Can Bobrova & Soloviev make the podium at the 2014 Olympics?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Maofan7, Mar 28, 2013.

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What medal if any will Bobrova & Soloviev win at the 2014 Olympics

Poll closed Apr 28, 2013.
  1. Gold

    4 vote(s)
    4.0%
  2. Silver

    1 vote(s)
    1.0%
  3. Bronze

    67 vote(s)
    67.0%
  4. No medal

    28 vote(s)
    28.0%
  1. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Away

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    New article on Bobrova & Soloviev. Reads:-

    They won the Bronze at this years Worlds. Can they also make the podium at their home Olympics next season? What would they need to do to make up ground on V&M and D&W and challenge for the Gold?
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2013
  2. rainbowkisses

    rainbowkisses Banned Member

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    i wouldn't be surprised if they win the whole thing
  3. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    but isn't there a bronze curse ? ;)

    I voted for Stepanova/Bukin which was none :p
  4. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    No way they will get anything higher than bronze and the Canadians, French and Italians will be hell bent on getting there themselves.
  5. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    C/l beat them in the fd at worlds and are surely more likely to do well than b/s.
  6. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    If that were true they would have won the broze at worlds.

    C/L beat B/S by less than a point in the fd, so the sd buffer was good enough for B/S to take the broze. If they beat them once at worlds they can for sure do it at the Olympics. A little over 5 points seperates 3rd thru 7th so anything can happen next season.
  7. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    Just like how C&L and I&K beat B&S at worlds last year, which surely meant they would do better at worlds this year.

    Oh right. :lol:

    I would say it's 70/30 or so. They're progressing technically, they're more consistent, and they seem to be in good hands with Zhulin. Plus, the event will be in their country, which may not really help, but it won't hurt. They have a lot going in their favor.

    Unless B&S come out really strong at the start of the next season and pull away from the pack on the PCS and inch closer to D&W and V&M, mostly it's going to come down to who gets the best combo of PCS and high levels between B&S,P&B,C&L, W&P, and I&K. Pretty much just like this year.
  8. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    They can medal, but I'm not sure they will. I think they'll get the PCS now as Euro champions and world medalists (at the end of the day it's the medal that is remembered and I&K beating them in the FD at Euros and C&L doing so at Worlds will be forgotten). P&B seem to have been thoroughly dumped. Even if the judging at Worlds was legit, I think the establishment has been waiting for a reason to push them back down and it's going to be difficult to make up that ground. P&B aren't totally out of it, but I think they'll be one of those couples that are in the mix, but not considered the clear third as they were the last couple of years.

    B&S are not consistent though, and I could imagine them struggling with levels or making unfortunate mistakes and missing out.
  9. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    The fact of b/s losing the fd to c/l and being 4th in the fd shows a fact about their skating which is that their pretty weak technically even now so you can't say they are in a good place when they virtually always lose the fd to another team even if they best them overall. That's a weakness that I don't think would lead to a medal at the Olympics. Their technical weaknesses persist and pcs can't always be used to bail them out. Their bronze would be stronger if they really won their way to it like being a strong third in the fd. The fact of the medal may help them in pcs and goe on elements they do do well sometimes but doesn't change the fundamental and persistent weaknesses of the team.
  10. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    They made technical mistakes that hurt the TES. Considering that their programs were nothing special and weren't even skated that great, the fact that the PCS were almost the same as B&S doesn't say dumped to me.

    This is just like B&S last year when they placed 7th and people were immediately placing them off the Russian National team for the following season because losing points on technical stuff by the tech panel equals "dumped" by the judges now for some people, even if the judges gave them PCS that indicate otherwise.

    I think people are still in a 6.0 mindset, back when there was a huge deal to where you placed, even down to one spot. I don't think it's quite like that anymore.

    If V&M or D&W made a bunch of errors and lost to B&S, no way would I consider B&S a favorite over either of those teams now.
    As with pretty much everyone in the 3-7th area.
  11. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    Yes, they can make the podium at the Olympics. Will they? Tough to say - bronze is a catfight between four teams imo.
  12. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    I hope they do. But I worry that they will continue to struggle with levels. Nonetheless in super excited to see what Zhulin comes up with!
  13. sequins

    sequins New Member

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    It's definitely gonna be a battle for bronze and will depend what happens on the day. They are 1 of only 2 or 3 teams this year whose FD I really liked. They will have home ice advantage so it'll be interesting to see if that plays a part, but I feel like Russian would prefer it if it was I/K if they could ever get their act together. I'm actually really interested to see how next years Worlds (assuming D/W, V/M and P/B don't compete) pans out.
  14. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    No chance at gold or silver. They can win bronze but so can Capellini & Lanotte or Weaver & Poje (I cant see Pechalat & Bourzat getting it but I am sure some think they have a chance too). I have a feeling one of C&L or W&P will get the bronze instead TBH.
  15. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I agree they werent dumped at this years Worlds, they simply didnt skate well and were somewhat generously scored for how they skated. However I predict this coming season they will be dumped, and their low finish at Worlds gives the judges an easy opportunity to do so.
  16. PeterG

    PeterG Argle-Bargle-ist

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    They will win the bronze, but hopefully there won't be too many falls. But it doesn't really matter.
    kwanette and (deleted member) like this.
  17. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Their best chance is for a bronze, but I won't be surprised if they did not medal at all. They will have to wait until V&M and D&W retire, in order to win a medal at the Olympics. I was happy that they won he bronze at this year's worlds, but that does not make them favorites for a bronze next year.
  18. nuge

    nuge Well-Known Member

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  19. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    I think the best B/S can hope for is bronze. They can't beat D/W and V/M. However, I voted no medal because I think P/B will likely take the bronze. They didn't skate like their usual selves at this past Worlds, for obvious reasons.
  20. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I would give the bronze odds of the team for next year at this point:

    Bobrova & Soloviev- 40%
    Weaver & Poje- 27%
    Capellini & Lanotte- 23%
    Pechalat & Bourzat- 8%
    Chock & Bates- 1.5%
    All others combined- 0.5%
  21. IceIceBaby

    IceIceBaby New Member

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    Yes, they will get the bronze. This is after all ice dance, Olympics and Russia.
    kwanette and (deleted member) like this.
  22. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    So how do you explain them getting the bronze at worlds in Canada?
  23. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    Out of curiosity, why do you give W&P so much higher a chance than P&B?

    Also, if I&K actually get their shit together and have good programs (yes I know, two big "ifs"), why wouldn't they be a factor? Even with their shitty FD they almost won Euros when they skated it well. It seems like when they actually deliver, the judges go for it. I don't see that changing next year.
  24. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    As much as I love P/B and as much as I think they'll fight like hell next season, I think they're toast given current ice dance politics. Honestly, everyone already knows who's going to be on the podium and what the order will be. They could mail the medals out tomorrow if they wanted to.
  25. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Golver is like VMDW but bronze is anybody's!!!
  26. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Weaver & Poje had a much worse injury and were in a far more difficult situation to even make it to Worlds than P&B and they still outskated them and beat them. P&B have benefited the last year and half from some protocal/ranking judging but now having dropped to 6th at Worlds, even if not skating at their best, and a bunch of younger teams now ranked higher than them, I see their PCS dropping down in relation to the other teams and them starting to be dumped somewhat, even when they return to top form.

    As for I&K I think this year was their window to try and take over the Russian #1, and it was kind of open for this year, but after B&S winning a medal at Worlds and I&K having a horrible result at Worlds (finishing behind the Shibutanis, lol) I think they will have to wait until after Sochi to even have a chance at challenging for the Russian #1 position again.
  27. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    Have they? I'm trying to think of the events they skated in in the past year and a half where it was clear they were getting results they shouldn't be and I'm drawing a blank.

    As for I&K, I just can't see if I&K actually deliver, them being stuck behind techincally inferior teams (IMO of course) like W&P and C&L.
  28. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    I personally love Bobrova and Soloviev and think that it would be amazing for them to get to experience being on the podium in Sochi. I think that another year with Zhulin will make them improve even more. They are such hard workers, and this seems like a very promising partnership.
    Personally I think that they are much better than CL who I find pretty bland both on TV and live. I do think that Pechalat and Bourzat are better skaters than them right now, but that may change after more time with Zhulin.
  29. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Many thought W&P skated better than P&B at the 2012 Worlds, and almost all certainly felt they had the stronger OD there (FD is debateable) but they even finished a couple points below in that phase. The GPF last season even more felt W&P were stronger. This season I wouldnt say P&B had any wrong results but the PCS gap on the ones behind them was a bit on the generous side. Either way I have a feeling their scores next season will be more on the stingy side than the generous side, lets put it that way. The next generation are moving in, a Russian team is now ranked 3rd in the World in a year before the Olympics will be in Russia, and I dont see the judges being enthusiastic about giving any help to an aging team who will never be a remote challenge to the likes of V&M and D&W, and who were 6th at the recent Worlds, with all the interesting younger teams who will be around over the next quad, now making their move. Their PCS at Worlds were right in line with B&S and a notch above the others I mentioned, but next year I have a feeling their PCS will not be on par with B&S, and more likely in line with C&L and W&P (or even a notch behind W&P depending how much they improve with a healthy off season and better programs). We will see though.

    As for I&K in what way are they superior to W&P. OK I admit I am a fan of W&P and I think they have been slightly on the side of being screwed over in their careers (eg- all those defeats to Crone & Poirier even when C&P made mistakes, losing to the Shibutanis at the 2011 Worlds which was ridiculous), but I cant remember a time where W&P have finished behind I&K in competition yet. I&K also arent what I would call a technically especialy strong team. If anything their real strength is in PCS, and it often helps their placings in competitions where they compare more favorably to their opponents than they usually do in TES. If they were such a technically strong team they wouldnt be making as many mistakes and struggling with the twizzles so often. As for C&L they are actualy improving and getting better all the time, while I&K have been mostly stuck in a rut and trying to find ways to improve but not coming up with any good answers since they left the junior ranks.
  30. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    Ah. See, I didn't at all. I thought P&B were solidly third thanks to their superior skating skills and a better constructed FD. (I always found that the construction and flow of W&P's FD started falling apart about halfway through, not to mention the over relying on the vocals for the IN) So I don't look at those PCS and see protocol at all. We'll have to just agree to disagree on that one.
    *At their best*, deeper edges, how easily speed is gained per push of the blade, better run to the blade and ice coverage, body line and quality of positions, etc.

    Consistency is their problem.
    Eh, the Shibs can twizzle consistently with the best of them. I wouldn't consider them any stronger than a lot of the teams they regularly twizzle better than.
    I agree with that. But I'm in the camp that thought P&B still should have won bronze even with the fall, so...
  31. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    Just as judgejudy27, I don't see were they are technically superior than those teams. Unlike especially C/L they have regularly failed to get good levels on their step sequences and SD sequences, they often have problems with their twizzles, and their lifts are not all that great. Of course, skating skills are also technique, but they are not a significant part of TES (they are only somewhat reflected in step sequence GOEs), more of PCS. And, to tell the truth, that's the only advantage that they have. Their transitions are not the best, they skate quite far apart, Ilinykh's posture is also not ideal, and I don't think that their interpretation, or their overall execution and performance is truly better than C/L's and W/P's (although judge's marks may sometimes say otherwise).


    I am not sure about "almost all" at all - I don't remember reading that many comments on this board that definitely said that W/P's SD (not OD ;)) was better. And if some people didn't like P/B's SD, then it had more to do with the concept of the dance, not with execution. P/B had a mistake in twizzles, but W/P had one level less in their rumba sequences. And higher PCS is understandable, since apparently P/B's skating skills are still better than W/P's (I am not such an expert, but so the more knowledgeable people say). As for the FD - people feeling that W/P were stronger may have had more to do with them liking that FD better than P/B's. It's true that at Worlds W/P had a higher technical base value - P/B closed the gap with the help of GOEs, and won the FD over W/P with the help of PCS. True, the gap in PCS could have been smaller, but that wouldn't have helped W/P to get the bronze.
  32. zerom10

    zerom10 New Member

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    Most likely for silver, but colud be gold. Very talented team for sure.
  33. IceIceBaby

    IceIceBaby New Member

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    Well, of course the politicking has already started. Already in their SD they received very generous PCS, so the judges clearly wanted them to medal. I think that even if P/B had skated better, B/S still would have won with a small margin.
    Ice dance results are the easiest to manipulate and Team Russia only have V/T as a sure podium lock. So they definitely need more medals (especially if their President is so obsessed with figure skating), I would bet a lot of money for B/S's bronze. Don't you remember what happened in Vancouver in ice dance?
  34. elif

    elif Active Member

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    Sorry but ice dance judging makes sense to me more than 2013 men, pairs and ladies competitions. I don't think Bobrova/Soloviev's medal results of the politicking. They have a good, original free dance, clean elements, very good skating skills. To me ice dance not just politicks anymore.

    Like Zhiganshina-Gazsi and Bobrova-Soloviev, I think ISU judges wants to see original/interesting programs. If next year they came up with a good program, why not?
  35. nuge

    nuge Well-Known Member

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    Denkova/Staviski were dumped down to fifth in 05 then had an exceptional chance at olympics with a fabulous CD but then messed up in the OD :( bronze could well have been theirs even silver .They of course won two world's after that so anything can happen .:p
  36. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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    This is pretty much how I feel.
  37. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Any medal that wanst gold was treated as a huge loss so bronze for b/s like bronze for d/s wouldn't mean anything.
  38. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    Can you see I/K delivering? Seriously, I'm curious.

    In terms of getting levels, C/L and W/P are certainly better. That W/P trounced them on levels this year with the lack of preparation speaks to that. C/L have gotten straight level fours before and under Shpilband will certainly be a force there.

    You mention I/K's technical superiority, but it's worth pointing out that"*At their best*, deeper edges, how easily speed is gained per push of the blade, better run to the blade and ice coverage" is actually a fairly narrow component - Skating skills and some choreography in there. So even marked fairly and cleanly, that aspect won't gain them a whole heck of a lot over W/P (over C/L, probably).

    I thought B/S deserved the bronze this year, fwiw.
  39. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    I think it's different for BS because DS were reigning world champions. BS are only reigning bronze medallists. (Although so were Virtue and Moir)
  40. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    It's gold or nothing! Silver Bronze medals were won by a handful in 2010 but they only counted the three golds as successes. you succeed with gold or you fail. Sure all the medal winners got some recognition from the government but only because they were going by what the Olympics consider worthy.