Can Artur Gachinski now move on to become Russia's top Men's singles skater?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Maofan7, Apr 2, 2013.

Can Artur Gachinski become Russia's top Men's singles skater?

Poll closed May 3, 2013.
  1. Yes

    19 vote(s)
    30.2%
  2. No

    34 vote(s)
    54.0%
  3. Don't know

    10 vote(s)
    15.9%
  1. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Member

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    Given Artur Gachinski's recent upturn in form, can he now use this as a platform from which to become Russia's top Men's singles skater and fulfil the promise he showed when winning a Bronze medal at 2011 Worlds? He certainly has the ability, but problems of various kinds have held him back over the last 2 years. Has he though now turned the corner?
     
  2. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    It's too early to tell. I would love to see Artur realize his potential.
     
  3. DimaToe

    DimaToe Well-Known Member

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    Too soon to know. I believe that he and Kovtun will be able to become more solid competitors post Sochi. With another talented Russian man now in the picture it won't easy for Artur to be Russias #1, But I think that if he and Maxim start an on ice rivalry it would push them to achieve great results heading into 2018 and bring back a Russian men's field that is competitive internationally.
     
  4. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    We need a "back off him" option.

    Come on guys, the poor guy has only just managed to skate two clean programs for the first time in over a year. Let's let him focus on rebuilding himself before we get into the "next big thing" stuff. I, for one, would be more than happy just to see him go through next season skating clean and landing his jumps. He's young enough that 2018 is an option.

    And DimaToe: Not everyone responds to an on-ice rivalry in the same way.
     
  5. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe, too soon to tell. He has the ability to though
     
  6. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    It's too early and not to be negative about his skating at the event he just won but he singled a jump so I don't think singling can happen in a "clean" skate. So he's putting quads and 3a's together and not falling so that's good but it's early. Look how fast he can go from silver at euros to 18th at worlds. Same thing with kovtun who gachinski best at Russian nationals. Has a euros free skate of some quality then falls doubles and singles jumps at worlds and places 17th. With skaters of this level of inconsistency menshov could be Russian champion again as he can beat both no problem. Now menshov may retire after 2014 but maybe voronov will continue. With no plushenko, menshov or voronov competing at a Russian nationals maybe they will become the top 2 or maybe zhan bush will? Or if not zhan Bush than mikhail kolyda. It's wide open!
     
  7. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    Zhan Bush, Voronov the standards are so low
    also the junior who won Triglav is also promising
     
  8. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Too many no votes! He can't be number 1 in Russia at any point from 2014 to 2018?? Lol of course he can. He was 4th in 2013!!
     
  9. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    Yes, he can.
     
  10. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    I don't think anyone can answer the question ''yes" or "no", maybe "too early to tell" would be more appropriate at this point in time? The more so as I wouldn't call Gachinski's total score of 210 at his most recent competition a real upturn in his career. It would help Gachinski a lot if he had stronger components in his bag because the jumps don't always work. Under 67 on the second mark seems pretty low for a free skate with one quad, two triple axels and no falls if we think that Yuzuru Hanyu can score by even ten points higher on PC even when he bombs and Yuzuru often struggles through his long program. I know Gachinski won't be competing with Hanyu for Russia's man no.1:lol: but just wanted to point out an area where Artur would need some serious improvement IMO.
     
  11. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    Donno. He seems to have stagnated for whatever reasons and if that continues, it may be quite unlikely that he will get out of the doldrums which is unfortunate as he was very promising in 2011. Hope he sorts out his problems and get back into form. Otherwise, he is no where near Hanyu (most likely the one to beat post Sochi) in the future.
     
    Maofan7 and (deleted member) like this.
  12. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    I agree. But Hanyu is not that consistent, and if Gachinski skates clean, he can be good enough.
    I think part of the problem is confidence. I have the feeling that Gachinski needs more support, to be more confident, and more consistent. Or is it just me transferring my own fears. I wouldn't like to be a russian male skater actually. :)
     
  13. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    Certainly not easy when compared to the Russian greats like Yagudin and Plushenko! Not easy for Gachinski not easy for any upcoming male skaters! Maybe that's the PROBLEM ... to be always expected to step into the shoes of Yagudin or Plushenko.
     
  14. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    That and I think the "you had one bad competition, YOU'RE DUMPED YOU'RE WORTHLESS YOU LET THE WHOLE COUNTRY DOWN" rhetoric doesn't help either...

    I notice Kovtun is suspiciously free of blame. Perhaps who your coach is makes a difference as to how much pressure is dumped on you.
     
  15. morqet

    morqet Well-Known Member

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    Well, the expectation levels were different. Gachinski bombed at Worlds the year after winning a medal & coming off a medal at Europeans, Kovtun was in his second ever senior international event.

    I'm not sure if Gachinski can really get to the top internationally. Leaving aside his current jumping issues I don't think he's got the skating skills or interpretation of Hanyu or Fernandez & I doubt he'll really develop in those areas under Mishin. In Russia however, he & Kovtun should be battling it out to be top man - Pluskenko, Voronov & Menshov will all probably retire after Sochi and there doesn't seem to be anyone coming up behind Kovtun & Gachinski who can threaten them at the moment.
     
  16. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    I don't see Gachinski posting a score of 95+ in the short program like Hanyu even if he (Gachinski) were at the top of his game. But I feel Gachinski would have been right up there with Fernandez by now if he had made steady progress instead of actually regressing since 2012 Europeans.

    I found Mikhail Kolyada to be quite a promise in some respects when I saw him earlier this season. Kolyada has good speed, he can skate multi-directionally, he can skate on one foot and he can jump with transitions. But Kolyada would need the quadruple jump in both of his programs for the judges to take him into account for the national title. And a bit better packaging as well.
     
  17. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Gachinski has already beaten kovtun at Russian nationals. He doesn't have to be competitive with hanyu or Fernandez to beat kovtun. If gachinski continues to beat kovtun at Russian nationals he can do so without being competitive with fernandez and hanyu. And if gachinski is beating kovtun it surely means he isn't competitive with hanyu and Fernandez so why would russia continue to support kovtun?
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2013
  18. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps the fed learned there lesson. It appeared TAT was quite angry with Kovtun at Worlds though, albeit in a motherly way. But much like Gatchinski last season, Kovtun had been strong all season leading up to Worlds where he faltered, after seeing what happened to Gatchinski's skating and confidence after all the schlack he got last season for bombing at Worlds, despite the Euro silver and World bronze the year before, and considering the age of Menshov, injury of Plush, and lukewarm international showings of Voronov, maybe the Fed was like "Oh shit, we don't want to ruin another teenager's confidence and potentially career by pulling the mean card again." That is my best guess as to what happened. Giving Gatchinski the cold shoulder just made things worse, so why would they risk doing the same thing with Kovtun?
     
  19. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Kovtun wasn't strong all season! That was the controversy of even sending him to euros. At russian nationals he lost to plushenko, voronov, menshov and gachinski! Then in the euros short he did a double axel. Zayaked in the fs. His worlds performance was always possible because of his senior skating. His jr skating was good but at seniors wrong turn!
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2013
  20. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    Which is all very nice but doesn't help Gachinski who was browbeaten and dumped on and criticised and harangued after Worlds...and saw Voronov and Kovtun get away with it scot-free.

    In fact, it's probably done even MORE damage to Gachinski's psyche, seeing Kovtun get away with it, and knowing that he beat Kovtun at Nationals even when he was skating like rubbish.

    I wonder if the RuFed looked at the USFSA and regretted what they did. USFSA could have sent Joshua Farris to 4CCs, pushed the transition to Senior like they did with Kovtun, but instead they let him fulfil his wish to go and win the Junior World Championship. Had the RuFed sent Kovtun to JWC, who knows what would have happened? Kovtun would have been pretty well guaranteed a medal.
     
  21. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Kovtun was pretty good at Euros IMO, maybe not amazing but his scores were strong and he hit his quad in the SP and two in the FS along with two 3a. And while I feel bad about how Gatchinski was treated last season...two wrongs don't make a right. Kovtun doesn't deserve that kind of treatment and neither did Gatchinski last season. And I'm not sure skaters wishes are taken into consideration when making assignments. Farris may have wanted to go to 4CC and wasn't given the option, and maybe Kovtun wanted to go to JW but after doing well at Euros the Fed decided he was the best hope for senior Worlds and would be going there instead. Kovtun did not send himself to Euros or Worlds and my guess is USFS did not give Farris or Hicks the option to compete at 4CCs...
     
  22. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    Maybe it was a blessing in disguise that the Federation didn't pick Gachinski to go to Canada because just imagine what he would have felt like and how it would have reflected upon him at home if he had had a new failure at Worlds - the second season in a row - and judging by how he scored at his latest competition, he wouldn't have finished much higher than Kovtun in London. At least Gachinski now shares the "blame" with Kovtun. lol And it might have done good to Gachinski's psyche though to leave that competition, the name of which I can't remember, with the gold medal round his neck, even if it was a small competition. Sometimes all the worst is for the better.
     
  23. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Sending kovtun to jwc would have been better. Who says it's good for kovtun to have such an awful performance at seniors worlds? Being pushed for something he didn't earn and then fails at in a spectacular way. But he was actually good in Jrs. Now he has this awful performance as part of history where he failed at everything. He neve showed any indication he was ready for seniors.

    Gachinski beat him at 2013 nationals and it didn't matter because the federation was all about a belief that kovtun was amazing so it could be a good rivalry. Is there a point where kovtun beats gachinski and/or actually earns a trip to euros or worlds?
     
  24. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    I guess all we can hope for next year is that if Plushenko's body does not hold out the selection for Sochi is going to be fair and objective and everyone gets an equal shot.

    Yeah, dreaming, I know. But then maybe after the scrutiny and criticism of their selection policies this year, Russia will be a tad more careful next year.
     
  25. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I would like to see Voronov make it to the Olympics considering it was ridiculous he wasnt sent in 2010. As for Gachinski being up with Fernandez at his best I highly doubt that. Gachinski did skate his very best at the 2012 Europeans and was crushed by an old Plushenko (who did skate very well mind you, as did Gachinski). However Fernandez from this years Europeans for instance would have almost certainly beaten the Plushenko of even the 2012 Europeans. Fernandez has his imperfections, but the things he is weak in are all things Gachinski lacks as much or more. I cant think of a single thing Gachinski at his best would do better, and he is obviously less consistent of the two too.
     
  26. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    To be the top Russian man he doesn't have to be better fernandez. I don't get why Fernandez and hanyu entered this topic? No one in Russia is as good as Fernandez that has a future after 2014 right now!
     
  27. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    That is true but I am sure Russia would like to see their next #1 be competitive with people like Fernandez and Hanyu, and it is probably upsetting to them that person isnt really there yet.
     
  28. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    It probably is! But is the point that because gachinski and kovtun have failed that they will never have the federation support to be he number one man? Especially with gachinski? So like even if gachinski beats kovtun again it wouldn't matter? He's never Going to worlds ever again? and if a skater next season in the jrgpf has a season like kovtun did- say kolyda that they would become number one even if they come in fifth at nationals like kovtun? I just feel it is very very possible gachinski can be Russian champ! Maybe even beat kovtun at euros maybe.
     
  29. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Apr 6, 2013
  30. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    It's a little hard to tell, because of the angle of the photo and also Artur is standing further back than Plushy, but just on the face of it (and also "measuring" them with my fingers) Artur does indeed look a LOT taller than Plushy, which definitely was not the case last season. (Plushy also has his head tilted down in the photo, but not enough to make a difference, IMO).

    Although, lala, I don't think "growth failure" is the word you're looking for :) A failure would imply that he didn't grow. A growth "spurt" is what has happened. Mishin did mention a "second adolescence" during the season so I wonder if he went all mopey teenager again. You know, with that kind of - hormonal imblanace? - I can't quite find the right words, but reverting back to an early-teen mentality rather than an adult's.