Cain/Reagan split

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by fan, Feb 24, 2012.

  1. mineko

    mineko New Member

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    ITA!! Best of luck to Caitlin, Josh, and Ashley. Hope Caitlin & Josh work out. Can't wait to hear from them.
     
  2. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    I have no idea whether Cain can handle both, but I don't have to talk about skating to know that Reagan has the "right" to decide that he wants a partner who will concentrate on Pairs, since that was his official reason, not speculation. (I can speculate whether this was really the case, but that's something different.) He has the right to decide, whether or not I think his reason is credible.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2012
  3. sk8ers

    sk8ers New Member

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    Spot on an thoughtful assessment.

    And:
    Many factors aside from this go in to developing successful pair teams. But you are right: we allow the boys to whine and take an "easier" path and demand low weight from girls. Or just choose a "pre-pubescent" girl short term. Pair girls may swing 3-5 pounds because MOST women do!! And the stronger girls may "weigh" more on a scale because muscle weighs more than fat. Its a complex situation for sure!
     
  4. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    ^ interesting, definitely food for thought.
     
  5. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    Just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean their points aren't valid or have merit.

    You are 100% right, it's not just about the man trowing a lady up into the air. She must have her legs at the proper angle in the air, rotate at the proper speed and know when to open up. Both the man and lady bear their own responsibility for the twist.

    Muscle doesn't weight more than fat; muscle is more dense but a pound is a pound.
     
  6. numbers123

    numbers123 Well-Known Member

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    followed by this post of numbers:

    As for the comment that no one took up this challenge
    My response didn't say that we have any evidence, it was my personal opinion. In fact, I don't know if it did, so I didn't attempt to answer that one. I saw performances through IceNetwork and have admitted in past that I am nothing more than a skating fan. Are personal opinions not allowed?

    Listing skaters that I knew who chose one discipline over another didn't imply personal knowledge of what the motivation was for the decision, it was a simple statement.

    And finally, I repeated that we do not know and that when a decision involves a partnership, it makes things more complicated. Not that I had any knowledge of what happened or knowledge of why she could or could not compete in both. Just my personal opinions. When I referred to discussions, I should have said "from the discussions on this thread" not any personal knowledge of what might have been said on either side of the fence.
     
  7. sk8ers

    sk8ers New Member

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    Juliann you are absolutely right--a pound is a pound. Just seemed quicker than a long dissertation re: if the girls don't have a lot to lose and have lean body mass than the scale may not change as much or a rapidly as someone who has more to lose than the 2-4 lb swing we were suggesting. Those girls with more lean muscle may weigh 110 but look smaller than a girl at 110 with more fat as the fat is bulkier.

    Whatever the "magic number" is that a coach may think a girl should be or a boy wants to lift, other factors such as BMI may play a part IMO---meaning let's stay open minded and maybe more teams could form. You never know!! ;)
     
  8. johndockley92

    johndockley92 New Member

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    Anybody hear about any tryouts ashley has had yet?
     
  9. winterone

    winterone Banned Member

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    Ashley is an amazingly talented skater.Honestly, She does have an up hill climb to find the right partner for pairs.

    It's well documented that she want's to do pairs and singles. Strike One. Any talented committed pairs guy will see this as a negative. Committment to this sport is hard enough without both partners spending time on the same goal.

    Partnering with Ashley will require the guy to move to Dallas. Strike Two. Her coaches are her parents, David Kirby is amazing but this is not a pairs center like Colorado Springs or Ellenton. Talented Pairs guys would have reservations about the possible conflict of interest, Parents as Coaches IMO.

    Ashley has amazing technical and skating skills, She is TALL, Strike Three. Most guy's looking for partners would prefer not to look up into the eyes of the Girl pair. That limits her to very few guys and the other barriers exist (see strike one-two) So here is my short list, Drum roll, Jeremy Abbott (just kidding) the three I see on the radar are: Wesley Campbell, Tim Le Duc, Danny Oshea.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2012
  10. johndockley92

    johndockley92 New Member

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    David Kirby Is no longer working with Ashley, as he is sticking with Josh instead, strangely. That talent pool is not very strong for her to choose from. Wouldn't be surprised if she found a partner from another country.
     
  11. MacMadame

    MacMadame Cat Lady-in-Training

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    Parents as coaches are a double-edge sword. Yes, there are negatives, but there are positives too. For one thing, you can probably get as much of their time as you need and they will probably be much more flexible on fees assuming they even charge the guy any at all.
     
  12. NarumiAyane

    NarumiAyane New Member

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    Wasn't she contemplating competing for Australia at one time, as her dad is from there (not sure of her mother)?
     
  13. winterone

    winterone Banned Member

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    It's funny to hear that she may compete for Australia. After all they have tons of 6' 190 pound pairs skaters there who have all there triples.
     
  14. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Well, maybe as a singles skater she might get some opportunities going that route.
     
  15. Oz_sk8ting_mum

    Oz_sk8ting_mum New Member

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    And there is NO funding, you have to fund everything yourself if you compete internationally &#128542;.
     
  16. jjane45

    jjane45 Active Member

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    Is the funding amount significant at all compared to what the athlete's family pays out of pocket? It's not like the US federation completely funds her skating expenses.
     
  17. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    But does she (or any other high level skater who qualifies for funding as both a single and part of a pair), get double the funding money from USFS?
     
  18. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    Doesn't it depend upon how many envelopes the skater is in?
     
  19. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    But the USFS does pay international travel expenses when sending skaters to competitions. Maybe that is a drop in the bucket compared to training expenses, but it seems like that could be pretty signifigant.
     
  20. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

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    It also depends on where you're based. Skaters from Australia/New Zealand have to travel far to get to Internationals, so their (unfunded!) travel bills would always be higher than -say- someone in Europe who could even take the train to a smaller B international in a neighboring country.
     
  21. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    I don't recall Ashley Cain ever mentioning this publicly as a possibility - does anyone else? Her dad competed for Australia and her mother was an ice dancer in Canada.

    Cain received Team B envelope funding this season for pairs (before her split with Reagan) and was in the Reserve team (no funding) for singles. For the 2012-13 season she would have been eligible for Team C funding (6th place in Senior Pairs) had she and Reagan not split, and she qualifies for Team C funding in singles (2nd place in Junior Ladies). Team envelope funding doesn't cover the majority of skaters' annual expenses, however.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2012
  22. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    The problem is the the US Fed has to assign skaters to international competition, and if not chosen, the skater/team is SOL.

    Not to say that she's planning this, but Cain wouldn't have to move to or travel from Australia to compete for Australia.

    In Australia, if a skater/team was willing to pay travel expenses, would the Australian Federation be willing to sign his/her/them up?
     
  23. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    That's true, but she would have to pay her own travel expenses to Europe/Asia if she was not assigned to events in the US/Canada (and those events would have expenses too, domestic airfare isn't really that cheap, and neither are hotels.). Presumably, she would need to travel to Australia to compete at Australian nationals, to qualify herself for 4CCs/World's. I don't think she is a big enough name that they would hand those to her without competing against the local talent first.

    Very true that she could be passed over by the US for events entirely, but as an envelope skater (for singles) she would likely get an event.
     
  24. winterone

    winterone Banned Member

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    As an outsider looking in it appears like the whole pairs split caught her by surprize and there is much to think about. This looks like a regroup situation. The fact that she still skates singles makes sense. She is tall and will have limited opportunities as a pairs skater and they know it thus the singles option. I hope the people who are on her team think long term.
     
  25. Oz_sk8ting_mum

    Oz_sk8ting_mum New Member

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    Brooklee Han skates for Australia and lives in the USA. She has to attend a number selections here in Australia at her own expense.

    We have the normal fees like everyone else in so far as coaching ect but if you get the oppertunity to go o/s then the Skaters here pay for all their own (and their coaches) travel expenses/accommodation/food if they attend international events, so upward of $6000.00 per event.
     
  26. Stephanie

    Stephanie Well-Known Member

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    http://www.goldenskate.com/2010/09/cain-and-reagan-ambitious-and-ready/

     
  27. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Thank you for the link, Stephanie! My feeling is that Ashley Cain was sincere when she said (in September 2010) "I just want to compete for my country" and that she is proud to represent the USA. As others have said, she may have more opportunities later on if she competed singles for Australia, so who knows what the future will bring.
     
  28. ryanbfan

    ryanbfan Active Member

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    I posted this in another thread, but here is Josh Reagan skating with Cait Yankowskas today (3/8).

    I went to the Galleria for a Hunger Games Q&A (do not go to that.) and I saw Josh walking around with Cait. They skated a bit together.

     
  29. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Link to the U.S. Pairs thread in the Trash Can where their practice and video are being discussed (starting with post #741): http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=78832&page=38
     
  30. Prancer

    Prancer Jawwalking Staff Member

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    While the discussion might be there, the Trash Can is really not the place to talk about news and I wish people would stop posting news there, even if there is a thread that seems appropriate.

    The Trash Can is for polls and dead horses and threads about past skaters. Current and ongoing information really belongs here, not there.
     
    genevieve and (deleted member) like this.