Better career- Kwan or Kim

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by VolosozharGOAT, Mar 24, 2014.

Better career- Kim or Kwan

  1. Kim

    181 vote(s)
    55.7%
  2. Kwan

    144 vote(s)
    44.3%
  1. VolosozharGOAT

    VolosozharGOAT Member

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    Now with Yu Na's failure to win a 2nd OGM I think it is clear Kwan has had a much better career than Yu Na Kim. Anyone else agree.
     
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  2. orientalplane

    orientalplane Mad for mangelwurzels

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    You seem to keep a lot of goats. Maybe you could go into the cheese making industry.
     
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  3. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    :lol:

    I wouldn't call it a 'failure' that Kim didn't win Olympic gold the second time. She still won an Olympic silver medal and that's hard to do, winning Olympic medals back to back. I preferred Sotnikova's skate but it could have gone either way - and Adelina was skating on home ice after all.

    That being said - I think Kim's Olympic gold and silver trumps Michelle's Olympic silver and bronze, but on the other hand Michelle's World titles beats Yuna's. I guess it depends on how much weight you put on Olympic medals that can only be won once every four years (VERY hard to do, especially winning gold as Kwan found out) versus Worlds where one might have the chance to medal every year.
     
  4. VolosozharGOAT

    VolosozharGOAT Member

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    Kim was royally robbed of the gold in Sochi but the one reason I am glad it went that way is now people have to accept Kwan is a greater skater and had the far greater career. It always pissed me off anyone said Kim was better than Kwan when Kwan has a far better career in everyway and would destroy Kim if they were in their primes together, so that is the silver lining of the terrible unjust Sochi result.
     
  5. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    That's your opinion. In my opinion Kim WASN'T robbed of gold, Sotnikova won it on the night with a great skate. But back OT Kwan is without question one of the greatest skaters of all time but she didn't win Olympic gold. Kim is also one of the greatest skaters of all time - and she DID win Olympic gold. It depends as I said above on how much weight one puts on Olympic medals versus Worlds. It's hard to maintain Michelle's level of greatness like she did year after year. It's also hard to peak at the perfect time for the Olympics like Yuna did. Kurt Browning learned this the hard way - he was a multiple World Champion but could never win an Olympic medal of any color.
     
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  6. VolosozharGOAT

    VolosozharGOAT Member

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    Your lack of eyesight is something you should check into.

    Anyway back on topic Kwan thrashes Kim anywhere but the Olympics, and that would have been true even if Kim was given the 2nd OGM she clearly should have won. Due to how ridiculously overhyped the Olympics are some would have gone with kim had she won it, but now that she didn't thankfully people will have to say Kwan who is far superior to Kim everywhere else.
     
  7. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    This is a tough one because I like them both.

    IMO an OGM is superior to a world championship, considering the kind of pressure everyone is under. Kwan has more world titles and she skated continuously from 1995 to 2005, without taking a year off. IMO her silver in 98 should balance out Kim's silver in 2014. Argument can be made in favor of each to win the OGM. There was no robbery in either case. IIRC each had a world bronze. I am not counting the GP's at all because those competitions are very uneven, and dependent on who skated in that GP. Both of them skipped the GP's prior to their final Olympics.

    That leaves (please correct me if I am wrong about the silvers0

    Kim: 1 OGM, 2 world titles, 2 world silvers (and an Oly silver)

    Kwan: 0 OGM, 5 world titles, 3 world silvers, an Olympic bronze (and an Oly silver)

    In terms of longevity,

    Kim skated (as eligible) from 2007 worlds to 2014 Olympics, with a one year break after 2010.

    Kwan skated (as eligible) from 1995 worlds to 2005 worlds- that's 4 years more. Of course she benefitted from not having the age eligibility requirement, so we can take one year away from her, but Kim took one year off, so that balances out.

    So logically I would give it to Kwan, but an OGM is so prestigious and so difficult to win that for some, that could be the deciding factor. However, 5 world titles are extremely rare for a skater. Only Carol Heiss had that many, IIRC.

    This is a tough choice.
     
  8. clairecloutier

    clairecloutier Well-Known Member

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    I voted for Michelle Kwan simply because of career longevity. She competed longer than Kim and, thus, won more medals. Of course the whole picture would have been different if ISU age rules hadn't changed. Kwan started seniors at 13, whereas Kim had to wait until 16, so that obviously gives Kwan a big advantage. If Kim had started seniors younger, it might be a much closer comparison.

    Kwan: 5 World titles, 4 more World medals, 2 Olympic medals, on World podium 9 consecutive years
    Kim: 2 World titles, 4 more World medals, 1 Olympic title, 1 more Olympic medal, on World podium 5 consecutive years


    Both skaters are superstars/icons who were hugely influential in the sport, and both had many, many memorable programs and special moments in their careers.
     
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  9. MrLucky

    MrLucky Active Member

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    I have read many posts from Sasha's Spins and her opinions are fair enough and she is typically respectful of others.
    That is more than I can say about you.

    If it makes your day I thought Adelina or Carolina deserved the Gold and not your girl but everyone is entitled to their opinion.
    But the judges have the final say and they decided by their scores it was Adelina who scored the most points.

    That has nothing to do with who is the best skater or has had the best career.

    It means on the night of the LP Adelina and her TEAM played the system the best. Skating today is not about who is the best skater it is only about who skates to score the most points and on a given night can pull it off.

    Imagine Mao pulling off 3A's in Vancouver that Yuna can't even attempt and not winning. Simple answer, Yuna's Team played the game better and produced programs that scored more points than Mao.
     
  10. KimGOAT

    KimGOAT Active Member

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    Yu Na Kim since she has a far more complete career of dominance. Dominance at the Olympics, dominance at worlds, dominance at the grand prix final. Kwan only dominated worlds. Kim did far better than Kwan in the sports biggest and third biggest events, so that gives her the definite edge.
     
  11. MrLucky

    MrLucky Active Member

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    Do you realize that as I write this Michelle has as many WC's as Yuna, Mao and Carolina combined?

    These comparisons seem silly to me. Yuna had a great career. Michelle had a great career. Sometimes I like Sasha at her best as much as any of the Ladies but she did not win as much.
    But I still like her a lot.
     
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  12. clairecloutier

    clairecloutier Well-Known Member

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    Not everyone agrees on the significance of GP Final wins vs. World or Olympic wins. If the GP Final is the third biggest event in skating (which many would dispute), it is a pretty distant third, I think. So Kwan's lack of "domination" there is not a huge factor in my mind. And, in any case, she won 1 gold and 4 silver in 5 GP Final appearances, so that is an extremely good record, if not exactly dominant.
     
  13. KimGOAT

    KimGOAT Active Member

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    Do you realize nobody gives a flying fig what you write.

    As for grand prix final being a distant 3rd, well Worlds is a very distant 2nd to the Olympics then. I would take any career with multiple world titles, 6 world medals and an Olympic gold and silver (which everyone in skating considers as the real gold anyway) over a career with only Olympic silver and bronze regardless of world results, even if the grand prix final didnt exist.
     
  14. shady82

    shady82 Active Member

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    I lean towards Kim now because she really threw down the gauntlet with two clean programs at both Olympics. That is remarkable.
     
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  15. MrLucky

    MrLucky Active Member

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    I think it is the irrational comments from Yuna's fans that are beginning to lose any real significance at FSU.

    Yuna won Silver in Sochi. Quite an achievement for a part-time competitive skater.
    Adelina won the OGM at 17, which is also quite an achievement.

    I am happy for all three of the Ladies who won Olympic medals in Sochi.
     
  16. Xela M

    Xela M Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I have said this before, but the Olympics is the event that really separates the truly great skaters from the good ones. When the pressure and expectations are highest and everyone is at the top of their game - that's when the true champions show that they can hold it together. I never understood the obsession with Kwan - she couldn't even dominate a very weak ladies field.
     
  17. MrLucky

    MrLucky Active Member

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    A great description of Adelina who rose to the occasion like few others.
    Her skating in Sochi was far and away the best she has shown in her young career.

    But others might think winning Worlds is important too.
    Perhaps winning Worlds 5 times is a little too much like showing off for fans of skaters who never came close to such an achievement.

    I guess if Yuna never dominated Worlds the way Michelle did it must not be important or much of an achievement :lol:
     
  18. Xela M

    Xela M Well-Known Member

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    Although I thought Kim should have won, I agree that Adelina rose to the occasion and skated like she had never skated in her life under enormous pressure! Whereas Lipnitskaya's nerves gave way.
     
  19. MrLucky

    MrLucky Active Member

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    Maybe too much was expected from Julia between the Team event, all of the buzz it created, and then trying to skate her best again so soon.

    Who knows, maybe all the buzz around Julia is what helped Adelina get so focused.

    Kanako was a big disappointment for me in Sochi. Who knows if the wonderful skating she showed at 4CC took something out of her. If not physically, maybe she lost her mental edge.

    I think Yuna is a great skater. I also think we all know how good skating has been to Yuna. She has made millions and is in a position to continue accomplishing meaningful things in the next chapter of her young life if she so chooses. And maybe she wants to see what it is like to live a more normal life out of the constant glare of the spotlight.

    I wish her well and because I don't mind seeing Adelina winning the OGM in no way diminishes my respect for Yuna as a skater and as a person.

    Yuna's generosity to those less fortunate and in need impresses me more than any skating medal she ever won.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2014
  20. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, any discussion of great skaters by me will always include Kurt Browning and never include Sarah Hughes. Not buying this argument at all. I seriously can't wrap my head around any fan claiming that Wolfgang Schwarz was a "great skater" and emmerich danzer was not.
     
  21. KimGOAT

    KimGOAT Active Member

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    I agree with this. However I consider Boitano and Plushenko and Yagudin, skaters who did it at the Olympics when it mattered most in addition to having excellent records at worlds, to be better than Browning. Was going to add Hamilton but since he won his Olympic gold with such a weak performance anyway, probably not.
     
  22. MrLucky

    MrLucky Active Member

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    Scott was very accomplished at the school figures. He won his OGM and four consecutive WC's based on his all around skating skills under the rules of the day.

    If in '84 it was only about jumps Scott would not have won. But he certainly would have adjusted his training if the rules had changed.
    This is a skater who did not lose a competitive event for close to half a decade. Plush, Yags, Browning, none of them can say that. Neither can Yuna or Michelle.

    I always hear people compliment Kristi on her great Pro career. :encore:

    Scott did so much for Pro skating and helped many skaters as they left competitive skating to join the Pro ranks.
    And who ever heard a better announcer ;)

    Actually I was overjoyed to hear Scott and Sandra on the PrimeTime broadcasts after suffering through whatever it was Johnny and Tara were supposed to be doing during the morning broadcasts.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2014
  23. KimGOAT

    KimGOAT Active Member

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    When Norbert Schramm is your toughest competition, not surprised that any great skater would go on a long unbeaten wrong.
     
  24. Rex

    Rex Well-Known Member

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    Amber Corwin is better than either one of them.
     
  25. shady82

    shady82 Active Member

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    I agree with your view about the Olympics, but I can't see how Kwan had a weak field when she had to fend off Lipinski in 1998 (and the rest of her competition otherwise was no slouch either). She did dominate the field much more than the rest of the ladies at the time. Remember that Kim had her low points during her domination period (2009 onwards) as well, including losing to Ando in 2011.
     
  26. MrLucky

    MrLucky Active Member

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    That is why comparing skaters from different eras is tricky if not downright silly.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2014
  27. shady82

    shady82 Active Member

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    Love it, thanks for the throwback to the Amber Corwin thread from 2010 :lol:
     
  28. MrLucky

    MrLucky Active Member

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    Kim lost twice to Ando at Worlds. It' surprising that the greatest skater in history lost to Ando twice and then lost to that lousy Adelina.:eek:
    That's skating for you. ;)
     
  29. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    :rofl::rofl::rofl:
     
  30. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    That's very rude. Sashasspins is a very knowledgeable poster. Just because Sasha'sspins disagreed with you, you didn't need to insult her/him like this.
     
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