Best male skater of the 2000s

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by kwanlysacek, Jan 30, 2013.

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Best male skaters of the 2000s

  1. Lysacek

    19 vote(s)
    6.2%
  2. Plushenko

    77 vote(s)
    25.2%
  3. Yagudin

    109 vote(s)
    35.7%
  4. Lambiel

    44 vote(s)
    14.4%
  5. Takahashi

    50 vote(s)
    16.4%
  6. Joubert

    6 vote(s)
    2.0%
  1. yaya124

    yaya124 New Member

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    You are right. To be honest, same argument goes to every forum no matter which topics people are discussing. Because there is no criteria for judging. It is kind of post meant to stir up things a bit. :lol:
  2. Holley Calmes

    Holley Calmes Well-Known Member

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    Let's not forget that in the biggest head to head battle between them, Yagudin beat Plushenko fair and square. I was there. I saw it. Alexei's win at SLC is still an inspiring and much loved moment in skating. Compare that to Plushenko's lackluster gold performance four years later. I am NOT beating up on Plushy. He's magnificent. But I just wanted to point out that we did have a very dramatic moment there on the ice. Alexei had staged a comeback and totally captured the night with a brilliant and heartgrabbing performance. I know Plushenko has had many great moments and performed wonderfully hundreds of times, but nothing is ever going to come close to that moment for me. JMO!!! If we want to say "which one had the most impressive and memorable Olympic performance" I'd have to give it to Yagudin.

    I also had the pleasure at that time to admire a beautiful young man named Joubert who didn't medal or even do all that well, but who totally captured my heart. I also got to pay homage to Abt, who to me should have taken the silver, but that's a highly subjective opiniong. (Handsome young man in romantic costume skating to Rachmananov? Are you kidding?? Give him a medal! :)) I'm being silly, but in terms of how I took them into my mind and heart, it would've been Yagudin, Abt, Plushenko (who was fabulous-don't get me wrong.)

    Like many are saying - it is really a subjective discussion. I try to have respect for the Plushenko ubers. Wish they would return the favor. I agree - they are pushing me away from wanting to hear anything about him. I could never turn against my respect for him as a skater, but it's like "enough already!"

    Let's also remember that in terms of fandom, the past ten years has seen a significant boom in popular/social media. It's totally unfair to compare any skater who quit in 2002 with someone going strong in today's world. That comparison is definitely illogical.
    rayhaneh and (deleted member) like this.
  3. Ozzisk8tr

    Ozzisk8tr Well-Known Member

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    Jenna Mccorkell
    skateboy and (deleted member) like this.
  4. Glacier cat

    Glacier cat New Member

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  5. SmallFairy

    SmallFairy Well-Known Member

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    Holly Calmes, let me love you! (and my handsome young man in romantic costume skating to Rachmaninov!) And Yagudin is forever the best, along with Lambiel and Takahashi. I'd watch Abt a thousand times over Plushenko too. Love Abt! To me, these four (AA, AY, DT, SL) are the "best" skaters, they have everything I'm looking for. I can watch my videos of them over and over and over. Other fans look for different things. That's perfectly ok:):)

    This thread is making me dizzy! I admire you who find the power and inspiration to write long, complex and intelligent replies to Lala. She's clearly obsessed with Plush and won't listen to us, nor understand that different opinions exists, no matter what we write. She's not making any sense in her argumentation, and she will never realize that.
  6. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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  7. SmallFairy

    SmallFairy Well-Known Member

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    <3
    After watching this I had to watch his sp too, I heart it so much! I mean, you gotta love a guy who is spinning to Willhelm Tell....and is actually able to keep up with the music!!
  8. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    If i'm not mistaken, the Olympic version of this is also one of the highest scoring step sequences of all time if not the highest. And deservedly so.

    Gotta love a guy who was spinning as the flagbearer in the Olympic opening ceremony, too :D (you can kind of see it here)
  9. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    I have been writing in my opinion, and I showed the facts. And I waited for yours. Why we're here? Because we love to talk about the FS. No? Everyone has a different opinions, and when we argue these are conflicting opinions. What is the problem? I don't want to convince anyone, just waiting for someone to refute mine if anyone can.
    You know, if anybody ask me who is the best swimmer, I will say Phelps, but who is my favorite, I will say Mark Spitz. Do you understand? The question is who is the best skater in 2000th? When we shall take a decision, we take everything into account: their longevity, results, impact on FS, etc. Or I'm wrong? But what did I get, instead of facts?: false details, many subjective opinions what do you like in FS, and you scolding me because I wrote my aspects. Yes, I'm Plushenko's fan, but these are the reasons, why I'm his fan. What I wrote that are truth, everyone can check it, if wants.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
  10. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Nobody scolded you, Lala. People pointed out - rather patiently, I thought - that what you were presenting as objective facts are actually your subjective opinions. I realize that English is not your first language, and I'm willing to make some allowances for that, but the bottom line here is that you're not backing up your opinions very well. Your "truth" is just that: yours. It is not absolute truth. Telling people that Plushenko is more memorable because his video has a lot of hits or because his fans wrote him nice messages to cheer him up post-surgery proves nothing other than that he has some very nice fans. There's a three year old who can't skate who has more Youtube views than any of the performances from any of the guys in this thread. So what? Gangnam Style has more views than anything Mozart or Beethoven ever composed. Does that prove the greatness of Gangnam Style, the one piece of music to rule them all?

    It's fine to use your own criteria and declare Plushenko the best. It is not fine to attack people who disagree with your views and claim that they are haters, or ignorant, or both, and then complain when people call you out on it. Acting like an uber will not win you any support here.

    And if you can't handle that, there are Plushenko fan forums where you won't have to deal with dissenting views.
  11. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    OK. Tell me your objective facts, please. And you perfectly know, the video and the messages weren't my arguments. :) I just showed them, because were some really inaccurate post about him. My arguments were, career, longevity, impact on FS etc. But I said this is FSU, so I'm not surprised.
    I'm sure if anybody will ask this question 20 years time, and read the lexicons, everybody will know the answer.
    And I don't want supporters or friends.
    Finally thank you for your patient because of my english. I wanted my best. :lol:
  12. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    Lala, a few questions

    a) Patrick Chan has received more tens for performance/execution and interpretation from the judges than Plushenko has. Both have competed under COP on the senior stages for the same number of seasons (6). Would it be fair to then assert that Chan is better at performance/execution and interpretation than Plushenko is?

    b) If not (as I expect the answer to be from anyone), than is it fair to assert that because the judges gave Plushenko more 6.0 marks than anyone else in history objectively means he's the most artistic skater? If so, why? Why doesn't context matter?

    c) Given that the original poster specified the 2000s as well as a specific season frame (2000/2001 to 2009/2010), is my information about Plushenko's competitive record actually wrong? If so, where? If not, is it fair for you to accuse me of not having "exact informations"?

    d) What is the difference, for you, between "most decorated" and "competitive record." To me, they are the same thing and to list them twice reaffirms your subjective position as opposed to the objective position you claim to espouse.

    e) Is impact solely measured by moves created? Firsts achieved?

    f) Is Youtube an accurate measure of true "memorabilty?" Is their a direct correlation between number of views and true memorability? If I can find a Patrick Chan performance that has more views than a Kurt Browning Performance (Worlds 2012 LP vs Nyah, fwiw) does that mean that the Chan performance is more memorable? Is memorable inherently a positive thing?
  13. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    Career, longevity are not objective facts of being better. Tara Lipinski had a better career than Jenna McCorkell.
    And impact is subjective. ;)
    Well, that kind of choice is personnal and depends on what is more important for us. :)
  14. Holley Calmes

    Holley Calmes Well-Known Member

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    Since this is FSU I am NOT surprised that several posters have absolutely made my day by posting some marvelous stuff! Thank you, Shine, for that gorgeous, balletic, emotionally uplifting video of Lambiel to Traviata. As someone who works with dancers, he is one of the most balletic, graceful skaters I have ever seen. I think I need to go watch that again a few dozen times-it absolutely lifted my heart! And Zemgirl for the Olympic entrances...I had to find Switzerland and was watching Sweden...was that Bill Clinton marching there behind the Sweden flagbearer? Haha...sorry. It looks like him anyway.

    More! Send more Takahashi, more Lambiel, more Joubert videos! I don't care who's the "best." They're all wonderful!
  15. bek

    bek Guest

    I prefer Yagudin as a skater and I think in the battle of whose better the fact that at the majority of Worlds they competed at and at the Olympics, Yagudin came on top illustrates to me who is really the better skater... Yagudin won that battle.

    However, if I'm going to say who is the best of that decade I give it to Plushenko because he competed for most of that decade, Yagudin didn't. And Plushenko's longevity is frankly unreal.

    Greatest rivalry though in men's skating.
  16. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    The Parade of Nations is the best part of any Olympic opening ceremony. That they had everyone speed through it in London was inexcusable; I'd rather see the athletes than a tribute to tributes. In Vancouver, the best part is playing spot the skaters - you can see Florent Amodio jumping up and down next to Olivier Schoenfelder, Julia Sebestyen with the flag in her fourth Olympics and KvdP with the flag for the second time, among others. It's also very moving to see the Georgians walk into the stadium.

    Okay, back on topic, and as per your request: here's a first by Joubert: first (and for six years, only) skater to land three quads in a program under the IJS. I figure that adjusting for scoring inflation, his 160 and change is more like 175 or so. As for Dai, I only fell for him when he did Bachelorette at the 2008 Worlds gala. Love that program. Kenji Miyamoto makes everything better and for me it's >>>> his Swan Lake; I can't imagine another skater doing as good a job with that music (no, not even Stephane).
  17. ciocio

    ciocio New Member

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    You're wasting your time here, Lala. Better go and post on Evgeni's facebook, twitter, website, he really needs our support now. I bet we're more than 100, right? ;)
  18. Holley Calmes

    Holley Calmes Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Zemgirl! Those were amazing! What a beautiful beast Joubert was/is! Regardless of his costume. Dai's Swan Lake is my all time favorite of his, but I find him infinitely enjoyable regardless.
  19. Wiery

    Wiery Well-Known Member

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    This American votes for Plushenko, at least for technical achievements. He's the most successful competitor in the sport's history (my opinion only), and his jumps are still the standard to which everyone else is compared. There may be other skaters I prefer for various reasons: Lambiel, Chan, Takahashi, Yagudin, Kulik, Weir, Joubert, Buttle, Abbott, but IMO, no one jumps better and more consistently than Plushenko, and no one is a more fierce competitor. I respect him for what he has achieved and contributed to the sport. :swoon::kickass:
  20. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    a.) Chan isn't on list, because he didn't skate too much in 2000th.
    b.) I didn't say, he is the most artistic skater, I just disproved the claim that he isn't artistric skater and Yag is more artistic skater like Plush.
    c.)2000/2001 to 2009/20010 Plushenko has three olympic medals, 3 time W champion, 5 time E champion, yes, 3time GPFwinner and 2times silver medalist( yes, you are right, 1 time he was in 1999), 13 Gp winner, and 8 time Rus Nat champion. (Yagudin has never been Rus Nat champion)
    d.) most decorated: I meant: he has the most titles
    competitive record: he was only five time silver medalist( in 2001 GPF, 2002 SLC, and 2003 GPF, 2004GPF and 2004 ECH) but in the other competitions he won gold. He wasn't worse!!!!
    e.) No, he has changed the FS, he has shaped the FS, he did some elements for the first time in Fs history.
    f.)memorability: Do you think, who is interested in FS, doesn't remember him? And the people didn't remember his fantastic performances? His Ex in Torino, his Godfather, St. Petersbourg 300, Bolero, EX programs-Sex bomb, Asissay, Hafanana etc.? And you believe me, if anybody don't interested in FS, knows his name. He received some international awards, he is always a guest for the big shows in Europe and Asia. And he was guest many times in COI. He has own show the Kings on Ice. His friend is E Marton, he has a Stradivari violin, and Plush skated to his music. The people didn't forget this, because this is unique.
  21. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand your examples.
  22. Holley Calmes

    Holley Calmes Well-Known Member

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    Lala, I admire your persistence, but the more you go on and on, the bigger hole you are digging for yourself. If you haven't changed anyone's mind by now, you won't. Yags beat Plush when it counted-at the Olympics, generally perceived as the highest award in figure skating at least in my world, in the only time they went head to head in an Olympic venue. I'll take that, but I don't begrudge you your opinions or want to be unkind.

    I wish you well. However, I'm pretty put off anything to do with Plushenko for awhile. Don't take any PR jobs, lala, but you might make a great lawyer. I mean that kindly. I know a good fighter when I see one. I hope you channel that wonderful sense of "never give up" into something that will mean something significant for your life.
  23. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    ;)
  24. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    I replied Proustable. :)
  25. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you understand anyone's examples. Or, for that matter, what the focus of this thread is. You keep insisting that you are "proving" and "disproving" things when all you are doing is presenting the same subjective points over and over. In doing so, you've achieved exactly the opposite of what you've set out to do.

    Which is to say, I should have picked Lambiel or Joubert. And Holley is right: Yagudin won the one that matters.
  26. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    Yes, for you. ;)
  27. senorita

    senorita New Member

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    True. Yagudin won most of their battles. This needed a poll for someone to figure out?

    So whats the focus of this thread? Because if you read the whole 6 pages at once , it is the 600th thread about Plushenko vs Yagudin with very few exceptions of a post. And it all comes down to personal preference and what the people like/remember/love watching the most, like lets say..Youtube.

    Jenna's husband competed the whole decade and left last Worlds with a great skate. For me Kevin is the best skater of the decade.:kickass:
  28. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    Isn't he! :swoon: And he combines it with such musicality and freedom. I love the way he skates as if with his eyes closed, in his own world.
    Yes, I might be wrong but I think it is the only serpentine sequence to have received a level 4. I didn't post the Olympic version though because that unfortunately wasn't one of his better performances to Traviata even artistically, as he skated very tight throughout. I didn't post the Euros version either because he fell during the final steps... I wish we had been left with more competition versions of La Traviata because neither of the two did justice to the wonderful program imo.
  29. SmallFairy

    SmallFairy Well-Known Member

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  30. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Well, the OP was a troll who wanted to tell us about the greatness of Lysacek, But the thread is about who is the greatest skater of a specific decade, namely, the 2000-1 through the 2009-10 season. I thought Proustable made a good argument about who was strongest in different areas during this timeframe, but Lala has since been quite insistent that Plushenko was always the best, most memorable, most accomplished, most artistic, most beloved etc. etc. Her rationale for this, I'm afraid, is unpersuasive, and it's a turnoff even for people who are inclined to think well of Plushenko.

    I actually did pick Plushenko; I'd vote Yags for best career, not best in a decade in which he only competed for two full seasons. I think a case can also be made for Lambiel and Joubert. Lysacek for me didn't do enough for long enough, while Takahashi's best work, like Yagudin's, spans two separate decades.

    Ha. But he left in a different decade than he started. I'll give him credit for an entertaining K&C reaction to his first Euros bronze.
  31. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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  32. ciocio

    ciocio New Member

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    I've almost always liked Yagudin more than Plushenko when they were competing together, but what Plushenko did after 2002 was also amazing and memorable to me in terms of programs, accomplishments, etc. So my vote went to him because he competed for seven years between 2000-2010 and did a lot of great stuff. :plush:
    And I'm a real Yagudin fan not like those who just use him name to bash Plushenko.:p
  33. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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  34. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    Fine program from Plush, but yes, I have seen better programs from others.

    I don't believe you have the authority to close a thread.
  35. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    :lol: How about lala was joking re Thread closed?
  36. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    If we did a pairs version of this thread it would be closed - well, ended - pretty quickly, since it is so very obvious that Shen and Zhao should win.
  37. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I realize that. ;) But it seems that this poster has to have the last word about Plush being "the best," won't stop until every FSU poster agrees with her (which will never happen) and it's getting annoying.
  38. rayhaneh

    rayhaneh New Member

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    It's getting annoying?

    You're so much more patient than I am :lol::saint:

    To Lala's defence though, she makes some good points, or at least they open the debate, it's just the "trying to get everyone to agree" bit that's driving people batty ;)
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
  39. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    I was joking, it seems you lost the sense of humor. :) That's interesting in other topic " best female skater in 2000th" is the most important argument who has the most tittles. What is this if not double standards?:lol:
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
  40. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, sometimes the people are so annoying...:lol:
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013