova & Klimov and Kavaguti & smirnov, but it also would be silly to dismiss those two teams as legitimate competition either. D&R aren't the most consistent team and don't always skate like they did at Skate Canada, and even if they do both those teams at their best (and yes I know K&S aren't the most consistent team either) can still compete with them and make it a battle.

    I do think worlds is shaping up already to be a 4 team battle this year. 3 Russian teams and D&R fighting it out.
     
  4. mrdmn

    mrdmn New Member

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    Shouldn't there be some sort of warning message for readers before such a statement? A very high risk of injury from extreme eye-rolling. Well-mannered people are especially vulnerable.

    General opinion of some other posts: I'd personally prefer to see greater focus on positive remarks for new teams rather than trying to dispirit them from their fresh paths.

    [First post so hello everybody!]
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2014
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  5. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    I am sure they can. That's why they were beating them the whole last season! :p
     
  6. Rock2

    Rock2 Well-Known Member

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    Hello to you, too!
    Well we all have our wishes for these boards. Personally I'm not convinced they were created for the purpose of raising the self-esteem of the skaters. I know it's nice to be nice but let's not panic if someone makes an observation that isn't complimentary.

    Female skaters do need to maintain a trim but healthy weight in order to do their job properly. That's just fact. I know weight and size comments are sensitive, so we have to ensure we don't suggest they starve themselves or engage in some other unhealthy behavior. That didn't happen here. Kirsten does look a touch bigger than usual to me but that may be due to a loss of training with her recent injury. I don't think there's any big in pointing that out.
     
  7. mrdmn

    mrdmn New Member

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    I'm just hesitant to participate if the purpose is precisely to lower it. I maintain that the only possible 'thickness' on Kirsten is hopefully her skin so she can ignore such remarks. Sadly, many younger, more impressionable skaters or fans may browse these boards to read about their heroes. (Sorry if that sounds a little too 'Think of the children!')

    Eventually, maybe I'll become accustomed to reading such personally disparaging remarks and it becomes somewhat acceptable. I'm hoping for my own sake that doesn't happen.
     
  8. fstroll

    fstroll New Member

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    I don't see it as a problem to point it out either. Her being at the high level that she is at would make her well aware as to what needs to be done in order to maintain her success as she has already been successful with a previous partner at such a high level. Unfortunately, I also see it from your point of view and understand that it can cause issues for a less mature/less educated mind but that's the reality of this sport. Hopefully in that case a coach or parent is able to pick up on it and address the problem if ever it came about.

    As for Kirsten and Mike, I just feel as though they need more time to adapt to each other and that isn't going to come over night. It took Kirsten and Dylan a couple of years to get where they got with plenty of highs and lows along the way. That being said, I think they will put the necessary work in and become something great in time as long as they both stay healthy. That injury of hers didn't help going into their debut at Skate Canada but hopefully they bounce back quickly before the next international.
     
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  9. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    IME, not every online community is right for everyone.
     
  10. mrdmn

    mrdmn New Member

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    In hindsight, if aim of initial comment was to offend, far crueler terminology could have been used. Also, by dwelling on the matter rather than ignoring it, I gave it more prominence on this forum. Moving on…
     
  11. mackiecat

    mackiecat Active Member

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    I feel that Mike is a smaller build than Dylan so perhaps Kristen's size is just an illusion
     
  12. Scrufflet

    Scrufflet Active Member

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    Hello and welcome! Positive comments always welcome, IMO.
     
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  13. googooeyes

    googooeyes Member

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    I think Kirsten looks as great as ever. She's just not as good a match with Michael as she was with Dylan.
     
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  14. olipop

    olipop Member

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    My opinion earlier in this thread was that Kirsten wore some bad outfits. She is impossibly tiny like all top pairs girls, but she has a muscle butt and "short" legs. Whoever does her costumes has to do the skirts right. The long program dress is definitely not flattering from the rear.

    Her stated plans were two more Olympics, so with a new partner is really back in a development phase and if looked at in that light, is about the right place. I'll wait for 2018.

    I like that we have one clear #1 pair, it is easier for international polotik. The goal is a world title for D/R.
     
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  15. Andora

    Andora Well-Known Member

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    Maybe right now, but I think there's potential for them to be a better match. I loved Kirsten & Dylan as a team, but I think stylistically and artistically, they'd run their course. Just look at the fact that both are now doing hand-to-hand lifts with their new partners, when they never were able to pick it up together.

    I'm holding off dumping them until end of the season.
     
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  16. Jenifer

    Jenifer Active Member

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    I thought Kirsten and Michael looked pretty good together for a first competition. I also think we ought to remember that Kirsten is playing the long game here. It's not that she thinks Mike will be a better partner than Dylan would have been in 2015; she's betting that Mike will be a better partner in 2018 and beyond.
     
  17. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    I thought Kirsten and Michael looked good. He's only been a senior for one year and they are still getting used to each other. Dylan is 30 whereas MT and M are only 22, they could really go to two Olympics if they wanted to. They have plenty of time.
     
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  18. victoriajh

    victoriajh Well-Known Member

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    is it an surprise that KMT has bad outfits.... i mean have you seen the wirtz's.....? not really style icons...... this year her dresss are so not good- i liked her sp dress last year it has some spunk in it! but that program was cute too - they have such YAWN programs ..... but i am pretty dissapointed in general with programs this year- nothing is grabbing me....
     
  19. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    It's not surprising that with the same coaches, and with Moore-Towers the more experienced, headline partner, that they would use similar quirky highlight moves (like the quick spread eagles) and music that M-T/M did with Moscovitch. It's a good thing that Moscovitch doesn't have an interest in looking like his old brand with Iliushechkina. The few clips we've seen show them going for a different style.
     
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  20. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    If he didn't have any interest in looking like his old partnership he would have changed the one knee lift he did with his old partner.

    I think they do what they know.
     
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  21. Daniskates93

    Daniskates93 Active Member

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    I'm going to give them a season or two to figure out their own style. They might have stuck with what they know for their first season and will branch out artistically next year when they're more comfortable with each other. Or they might not! Also, I think it's good to note that sometimes skater's don't have a say in their costumes OR music, so personally I try to avoid judging my opinion of a skater or team on either of those things (though sometimes it's hard!). It really depends on the choreographer/seamstress/coach I think.

    I'm excited for the future of both teams and I interested to see how they both progress over the next quadrennial. They both have lots of work to do, but I'm sure they knew that going into their respective partnerships or else they wouldn't have signed up for it! :)
     
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  22. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    I don't think keeping a single element from his old partnership means Moscovitch is trying to copy his old partnership.
     
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  23. victoriajh

    victoriajh Well-Known Member

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    That knee to the ice lift is pretty darn impressive ..... Is want to show it again too!!!
    But I think teams try to establish a signature to set them apart so I'm excited to see what he comes up with !!
     
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  24. rvi5

    rvi5 Active Member

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    The signature knee lift was more associated with Dylan than Kirsten. No other pair guy has attempted it. The lift would often generate awe inspired comments about Dylan's strength from various commentators. It would be a waste if the lift had to be permanently trashed because of a partner switch. The time to eliminate the lift would be, if it eventually becomes too repetitively boring.
     
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  25. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    You can't associate a pair move with one and not the other. They are/were a team. You also can't bash Kirsten for doing the same thing Dylan is doing. Other skaters have done spread eagles too and I'm pretty sure at one time a guy has also done the same entry to a lift, Ladwig maybe?
     
  26. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

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    Sale/Pelletier did a similar entry to their lifts in their exhibition numbers. It began with their Elite Synchopations program, IIRC.
     
  27. rvi5

    rvi5 Active Member

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    Why not? Because that is how you prefer to see it? It was always Dylan who was mentioned by the commentators when performing that move.

    Dylan + Kirsten can perform it. Dylan + Lubov can perform it. Michael + Kirsten can not perform it. What does that tell you?

    You must be talking about someone else?
     
  28. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    It's not just doing spread eagles that's similar: it's the timing and the placement of them in and out of elements, and a certain quirkiness to her timing and style that was unique to M-T/Mv1. That's hardly the only similarity.

    I'm not bashing Moore-Towers for keeping the same style: it's something I would expect since she hasn't changed coaches, and she's the leader on the team. Marinaro is currently a stand-in for Moscovitch, learning the ropes of skating at that level with a partner who was top four at Worlds and Top Five at the Olympics. M-T/Mv2 have taken the approach that they need to make a splash and establish themselves as soon as possible. It's a smart strategy for them.

    While Iliushechkina doesn't have the same record in seniors as M-T, she and Maisuradze were 2nd and 1st at Jr. Worlds, 5th at Europeans, 4th at GPF, and won a few senior events, and she has more senior experience than Marinaro, even if she's had years off from competition. She has a different style, and between visas and getting her release, I/Mv2 are getting a late start to the season. Moscovitch has taken the time to work out a style that suits both of them, not trying to fit her into his old style. That is also a great strategy for several reasons: because they come from different language, cultures, and skating cultures, while Marinaro and Moore-Towers don't, and because Iliushechkina would not be convincing trying to emulate M-T, and female pairs skaters don't have the luxury of being neutral, which Marinaro does until he becomes more comfortable in the partnership.
     
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  29. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    It's not how I ‘choose’ to see it, it's a fact. Unless their choreography was copyrighted, BOTH team members can pick and choose what they want to take away from the partnership. Dylan can do what he wants and Kirsten can do what she wants.

    You think Kirsten can't anything from a past partnership with her new partner because you didn't hear a commentator mention her name but Dylan can because it's "his" move and “it was always Dylan who was mentioned”?

    You need to be careful using words like “no other” and “always” It will bite you in the ass, as with the case of Dylan being the only male pair’s skaters to start a lift on one knee, clearly he wasn’t. So unless you have heard every commentator around the world speak about every skate MT/M had in their careers you wouldn’t know if Kirsten was mentioned at all.

    I agree with Daniskates93 “I'm going to give them a season or two to figure out their own style.”

    It may not matter in couple of seasons anyway when one or both are no longer together.
     
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  30. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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