Best US Senior Lady other than Mirai Nagasu

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by icellist, Sep 30, 2010.

  1. icellist

    icellist New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    413
    I think almost everyone can agree that Mirai is the best senior lady from US but who do you think is better: Rachel Flatt, Caroline Zhang, or Ashley Wagner?
    Explain please
  2. feraina

    feraina Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    884
    Why don't we wait until the GP series, and then we'll have a much better informed opinion? ;)
  3. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2004
    Messages:
    9,001
    I'm not so sure everyone on here agrees about that... (PB...;))

    None of the above.
  4. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Messages:
    20,740
    I think Ashley Wagner is the 2nd best skater but that is potential only, I suppose. She has a habit of mistakes in the SP and occasionally has dealt with UR issues. She has everything over Flatt, IMO, other than consistency. Zhang, just no way, not even close to either of those.
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  5. Lanna

    Lanna Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2006
    Messages:
    8,655
    Kwan.
    mag and (deleted member) like this.
  6. MysticHaze

    MysticHaze Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    331
    Nancy Kwan
  7. tangerine_dream

    tangerine_dream New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    1,560
    None. Rachel Flatt has zero artistry, her build makes all movement look heavy and forced, and her programs are cheesy. She has no wow factor of any kind.

    Knowing the fact that Caroline Zhang is a brat automatically makes me hate her skating, but even if I didn't know that she's very sloppy and looks like she's not enjoying herself at all, so I wouldn't enjoy watching her either. Her jump technique is one of the worst.

    Ashley Wagner- I know her name but never seen her skate. Which is weird because I've watched Nationals the past few years, so she really much not be fun to watch. I probably used her as a bathroom break.

    Mirai is it. We don't need another.
  8. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2007
    Messages:
    2,667
    The best U.S. lady is Alisoline Flatwagasu. :confused:

    Actually, I don't think we have a definitive top lady right now. I think I've seen 5 or 6 opinions on the subject. Nearly every lady has her supporters. We might possibly have a top lady after this season.
  9. newbatgirl

    newbatgirl New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2006
    Messages:
    1,086
    You know this for a fact? The CoP has a component score for brattiness now?
  10. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    Messages:
    6,959
    Mirai would probably be considered #1 US lady just based on her successes in two huge comps - 2010 Olympics and 2010 Worlds, as well as her talent.

    Flatt would be #2 based on her results since 2008, when she won the LP at US Nats then won Jr. Worlds, was the highest US finisher at '09 Worlds and won the '10 Nats Sr. title.

    However, if you were to rate them by talent only, Ashley would probably be #2.

    I won't rank the newcomers like Gao or Zawadzki yet. They still have to prove themselves and show me more on the ice. Besides, they haven't really beaten the above 3 in any major competition.

    Caroline Zhang? Definitely not to be considered right now because of her slump. She occassionally gets the big scores and there are a few 'wow' moments to her skating but she really needs to fix her technique and regularly compete with and beat Nagasu, Flatt, and Wagner
  11. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2007
    Messages:
    2,667
    There was a report out of the Golden West event in Culver City. The brat volunteered her time to work the bake sale.
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  12. Lookingood

    Lookingood New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2009
    Messages:
    121
    I love Ashley Wagner wish her best upcoming GP series!
    I think she can pull out #1 US lady!:cheer2:
  13. MikiAndoFan#1

    MikiAndoFan#1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2009
    Messages:
    14,081
    Go Ashley!

    :cheer2:
  14. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Messages:
    7,863
    Ashley, no question. Agnes Z should be making it near the top this season, too.
  15. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2007
    Messages:
    2,667
    We are in such disagreement here. I am hoping the question will be settled this season.
  16. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    Messages:
    6,959
    But Agnes Z is so unproven at this point in the Senior ranks. I watched her skate courtesy of Youtube. Everything looks really good, but I didn't see a WOW factor that would automatically place her / leapfrog into the running as US #1 or #2 in the coming year....
  17. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    10,235
    Christina Gao :encore:

    I know, I know, I know....she's young and unproven on the senior ranks. But I just get a good vibe about her. I think she's the next meal ticket for the US ladiezzz.
  18. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Messages:
    7,863
    "IT" Factor needs no proving. You're either born with it or you are not. Did you not see Agnes when she won Jr Worlds silver or Jr Nats? She totally perkolates. AND she has the long lines, which don't hurt, but personality is more important than looks.

    Ashley Wagner is tailor-made for Madison Avenue in every respect - looks and sassy oomph in how she sells everything. When I attended last year's Kaleidoscope benefit in DC, I could not help but notice during the finale, when all skaters were together, two women naturally commanded our attention even while simply standing and posing: Dorothy Hamill and Ashley Wagner. (Eyes are a part of it, no doubt.) Even greats in attendance like Yamaguchi and Kerrigan were barely noticeable in the group number, IMO. That's the "IT" factor.
  19. dawnie

    dawnie Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2004
    Messages:
    344
    I think the current pecking order is something like:

    Nagasu
    Flatt
    Wagner
    Gao and Zawadzki
    Zhang and Czisny
    The rest

    Of course this will change as the GP season begins. Nagasu making the GP Final will certainly cement her status as the best US lady and favorite for the US title. But as we've seen in the past with Czisny and Wagner, making the GP Final doesn't mean squat if you don't deliver at Nationals.

    I still think the 2 World spots will be between Nagasu, Flatt, or Wagner.
  20. museksk8r

    museksk8r Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2008
    Messages:
    3,270
    Mirai Nagasu, while pleasing to watch when she's "on", has not definitively established herself as U.S. lady #1. Results wise, she and Rachael Flatt are on pretty equal ground. I personally find Ashley Wagner more captivating to watch than any of the other current U.S. ladies. She has choreography, transitions, and speed that rival the world's best! If she ever gets her jump technique problems and SP consistency resolved, look out!

    My personal ranking (not based on results, but on impression):
    1. Wagner
    2. Nagasu
    3. Czisny
  21. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,586
    I'd say Nagasu, Wagner, and dull as she is, Flatt. I can't honestly put Czisny in the top three; she has too many jump issues.
  22. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2003
    Messages:
    30,097
    I adore Mirai - but I wouldn't call her the #1 US lady quite yet. I'd say she and Flatt are about neck and neck. Mirai's got the edge from Olys (and the Worlds SP), but Flatt has been more consistent. Wagner is on the outside trying to bust into the top ranks. It's anyone's game from those three, and it would be shocking if the 2011 US Worlds team did not include 2 of them.
    PRlady and (deleted member) like this.
  23. geod2

    geod2 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    556
    uh.... are you serious????

    :lol:

    .
  24. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2007
    Messages:
    2,667
    There have been reports coming out all summer on how Caroline and Ashley have been reworking their jumps. Is it possible to rework jumps in a single summer? The opinion of several experts on 2 message boards is that it is not. However the 2 ladies do not appear to have received that memo. I will expect Caroline and/or Ashley to make a major statement this Grand Prix.
  25. geod2

    geod2 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    556
    Maybe a coaching change will finally raise her game to a new level....
    It wouldn't be the first time.
    Well, her fans can always hope so....sigh.


    .
  26. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,014
    Well, we all know that Ashley has been reworking her jumps every since she came to Priscilla, so that's believeable. Caroline has also made a little bit of progress within the last couple of seasons (for example, getting into the rotation faster).
  27. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2004
    Messages:
    9,814
    I think it's possible for Ashley, although I suspect she will still struggle with trying to fix the flutz for at least one more season. For Caroline ? Uh...does the phrase "when pigs fly" means anything ? :lol:

    Seriously though, I do wish Caroline the best this season. I just don't see how it's possible to fix her extreme mule kick and body twisting in one summer when she had spent most of her skating life performing jumps that way.
  28. query5

    query5 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    672
    SOrry -- Mirai isn't the best U.s. lady skater -the whinnest u.s skating lady and most excuses Us lady==not the best
    yes she placed 4th at olympics but only 7th at worlds after bombing her free skate when all she had to do was skate a little
    so far for me NO U.S. lady is the best=--they still have work to do,
    Mirai, mental and speed and ur and consistency, rachel speed, ashley consitency-carolilna zhang consistency and clean up ur's
    alissa=consistency
    they all have problems that need to be fixed before becoming best U.s. lady,
    she can be most likly lady to medal however 3 years gp circiut up in short screwed long, has to stop.
    other country ladies are just as good if not better,
    not best one of the best and one of hopefuls. until she gets it fixed she is far from the us. most hopeful us maybe but not best.
  29. query5

    query5 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    672
    also can't handle one person--not agreeing with you. cant handle a person saying no to your yes. amazing you guys are suppose to be fair-sorry don't believe it only if we agree with yo.

    mirai not best maybe hopeful but than you don't want people to agree with me and say i might have something, you don't like me --good--.

    says i am doing something right.
  30. UGG

    UGG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,838
    well obviously right now as of last season Mirai and rachel are the two best ladies skaters. They are both national champions, Olympians, and placed top 10 at worlds. no other current ladies skater can say the same...although Alissa is also a national champion but has never placed top 10 at worlds and is not an Olympian.
    kwanette and (deleted member) like this.
  31. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

    Joined:
    May 26, 2002
    Messages:
    2,603
    I'm with you on this one.
  32. mikemba

    mikemba Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2005
    Messages:
    436
    I couldn't disagree more. While I like Ashley, I don't see even one quality that makes her special. Everything's good but she doesn't have a single "wow" factor.

    And I don't mean to pick a fight here, but the idea that Ashley Wagner would somehow outshine Kristi Yamaguchi is just laughable. Kristi Yamaguchi "barely noticeable" to Ashley Wagner? I actually thought you were joking.
  33. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    Messages:
    4,924
    Exactly when did she whine and make excuses? My recollection is that she went through some typical teenage stuff, but she seems to be doing fine under Frank so far.
  34. AliasJohnDoe

    AliasJohnDoe Spin Alissa Spin!!!

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    3,676
    1.Czisny - She's always been and always will be my #1. I'm bias and a glutton for punishment.:p
    2.Nagasu - The odds on bet for #1.
    3.Wagner - 2 years ago I said she'd be mature enough to be US champ at 2011 Nats.
    4-6.Zawadzki/Gao/Siraj - Consistent and technical. Anyone could be #1 in 3 years.
    7.Zhang - Has been stagnant for 4 years. I had such high hopes.
    8.Baga - Just because she's my second fav US lady behind Czisny.
    9.Dobbs - No lutz but I love watching her.
    10.Flatt - I just can't watch. I'm Flattophobic. Forgive me. :slinkaway
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2010
    geod2 and (deleted member) like this.
  35. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2007
    Messages:
    2,667
    And let's suppose she does NOT fix her extreme mule kick and body twisting, where does that leave her? Does that leave her in the slump of the '09 - '10 season? Or does that put her back to the '08 - '09 season where she should have made the World team, but still went into the summer as the top American lady? :cool:
  36. Dilng

    Dilng Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2004
    Messages:
    2,043
    There is no #1 girl Mirai is still inconsistent and her programs are boring. No one has that it factor. Maybe someone will step up this season and be much better. They are all inconsistent and bland.
  37. UGG

    UGG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,838
    Rachel placed 5th at worlds that year and 2nd at nationals. She should have won IMO, so I don't see how Caroline would be the clear cut top american going into the Olympic season.
  38. AxelAnnie

    AxelAnnie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2002
    Messages:
    5,682
    Must say, I totally agree.

    All the US Ladies have glaring issues. Flatt is so...........flatt and boring to watch. And down the list (or up the list since I started at the bottom)

    For sheer pleasure, I would rather watch Alyssa fall than watch any of the others. For grace, line, elegance, beauty, spirit....she has all that in spades.

    Zhang - I really thought she was going to be a stand-out. But, I think that train left the station.

    Nagasu and Wagner can be wonderful. But for polish, drama and presentation, I would prefer Ashley. Just love watching her skate. Her nuanced performances are wonderful....even if not perfect. Nagasu is more "cute" than powerful and dramatic.....not that you have to be, but I like it.

    Maybe Czisny will do a Nikodinov .... and have the same kind of turn-around. That was certainly gorgeous to behold.
  39. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,014
    Woah there. Ashley has the best overall package (next to Nagasu) when it comes to skating, and that by itself is special. Of course, there isn't just one aspect of her skating that stands out, but all together, she does everything well.

    I don't think it's laughable at all that Ashley outshined Kristi. Kristi's skating was a humongous borefest when she was an amateur and had ugly jumps and overall skating basics when compared to Ashley. It really wasn't until Kristi became a pro that she finally learned to connect with the audience (in some regards), and even then I wouldn't consider her to be special.
  40. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

    Joined:
    May 26, 2002
    Messages:
    2,603
    Totally disagree with this..How did Kristi have ugly jumps?

    Did she flutz? What did I miss all those yrs ago?