Best skater of Kwan/Slutskaya era- Kwan or Slutskaya

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by frillit, Jul 14, 2013.

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Best skater of Kwan and Slutskaya era

  1. Slutskaya

    106 vote(s)
    41.4%
  2. Kwan

    142 vote(s)
    55.5%
  3. neither, someone else

    8 vote(s)
    3.1%
  1. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    i don't think rewriting history ever does anyone any good. Neither Kwan nor irina had "disasters" when bobeck and Maria easily beat them in the 95 and 00 SPs respectively by simply out skating them and being rewarded by judges very willing to place them 1st. Is Maria the 1999 world bronze medalist? No, I didn't think so.
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2013
    Simone411 and (deleted member) like this.
  2. giselle23

    giselle23 Active Member

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    How is it that one poll says that Michelle had no competition in her era and another says that nearly half of the voters think Irina is a better skater than Michelle?
    kwanette and (deleted member) like this.
  3. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Haters gotta hate.
  4. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    Guh? Please explain...
  5. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    There are people who actually think the GPF means something other than $peedy's pet cheese fest.
  6. butyrskafanatic

    butyrskafanatic Member

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    Maria did not beat Michelle in 2001 SP. Maria skated a beautiful short program on par with her excellent winning 2000 Worlds SP and was inexplicably dumped to a lowly 5th place behind Slutskaya, Kwan, Nikidinov, and Hughes.

    Kwan was not in her prime in 1995, but I conceded the OP was right on Nicole anyway. Nicole was her own worst enemy with her poor training tactics, laziness, changing coaches. She didnt even choke under pressure so much as show up unprepared most of the time. The judges were Marias worst enemy.
  7. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    Still waiting on an explanation...
  8. shady82

    shady82 New Member

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    On paper, Slutskaya edges Kwan in GPFs by 4-1, but when we take into account that Kwan was robbed of the 01-02 GPF title, the record should actually be 3-2. Slutskaya's win at the GPF that year was outrageous, maybe even more so than when she beat Butyrskaya at 2000 NHK. Only four triples, sloppy presentation, and an incoherent program to Tosca. With this taken into account, Slutskaya's edge in GPFs is not that big.
    kwanette and (deleted member) like this.
  9. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Not to mention Kwan tends to peak at Worlds anyway. Kwan beat Slute hands down on their head-to-head matches at Worlds even if disregarding 2004 Worlds in which Slute was not in peak form (but if we do that we should probably also disregard 2005 Worlds during which Kwan was severely injured).
  10. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    They're neck and neck in terms of overall package. My edge goes to Michelle simply because she was more beautiful to watch. Athleticism is important but at the end of the day Michelle has far too many masterpiece programs (exhibition and competition) in comparison

    I find Yamaguchi to be really overrated artistically until her pro career. Comparing her Olympics Malaguena to Cohen's, it's like night and day in terms of utilization of music and artistry.

    Her lutz was better than ever in 2005, and her jumps had more height. Her flip had a beautiful exiting edge during that period

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzGVwsSoNz8#t=4m2s
  11. angelflies

    angelflies Member

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    I voted for Kwan. However it wasnt an easy choice. I thought Kwan was the better skater in 96, 97, 98, 99, 2003. I thought Irina was in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2005, 2006. So each had 5 seasons they were better than the other. I know Kwan won the 2000 and 2001 Worlds but that just means she was the best competitor at Worlds and had to skate lights out and have Irina make mistakes to win both times. Overall Slutskaya was best skater of boths seasons, but just didnt compete the best in the final long program of Worlds both times. Had Worlds been held 10 times both seasons, Irina would have won atleast 7 of the 10 both times. The period both were in their primes Slutskaya was the better skater most of her time, but Kwan had many more years of being successful before Irina even became more than a bronze contender.
  12. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Considering how Slute had only beaten Kwan once before Worlds in 2000 and twice in 2001, who knows. Kwan trained to peak at a certain time during those seasons.
  13. Lnt175

    Lnt175 Member

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    Agreed. Kwan was robbed in that GPF.
  14. David21

    David21 Well-Known Member

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    Hmm...the flip was 1/4 underrotated. :p
    The lutz also wasn't very high. I remember her jumps being better and more powerful in 2003.

    ETA: In general, Kwan's skating and jumps looked rather "heavy" to me in 2005. Also, because of the new judging system, her precision suffered. She even wobbled on the spiral sequence which you normally would never see from her.
  15. staceyliving

    staceyliving New Member

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    That is meaningless. The record books will always record Slutskaya as winning the 01-02 GPF title and years from now hardly anyone will remember the performances. One could argue Hughes winning the final LP, Kwan second, and Slutskaya third, which would yield the same result anyway. One could also argue Slutskaya winning the 95-96 GPF over Kwan where she had 2 clean performances and lost to Kwan who fell on a simple triple toe in the short, and missed her second triple lutz in the long too.
  16. David21

    David21 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, if we argued like that, then one could claim that Slutskaya is a greater skater than Kwan since no way Hughes should have beaten Slutskaya in SLC with her weak SP....
  17. kwanoverrated

    kwanoverrated Member

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    I voted for other. I think Sasha Cohen was the best skater of the decade. The question was skater, not competitor. Best competitor of the Kwan era would be between Kwan and Slutskaya. Best career of the Slutskaya era would also be between Slutskaya and Kwan. Best skater though might be one of them but it also could be someone else. Sasha had best spins, best spirals, best elegance, best lines, best choreography. Irina had best jumps and best footwork and best speed and best spins along with Sasha. Kwan had best basic skating and edge quality. Sasha was best at more things than the other two.

    She doesnt have the medals and titles since she wasnt as good a competitor but as a skater she is the best of that era. Chen maybe 2nd best, bobek 3rd, then Kwan and Slutskaya. The greatest champions of that era are Kwan and Slutskaya, but that is largely their mental strength, not that their skating overwhelms all others.
  18. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

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    I preferred Irina a bit, to be honest. While I agree that Kwan had the edge in terms of polish and musicality, Irina wasn't without artistry and when her programs suited her skating style and personality, she really brought them to life. Her 2005 FS in Moscow is one of my all-time favs.

    However, I think Michelle is the best of the era, because of her consistency and the fact that she earned five world titles - and I think nine national titles?

    Kwan is a legend in the sport, at least in North America. Can the same be said about Irina in Russia?
  19. munow

    munow New Member

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    No other Russian lady achieved more than Slutskaya, AFAIK. So she could very well be considered a legend in her home country.
  20. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I am sure in the figure skating community Irina is an enormous legend in Russia, and even in all of Europe. Now whether she is one that transcends other sports and to the general non figure skating public even in Russia like Kwan in the U.S is another matter, and I wouldnt have any idea the answer to that.
  21. kwanoverrated

    kwanoverrated Member

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    Is Slutskaya not well liked on this forum? I just sense people dont really like her here or want to give her the credit she deserves for her skating. I dont understand some people in this thread talking about them like they are a universe apart as skaters. How did Irina be such a strong rival for Kwan almost her whole career if they arent of somewhat similar ability? I would think that even if I were a Kwan fan (well a reasonable one atleast).

    Irina does do alot of things better than Michelle. It is not like you are comparing Kwan to Suguri or Butyrskaya for example. Because Irina does alot of things better than Michelle, and Michelle does alot of things better than Irina they had a close rivalry, exchanged alot of wins, and had close career achievements which would suggest close to equal caliber of skaters.
  22. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    Considering your screen name, I think you are more like an unreasonable non-Kwan fan, so there is no point trying to explain.
  23. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    I loved both Michelle and Irina and it's hard for me to pick one (but I did vote for Michelle). They were very different skaters. Both were great competitors, but Michelle was a better competitor. I loved the softness in Michelle's skating and the power in Irina's. Both had great personality on the ice and they connected with the audience so well. Both had stellar long careers. I really hate to pick just one of them. I miss them both.
  24. usova94gold

    usova94gold Member

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    What I notice most is you seem to think this is a harder call than your comments on the Kwan vs Kim thread which you seem to think is Kwan by far. I hope you dont think Irina Slutskaya is a better skater than Yu Na Kim since that would be pretty funny. Irina and Kim are easiest to compare since both are technical skaters first and foremost, and Kim is a way better technical skater than Irina, plus a better artist by an even bigger margin too, and more consistent and a stronger competitor than Irina also.
  25. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    I think there is some margin for debate regarding the technical skating since Irina had a 3Lutz-3Loop and all the triples, while Kim does not.
  26. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    We are not comparing Irina vs. Yu na, so your comment means nothing. we are not doing algebra here. :)