Best ever 2 times or more Ladies World Medalist (but no golds and no Olympic medals)?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Seerek, Jul 22, 2010.

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Who's the best of these multiple world medalists (but no golds nor an Olympic medal)?

  1. Julie Lynn Holmes (1970, 1971)

    5 vote(s)
    4.5%
  2. Claudia Kristofics-Binder (1981, 1982)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Claudia Leistner (1983, 1989)

    1 vote(s)
    0.9%
  4. Tiffany Chin (1985, 1986)

    23 vote(s)
    20.5%
  5. Surya Bonaly (1993, 1994, 1995)

    34 vote(s)
    30.4%
  6. Fumie Suguri (2002, 2003, 2006)

    32 vote(s)
    28.6%
  7. Carolina Kostner (2005, 2008)

    14 vote(s)
    12.5%
  8. Other (please specify)

    3 vote(s)
    2.7%
  1. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Jul 24, 2010
  2. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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  3. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    Ewww . . . Thank goodness nobody else does it like that. The jumps are impressive, but she goes completely flat, arms to her side for 1/4 of the rink prior to the jumps, making it something any figure skating purist would loath. It's yucky, wrong, neither figure skating nor artistic skating. It's a scored training session.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2010
  4. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    For me Kostner is the worst skater on that list other than possibly Kristofics Binder. Leistner atleast was a consistently pretty strong technical skater who worked hard to improve on her presentation over the years even though she got buried by the depth of the field in the 85-88 quad. Holmes was a very strong skater, superior at figures to Magnussen and Lynn, and superior at free skating to nearly everyone except Seyfert, Magnussen and Lynn. Bonaly for all her flaws was atleast very reliable technically and trying some of the hardest jumps out there during her prime of 93-95.
     
  5. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    Suguri, Chin a close second.
     
  6. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

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    Also, Fumie has proven to be a better clutch competitor. She was hosed in the PCS compared to the top three.

    Well, 2006.
     
  7. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I thought Sasha was considered a lock in 2006 with who was not there, and the consensus was if anyone beat her it would be a teenager with triple-triples (which it was).

    Maybe in 2004 though. Suguri did win the GP over Cohen that year. Was Suguri considered a gold contender for the 2004 Worlds along with Kwan and Cohen going in this year.
     
  8. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    Many of which were under-rotated.
     
  9. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    True but so were most skaters pre-COP (one reason thank god for COP despite all the complaints it gets).
     
  10. bek

    bek Guest

    I think Suguri at her prime was better. In her prime she landed a lot more triples and was top 3 in the world two years straight. Yes Sarah had deeper fields, but I don't think she would have beaten Suguri's best skates.
     
  11. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Suguri is definitely better than Meier. Her best scores were higher than Meier was ever posting, despite the scoring escalation (aside from the actual improvement in skating and working the system) that has gone on ever since the COP was introduced. And right now both are past their primes anyway.
     
  12. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure there was any year that Sarah Meier was really within reach of the podium at Worlds...perhaps 2006 (not sure).

    One interesting stat regarding both of Claudia Kristofics-Binder's 2 World bronze medals.

    For all of the ISU's attempts to help out the free skaters even further by introducing factored placements in 1980, Kristofics-Binder won both of her World championship medals never placing in top 3 in any of the short program or long program segments.
    (1981, she was 1-6-5 for CF-SP-FS segments respectively, and then was 1-9-4 in 1982, but still wound up with bronze overall both times).
     
  13. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

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    I don't remember that many people considering Sasha a lock for gold, considering her history and Olympic flubs.

    I agree with you re: 2004 though. It's a shame Fumie screwed up the QR so badly, because her short and long programs were terrific.

    Just a note on the poll results: I have a hard time seeing Surya as the best here, considering her basic skating.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2010
  14. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    The thing is even if one considers Sasha's Olympic performance a flop (I thought outside the 2 falls it was her best performance ever, and since she is incapable of skating a clean long it was quite strong overall for her) she still had beaten anyone who was at Worlds by 8 points (Suguri) or more. So based on that she seemed like pretty much a lock for Worlds. I dont remember people talking about Fumie or anyone other than Sasha winning the 06 Worlds, and the people that talked about an upset talked about some teenager who unloaded triples-triples (which is what happened) but not Fumie winning.

    It would have been interesting to see how Fumie would have fared at the 04 Worlds had she not bombed qualifying though.
     
  15. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    For all 5 Worlds between 2002 and 2006, Suguri entered as a legit medal contender but not more, except probably 2006 where many thought the gold would be between the steady Rochette and Suguri, and that Kostner and Cohen would most likely bomb like they did at the Olympics because their heads would likely mess with them when they actually had a real shot at gold entering the event. (At least I thought that way, that she was never going to win an international championship and she most likely peaked at Nationals.)

    Meissner, Meier and Sokolova were final group contenders and most people probably didn't expect anything more than a bronze from one of them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2010
  16. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    2004 Worlds - I think if QR never happened and didn't count, the judges wouldn't be so quick to hold up Arakawa with a visibly cheated 3/3 in the sp and make sure Kwan couldn't catch Cohen. Even with the time deduction, I would at most put Suguri above Kwan in the sp but not Sebestyen.

    SP:

    Cohen
    Kwan
    Suguri
    Sebestyen
    Ando
    Kostner
    Arakawa

    LP:

    Arakawa
    Kwan
    Suguri
    Cohen
    Ando

    Overall:

    Kwan 3
    Arakawa 4.5
    Suguri 4.5
    Cohen 4.5
    Ando 7.5

    2005 Worlds was judged under a different system, but if Suguri had performed her 4CCs performances she had done 1.5 months prior, I would probably give her the silver.
     
  17. bek

    bek Guest

    I don't get that. I thought Cohen's 2005 Worlds performance was one of her better ones.
     
  18. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    So her 2005 Worlds LP was her best by virtue of being the only time she even stayed on her feet in an important competition, while 2006 Olympics was 2nd best big event LP ever, no? That would make it one of her better ones still. And apart from the 2 falls it was her best performance ever, but of course there are the 2 falls which are big.
     
  19. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I agree with judgejudy27. After her two falls, Cohen just let go and performed that routine. It was one of the few times that I actually enjoyed Cohen's skating. I never warmed up to her Nutcracker LP. I thought it was generic and boring.
     
  20. RumbleFish

    RumbleFish New Member

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    I'll have to take Tiffany Chin.
    She would've won the 84 Olys if she had done better at figures.
    During her prime, she showed jumping abilities that can match current top ladies.

    I've never been fond of Suguri's skating.
    All I remember is her going back and forth between triple flips and triple flutzes.
    I was astonished though by her comeback to the Worlds in 09 after being bumped off for 2 years.
    She did whatever it took to get back to the top stage, including taking out Ando during the FS warm up at the Japanese nationals.
    It reminded me that Figure Skating is a tough competitive sport.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2010
  21. MikiAndoFan#1

    MikiAndoFan#1 Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure that was an accident. Fumie would never do that on purpose.
     
  22. RumbleFish

    RumbleFish New Member

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    Who knows if it was intentional or she was concentrating too hard on her warm up?
    It showed her strong will to win regardless of intentions.
     
  23. indicatoto101

    indicatoto101 New Member

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    Has Fumie skated any 7-triple programs?
     
  24. MikiAndoFan#1

    MikiAndoFan#1 Well-Known Member

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    Well, unless Fumie wanted to take a risk and get herself injured, there's no way she would've done that on purpose. And yes, Fumie showed her will to win by skating a clean LP, which resulted in earning the silver medal.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2010
  25. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    Chin was by far the best skater on this list.
     
  26. shady82

    shady82 Active Member

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    I think Cohen only fell once. I rewatched the first part of the program, and the second jump was just a touch-down. She only got -1.00 deduction for falls.
     
  27. Mafke

    Mafke New Member

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    Chin was the most ... inspiring at her very brief peak but I can't think of any time she outight should have won or medalled and didn't (yeah her figures placement in Sarajevo was pretty iffy given her later placements but I'm not sure if she deserved to be that much higher and on the other hand her SP was overrated, Zayak was better there for my money).

    I voted for Bonaly though since she absolutely should have won a world championship (in 1993).
     
  28. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    well, that just makes her exactly like every other woman on the list for me. :D
     
  29. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    While I would definitely put Bonaly's lp ahead of Baiul's, I feel more and more that Chen should have won the lp and overall.
     
  30. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    I thought Chen's sp was very meh. Her spins were typically mediocre, the lutz was a bit squeaky, and none of her characteristic grace was apparent. The odd blend of musical selections didn't help either. On the other hand, Bonaly's sp and fs were her best ever IMO and played up her strengths while disguising her weaknesses. I think this was Surya's absolute peak and Chen, though the jumps were strong, was still quite immature in many areas. I would have put Lulu 5th in the SP and 2nd in the LP, and Surya 3rd in the SP, 1st in the LP with the overall results being 1)Bonaly, 2)Chen, 3)Baiul