Canadian Ice Dance 2013/2014: General discussion

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by geoskate, Aug 31, 2013.

  1. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    According to today's press release from Skate Canada, Ralph/Hill are going to skate at NRW.

    The TES minimums for Worlds can be met in the season before or prior season at ISU events and qualifying Senior B's, i.e, ones where there are enough skaters, judges, tech people from enough countries in the discipline, which is most of them. Orford/Williams have not made the TES SD minimum of 28 last season or so far this season. Were they to qualify for the Olympics or 4C's, they'd have a chance to make the score at that event, should they not make it at TEB. Barring injury or disaster, with the Canadians highly unlikely -- or, possibly, on the record -- not sending the Olympic team to 4C's, they should be Top 6 and earn a berth at least at 4C's.

    [ETA: O/W had qualified for Worlds last season, based on their SD TES of 30.64 at 2012 Jr. Worlds, but the 2011-12 season scores dropped off for qualifying this season.]

    The Canadian 4C's team should be quite strong this year.
  2. La La Candy

    La La Candy New Member

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    Have Ralph/Hill met the TES..or is this why they competed in Nice and now the NRW competition? Also, why did they not receive a Grand Prix?

    And, should Gilles/Poirier place 3rd, I assume the 4th place couple will be named to the Olympic team..but then not go to Worlds?
  3. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Ralph/Hill have the 4C's/Olympics TES minimums and the Worlds FS TES minimum, but missed the Worlds SP TES minimum (28) in three tries over the last two seasons: 2012 Nebelhorn (27), 2012 Skate Canada (24.14), and 2013 Coupe de Nice (24.6).

    Last season Ralph/Hill were guaranteed one as #21 on the World Standings list, and Skate Canada, in its infinite wisdom, assigned them a host pick in the initial selection, instead of holding one spot as a TBA and making another Federation give them their guaranteed spot and then assigning them to Skate Canada if they wanted them there. This season, they are #43 on the SB list and were #45 on the WS list and weren't guaranteed anything. With the field limited to eight spots, the only selected teams who were not guaranteed spot(s) were three host picks -- Paul/Islam, Huang/Zheng, Yu/Wang -- and Gilles/Poirier were the only team guaranteed one that got two non-host picks instead of one. The other four teams who were guaranteed one but got a second because their federations were smart enough to leave TBA's for them at the host event, forcing other feds to give them their guaranteed spot, and later assigned them to the host event.

    The bottom line is that they didn't get a spot because Skate Canada didn't give them a host pick.

    It's likely that if G/P qualify for the Olympics but she doesn't get citizenship, the next couple will make the Olympic team, with G/P going to Worlds. Kaitlyn Weaver was granted citizenship in June 2009, long before 2010 Canadian Nationals, and the decision to expedite Gilles' citizenship application or not would be made before 2014 Canadian Nationals. I haven't seen anything stating that Gilles' request was accepted or rejected. It takes legislative action. In their favor is that unlike Weaver/Poje, who moved to Detroit to train, it's unlikely that Poirier would move from where he's in school and from his coaches, and within a year she'll have lived in Canada long enough to have qualified under standard processing. She should be fine for 2018 under standard processing.
  4. rvi5

    rvi5 New Member

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    Also, Piper had enrolled, and is currently attending Ryerson University in Toronto.

    Ryerson is walking distance from the University of Toronto's St. George campus where Paul attends. Ryerson's campus is also across the street from the big Eaton Centre mall...

    Piper, now don't be skipping classes to go shopping. ;)
  5. La La Candy

    La La Candy New Member

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    I was looking at the entries to BC Sectional Championships and noticed in the dance Whitney Miller/Shane Firus are not listed. Does this mean the US has not released her to skate in Canada? Also, Brianna Delmaestro/Timothy Lum are not listed?
  6. thumbyskates

    thumbyskates Member

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    Miller and Firus have split and are no longer skating competitively or looking for new partners. I can't speak to why Delmaestro/Lum are not listed.
  7. La La Candy

    La La Candy New Member

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    I'm very sorry to hear this. We saw them skate at BC summer competition and thought they were lovely. I so enjoyed their short dance. I hope the end of the partnership was mutual/amicable and all the best to these young people in their future endeavors.
  8. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    The rumor I heard is that Whitney was injured and could not keep skating. It is really too bad. They needed more mileage together, but I thought they were off to a great start. I haven't heard anything about Delmaestro / Lum, but I did see her at the rink a week or so ago. Could they just have a bye to Challenge based on their international assignment?
  9. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Had Miller/Firus remained together, they would not have needed a release from USFS to compete at a non-ISU, non-approved international Canadian event. Piper Gilles and Paul Poirier medaled at Canadian Nationals in 2012 before she was released by USFS to skate internationally in the 2012-13 season. 4th place Ralph/Hill went to 2012 Worlds.

    Firus isn't very tall, and it will be harder for him to find a partner, despite his ability.
  10. NorthernDancers

    NorthernDancers New Member

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    I believe Delmaestro and Lum would have a bye to Challenge because of their JGP assignment. The bye option is there, but not always used. I noticed Bent/Mackeen are not listed for Sectionals anywhere. But the Quebec teams with a bye did skate this weekend, and Desveaux/Razgulajevs and Collins/Seymour are listed for Central Sectionals next weekend.
  11. NorthernDancers

    NorthernDancers New Member

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    Dalmer/Firus had a great partnership, and it was sad to see that one end, even though I think it was necessary. When one has had a great partnership, it is sometimes difficult to find that connection again. But I hope he does try. He has great potential. Maybe it means changing the venue entirely, if nothing can be found close to home. Perhaps there is a lovely young lady of a size similar to Marie-France Dubreuil in Quebec? Or even someone in the international community who wouldn't mind making/has already made a skating home in North America somewhere? It's worth the effort if his passion for skating is still there, and the attractions of a normal life haven't taken over.
  12. ~tapdancer~

    ~tapdancer~ Well-Known Member

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    Gilles/Poirer skated an amazing FD at NHK. Easily the most interesting FD of all the Canadian teams. I could watch it over and over, so many wow moments. Amazing comeback from injury, too.
  13. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

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    Are G/P eligible to compete in the Olympics? It could be a very interesting race for that third place.
  14. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Last edited: Nov 10, 2013
  15. ~tapdancer~

    ~tapdancer~ Well-Known Member

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    Well I'm hoping she gets that citizenship and they get the third spot. That FD would be a great one for Olympic audience.
  16. La La Candy

    La La Candy New Member

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    I'm wondering why Edwards/Pang are not skating at Challenge..do they get a bye due to their Junior Grand Prix competitions?

    And I was sad to see Jiang/Miller withdrew.
  17. Daniskates93

    Daniskates93 Active Member

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    They would have to skate Senior this year (because they won junior last year) so all the teams make it to Nationals. They are probably taking the extra time to train their senior programs after skating junior for the first part of the season.
  18. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    What about Delmaestro-Lum?
  19. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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  20. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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  21. marn

    marn New Member

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    I read on another forum that a friend of Piper Gilles posted on her facebook page a congratulations for her upcoming Swearing In ceremony. It was quickly taken down. I would expect that means she is receiving her citizenship and wants to keep it quiet. How did she wrangle that one? Exceptional service to a country??
  22. marn

    marn New Member

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    The favortism shown in the judging of this couple at Canadians has been hard to stomach for the past few years. I am tempted to go to Ottawa just to watch the circus first hand. I cant wait to see who is going to be on the panel, the story will be told at that time. I think it may be a good year to use your ISU level judges SC. Even V/M dont get the same consideration and PCS boosts that G/P have received in the past.
  23. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Through the same provision under which Kaitlyn Weaver got hers in 2009.
  24. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    This year they have a wonderful innovative FS. This was marked very well in competition. I did love PI as well and may the best dancers win.
  25. Corianna

    Corianna Active Member

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    PI and GP are delightful in different ways. I agree with Emdee that GP's free skate is breathtaking. My hope is that one goes to the Oly's and the other to Worlds, and both do well.
  26. Golightly

    Golightly New Member

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    While I like GP's choreography, I cannot say the same about certain parts of its execution. I really hope to see fair judging at Nats, because this is not the third best Canadian team, even if Poirier is a very musical skater. I hope everyone contending for the third spot skates clean and that they are all judged fairly.
  27. girlscouse62

    girlscouse62 Active Member

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    I think GP have the one advantage PI look like they don't have and the judges seem to like... they appear to skate really fast. IMO speed seems to be the major skill in ice dance these days. And it doesn't seem to matter whether the speed actually exists, as long as it looks like it does :wall:
  28. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    The overall quality of PI skating is excellent and they draw you into their programs. They often make mistakes.
    Paul is also making a few mistakes these days. Gilles has much improved especially in the time Poirier was off due to injury. With two months to nationals between their last performance and Nats we will have to see how they are on the day.

    Fair judging is all one wants.
  29. marn

    marn New Member

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    I have seen both these teams this year compete their FD's live. Oddly enough the speed issue is reversed this year. P/I were flying through their FD and G/P were sluggish. G/P's music and choreo was so interesting to watch They dont have quite as many open hold cross cuts this year and therefore they dont have the opportunity to pick up speed. In the past their programms have been light on transitions and heavy on crosscuts thereby appearing faster than others that are actually executing blade skills between their elements. A tactic unfortunately that many Senior dance teams have been resorting to. I am sure some of the slowness was also due to Poirier taking time to get back into form. Choreo is just a small part of what I look for in a team though and honestly that is more of a testament to their choreographer than to the skaters. I need to see the ability of a team to use those blades in every which direction and to see them close together while doing it. Some couples are lucky enough to have the ability to naturally flow around one another and never look awkward. V/M!!! These two teams are both talented and have so much potential as do the next in line U.S. teams. We have some interesting developmental years coming up
  30. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    I saw P&I live twice this year at Thornhill and at Skate Canada and loved them.
    Only saw G&P's program at Cup of Russia on the internet and liked the FD a lot.
    When I saw P&I earlier in the season I thought they would have for sure overtake G&P. But with the fine choreo and music in the FD I dont know.
    Anyway we will have to see how they perform on the day.
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  31. geoskate

    geoskate Well-Known Member

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    Shane Firus is listed on Ice Partner Search. He was skating with Whitney Miller, and there were rumours that she was suffering from some kind of long term injury, IIRC. In any case, whatever the cause, it looks like the partnership is not continuing.

    Also on Ice Partner Search is Stefan Dyck. He was skating with Camille Mondor. They were 14th in novice at last season's Canadians. This season they were skating junior, but did not make it out of Quebec sectionals.
  32. NorthernDancers

    NorthernDancers New Member

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    Great news to see Shane Firus on IPS!! Good to see he's looking to give this another go.

    With the end of Challenge, I guess it is that time of year when we all take stock of the current ice dance situation, at least at Junior and Senior. At Challenge, except for Senior, the ranks were all filled up. 22 pre-novice teams, 18 novice and 22 junior after 1 team withdrew. A strong funnel of great talent!


    Let's start with Senior: all teams will go to Nationals. The whole event was rather underwhelming with so few teams. I've watched a few of these teams over the course of the season so far. Ralph/Hill have perhaps gone back to their "comfort zone" in terms of music and style. I don't see development and progression. I was so excited for them a couple of years ago when I felt they finally had some good material, interesting choreography and a chance to climb the ladder. I just don't see it this season. It's better than last year, but just not good either, IMHO. They have a chance at that 3rd spot if others ahead of them falter, but I'm really not seeing an open path for them. I also think Hasegawa's have not made tremendous improvement year over year. I think they have some speed, but they just don't "wow" me these days. I don't see the joy of skating, the beauty in movement, musicality. It looks like a whole lot of work, a whole lot of elements strung together with decent choreography. They are missing ease and flow and connection, which I would think would be there after so many years together. I did enjoy watching the progression of Cyr/Brisebois. They have good material, good packaging, and they looked like they were having some fun. They were charming. Really the only bright spot in the lot for me, and still are ones to watch for the future. Paradis/Ouellet break your heart every time. Scary fall when they both went down on the lift in the FD. They are very talented, but seem to battle nerves regularly. We'll see how they shine at Nationals? Dumas/Proulx-Senecal are having a solid start to their partnership, although they still look really new. Gadosy/Smyth are having a really tough year. They don't look well-trained and ready yet. I recognize Smyth from previous years. I'm thinking this is a brand new partnership that just needs a lot more time.



    The Junior competition at Challenge was much more exciting. There are some interesting teams in the mix, especially the top 10.

    Bent/MacKeen: SD is good and solid. FD is a cheese-fest. Not a fan, but they do skate it well. They have the flow and ease of a team that has been skating together for a long time. Not sure if their marks should have been that high, but I do think they were #1 here. I really liked their FD last year a whole lot, so this super sweet icky stuff was a little much for me. And I think she needs a different FD dress, not yellow.

    Wu/Soo: REALLY like their SD. My goodness. In my mind, that was the best one of the night. It was beautifully done, beautifully packaged....start to finish wonderful. Their FD was a let down for me. It wasn't as cheesy as Bent/MacKeen, but awfully close. No originality, another "show tune" from BC skated like a speed skating contest instead of ice dance, with trite interpretation and tons of little twirling. 100% predictable. After such a beautiful SD, this team is certainly capable of something much better and more original.

    Soucisse/Tanguay: 2 really solid performances. They look like seasoned professionals this year. They've made some strong improvement, especially him, year over year. LOVE her red dress. I think they deserved 3rd here.

    Delmaestro/Lum: This was not a good outing for this team. The SD was ok. The FD was a hot mess in my opinion. It was really out of control. I think they were a little gifted to find themselves in 4th. I'd take the Mengs with mistakes over this any day. Everything was rushed, and looked like a speed skating contest. So many holds and connections were barely there or missed in the rush to get to the finish. It was really quite awful to watch. This is still a new team. I expect with time they will gel into more of a unit than 2 skaters. He is a very talented skater. He has also grown and matured quite a bit since we saw him more than a year ago. I'm guessing they have another year left at Junior, and they could be quite strong next year.

    Meng's: Of all the teams in the top 5, they are one of my ones to watch. They have a good sense of movement and unison, a musicality about them, and some interesting choreography. They've been a little stagnant in the rankings, and they did not have a clean FD for sure, but I'm thinking part of this may be because they are still quite young, and she has clearly been growing taller. Time is certainly on their side, if they use it well.

    Glavine/Hough: I have not been a terribly big fan of this team. I think they focus on speed over elements, and everything looks more than a little rough, lacking a certain gentleness and finesse between them. That being said, I've seen some real improvement on that front this season, and they chose music that was very appropriate to show that improvement. I don't think either of them are natural dancers, and I question their long-term potential, but I take my hat off to them for showing some real development year over year.

    Collins/Seymour: What a heart-break! They really should be a top 5 team, had it not been for a nasty fall. He looked so shocked to fall on the twizzle! Their SD was very well done, and their FD is a thing of beauty. Probably my favourite FD of all the juniors. But this poor fellow must have grown a foot over the last year, and it looks like he's still getting used to his new height. This team has a lovely look, a musical sense, great packaging and are real dancers. They are choosing interesting and challenging material, and interpreting it well. I really like this team.

    Garabedian/Laliberte: I have to say that Laliberte has never looked so good! A very nice, well matched team. 2 good programs. For a new team, I found them to be very solid, well trained, and fun to watch. They don't really look like a new team.

    Desveaux/Razgulajevs: This is a young team that I feel has been much over-rated (JGP assignment). I think they have some good potential, with some good skating skills, but I think their programs are open, lacking real substance and difficulty, and not always well executed elements. I just think they need some more time to grow up and develop a more mature skating style. I think they are well suited to each other, and they skate with an ease that comes with being partners for a long time, but they are missing "the meat and potatoes".

    Falardeau/Mulder: Another new team....And gorgeous. They seem to have missed the first part of the season, so it's been a surprise to see them on the scene, and doing better with every competition. These 2 belong in the same category as the Mengs and Seymour/Collins in terms of quality and style. They are extremely well suited to each other physically, just beautiful to look at, with elegant long lines, smooth skating, and real musicality. They are both dancers. Some great skating skills, and strong elements. They looked just a little careful/slower. When they stepped out for the SD, I thought I was looking at Kaitlyn Weaver. Their FD is a work of art. I think they have potential to move up the ranks by Nationals if they continue to improve like they have been, and the judges now know these 2 a little more, certainly in more consistent and higher PCS.
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  33. Daniskates93

    Daniskates93 Active Member

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    What a great post NorthernDancers! I have to agree with you about Collins/Seymour's FD. When I saw it at Minto in the summer I literally could not stop talking about it. It is so subtle and beautiful.
  34. googooeyes

    googooeyes New Member

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    Northerndancers- you are right on the money with all these teams!
    The next quad will be interesting as they start to feed into the senior ranks.
  35. The Observer

    The Observer New Member

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    Those American Ice Dance girls like moving to Canada and snagging Canadian boys, don't they? ;) First Kaitlyn taking Andrew, and now Piper taking Paul. ;)

    I'm glad that Piper Gilles got Canadian citizenship today. She and Paul have been working very hard for the past couple years to get into contention for the Olympic team. They haven't achieved the high levels yet that Crone & Poirier had, but they've done well in adapting to a new partnership, and I give Poirier credit for working hard to get back on the ice after that terrible ankle injury. They had 2 pretty good GP performances this season - not perfect, but very good considering the lost training time from injury.

    I'm hoping they will win the 3rd ice dance spot in January, but Paul & Islam have a good shot at it too. With Weaver & Poje back at Nationals this year, I don't think Orford & Williams will be able to get to the podium this time, but anything is possible!
  36. blueglass

    blueglass New Member

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    It was a little sad hearing Carol Lane talk about one of G&P's unique lifts, saying that Paul and his former partner had invented it. It struck me that they're really remaking Gilles into Crone in this particular FD.

    Has Vanessa Crone quit trying to find a partner? I had hopes of seeing her compete again.
  37. piano18

    piano18 New Member

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    And neither girl is particularly great :wall: Vanessa Crone was a better skater than both:(
  38. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    We get to see a lot of Wing/Lowe's teams at BC Summerskate, and one of the things I've noticed about them is that they go into attack mode, with not much modulation or nuance. I was hoping that as they season wore on, and they became more comfortable with the programs, that they would bring some ease, but from NorthernDancers' description, at least some of them have not :(
  39. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't say Vanessa was a better skater than both because as there were issues with her skating as well that didn't seem to be addressed -- such as her posture.
  40. piano18

    piano18 New Member

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    Vanessa's basic skating was much better. Deep, soft edges none of the other two had.
    Kaitlyn Weaver's posture back then wasn't good either (IMO, it's just so-so now). Weirdly, Kaitlyn Weaver reminds me of the ice dance equivalent of Qing Pang with dance training. Although W&P as a team have good lines.
    Gilles's skating is far behind the two. She may look more presentable on the ice. Crone & Poirier IMO had much better lines on the ice by far. (IMO Christopher Dean's choreo looks better on Crone & Poirier than Gilles & Poirier partly for this reason).
    Although I love G&P's FD this year, and don't mind to see it in Sochi.

    Edit: With the exception of the Mary Poppins SD, I think Crone & Poirier could skate all of Gilles & Poirier programs much better (and look better IMO).
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2013