Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Apr 29, 2013.
I hope they work out!
I hope this works: it will be nice to see two long-lined skaters, and Viktoria Borzenkova, who is around Bereswill's height, was a favorite of mine.
I'm sure it occurs more than the typical pairs break-up press release would suggest, but that Johns sat down Yankowskas and Reagan to say they weren't a good match was coaching.
Huh. This'll be interesting. U.S. pairs is going to be a real dogfight next year for the Olympic & world teams.
Anyone know why josh and Caitlin didn't work out? They didn't stay together for very long.
Did you read the article?
I'm a fan or Becky Bereswill so I hope this works out for them I also hope that Caitlin Y. can find a partner with which she can skate the best that she possibly can She's just too good of a skater to not be competing.
Oh jeez. So many partner switches. Wonder what Trevor Young thinks of this. As I recall, he was dumped by Becky after one bad Nationals. At that point she was going to try ice dance. Then 2 more years singles, now back to pairs. The height issue is going to be very difficult to overcome here. Don't see how they would ever get a 3twist.
5'6" is very tall for a pairs skater whose partner is only 6 feet. Maybe I could see her with a skater of Simon Shnapir's height but I doubt they will scare any of the top contenders next year.
Agreed and it is just simple physics. If they were dance or even adagio it would be good too although the lifts in dance are a lot more complicated now. A triple twist she will have to do on her own and the lifts are very limited. They will have good jumps and good throws cause she can do those on her own but other issues as we saw before are unavoidable due to height. Even attaining the right force for a death spiral will be hard. I predict this will end very much like Y/R did It sounds like Joshua is trying to recapture the old C/R but not sure that will happened for him. I think C/R worked cause they were lower level but the time senior came along they just could not keep up with the twist and other things that have to have a physics compliment in that advanced level. Wish them well but they have a ton of challenges. I bet their lines will be very nice though.
It can be done though. Jean-Sebastien Fecteau, who won five Canadian pairs medals with two partners (Valerie Saurette and Utako Wakamatsu) from 1997-2006, had a HUGE height difference with his second partner, Wakamatsu, as well. Fecteau was 6'0" and Wakamatsu was 4'11". They not only had a very strong triple twist but an advantage in lifts as well. It's all about how you maximize the difficulty. You even look at especially tall skaters over the years - Evan Lysacek, Laurent Tobel, even Olga Markova in ladies - they made it work to their advantage. I hope these 2 work out for sure! Going to a battle next at Nationals.
I have to disagree because a team skating before 2006 had totally different elements than the pair teams of today. Pair skating has changed as I said only lower levels can handle this as the senior level to be competitive requires so much more. I loved the pairs you mentioned but way back when well lets just say pairs today in the senior level looks NOTHING like the past. Quad twist...triple twist with arms coming down by hips and then catching the girl. More complicated lifts...etc...so I am hopeful but as the other poster said no contest with the top us teams and it is just based on the more difficult elements required to compete against the best in the world. Sometimes I don't even recognize pairs today the element are crazy!
Markova was all of 5ft3. Did you mean someone else, like Volchkova, maybe? Even though she wasn't all that tall, either, more like 5ft6.
For those questioning the Y/R breakup, this is what Reagan said in the article:
And yet James/Cipres are those same heights, and they are doing rather well. But what they are pulling off is incredibly rare, obviously.
It's strange how some pairs you think might work don't, and yet ones you wouldn't think would work actually do. It's almost like magic getting a pair team that's truly a good fit, there's no exact formula.
Poor Caitlin...took them one year to figure out that they were not the right match? I am sure that there is more to the story but she must have been devastated.
Ingo Steuer told James/Cipres that they were not the right match but that they could prove him wrong. I guess they kinda did so far.
Certain timing things could be fixed over time, like getting your SBS jump set-ups to match or adjusting your timing for a throw jump, but other times it just doesn't happen. And, yes that can take months of training to figure that out.
Isn't there always?
Becky is the same height as Ashley Cain, who was quite visibly too tall for Reagan at the end of their partnership. I know Becky is very slight in build, as is Ashley, but even if her weight is comparable to a girl who's several inches shorter, it's still going to make a lot of the elements very difficult.
Also as for James/Cipres, I know James is listed as 5'6" but I have trouble believing she's anywhere close to that considering http://www.goldenskate.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/neb_pairs.jpg
Voloshoshar (listed 5'3"/160 cm and believably that height) appears to be similar in height, even a hair taller than James who doesn't even look significantly taller than Caydee Denney who is only like 5'1".
Also team France in Detroit http://franceolympique.com/files/Image/Equipe-de-France/actualite/2013/detroit3.jpg, they are all in sneakers, Mae Berenice is 5'6" and Pechelat is 5'4" so that would make James around 5'2"-5'3"...no clue how she got listed as tall as 167 cm but she clearly isn't, whereas Bereswill is actually 5'6". So I don't think the situations are really comparable (because from what I reckon James is about 5'2.5" which is a very normal height for a pairs woman)
Wishing the best for this team but it seems like Reagan has been going through partners really quick for awhile now...we'll see how it works out.
Was he dumped? I thought he was on the verge of retirement, and he and Becky agreed to give pairs a shot (I don't think she'd done pairs before working with him).
Am pretty sure she's crouching/bending slightly in that pic. Here is a pic where she & Cipres are both standing up & she's a few inches closer to his height. http://www.flickr.com/photos/skatingpics/8066873575/
And where are her feet in that picture? Not sure what's so clear about her height, but I saw her and Bonheur a few years back in a hotel lobby and remember she was a little taller than my 5ft4 while in regular shoes.
Yeah, she ended it. The Detroit Free Press article is now archived, but in it Trevor said that he felt fine about how things were progressing (they had declared Sochi as the goal right before Nationals), but that she apparently didn't and pulled the plug. This was after the disappointing 10th place at Nationals in 2011. After the split, she was apparently considering ice dance but decided to go back to singles.
Maybe I'm thinking of a different article, but I remember reading a quote from Trevor that he was pleased with how they skated but discouraged by their scores. It seemed pretty clear that he decided it was time to stop skating (for him). He retired from skating and there was a mention that Becky was considering doing ice dance, but then a few weeks later it was announced she switched to Yuka/Jason/DSC to continue her singles training.
I think Becky and Josh are a good match and I hope they have a good first season together.
After giving the partnership a shot, I thought Trevor decided to use his newly obtained college engineering degree to get a job. It was clear that Trevor and Becky were not going to make the top 5 senior pairs at Nationals. He probably needed to earn an income.
Isn't this just Cain/Reagan V.2? Tall girl who can jump? A few posters have said they feel sorry for Caitlin, what about Ashley? It seemed Cain/Reagan were well on their way towards some kind of success and then it just ended, and it ended on Josh's side if I remember correctly.
Oh well, good luck to them, at least we'll have more than 10 Senior Teams at US Nationals this Season.
Someone joked during the senior ladies event at Nationals this year that they couldn't tell Cain and Bereswill apart. This partnership seems like a retread of partnerships that already didn't work; I can't imagine Josh/Becky ever getting a 3twist, for example. They are likely going to come up against the same ceiling that Josh encountered w/ Ashley and that Becky met w/ Trevor.
I thought that Josh's justification for ending his partnership with Ashley was not her height, but instead that she was devoting so much time to singles and he wanted to skate with someone who focused solely on pairs (that and former National Champ Caitlin was lurking....).
BRAVO Reese this is excellently stated. You always want things to work out and wish people well but why did not Josh try out with Andrea popst or? maybe even mary beth? who knows maybe she is ready to give it a go again under less pressure. There were other options and I think Becky is a gorgeous skater for singles or even dance.
They also knew they would never have a huge triple twist which is a MUST at the senior level especially if you want to place top 10 internationally.
The thing is, Becky is probably less consistent than Ashley C., yet she's the same height. I'm not convinced that Josh is progressing in his partnership choices (I hope I'm wrong)
They might be the same height but Bereswill has a really tiny frame.
Is Becky's frame that much tinier or lighter than Ashley Cain's?
In any case, their looks and skating styles seem very similar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT-D1yemRJI Bereswill 2012 Skate Detroit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9-IzIVU9WQ Josh and Ashley 2012 U.S. Nationals FS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRyfUy0YF4A Ashley C 2012 Skyscraper
Becky and Ashley are both very slight, but at 5'6", it doesn't really matter if they only weigh 110 lbs or so, just the length of their limbs and such will make certain things more challenging (like a 3 twist). Weight matters but in pairs when a girl is that tall, even if she only weighs as much as the girls who are 3-4 inches shorter, the dynamics of everything will still be different. Plus a shorter girl with a sturdier build might have more strength and be able to "help" more in a lot of the moves and can afford to be more muscular/sturdier because their weight will still likely be low. You see the same issue a lot in gymnastics, the taller gymnasts tend to be slighter in build, but oftentimes they are less consistent and not as stable, and once you reach a certain height threshold, it becomes very hard to be successful at all. For singles Becky and Ashley are still in a normal height range, towards the taller end for sure but not above the threshold of maybe 5'7" or 5'8", but for pairs, unless they get a partner like Simon Shnapir and even then, I'm skeptical how well they will faire long term, my thoughts being injuries are probably likely to occur.
Becky Bereswill tweeted this photo today of the 7 pairs currently training at Detroit SC:
"Kicking off summer training @dscclub! #pairsparty" http://pic.twitter.com/RmnLBsWpCE
L to R: Madeleine Gallagher/Jonathon Horton (US novice), Narumi Takahashi/Ryuichi Kihara (JPN), Aya Takai/Brian Johnson (US junior), Stefania Berton/Ondrej Hotarek (ITA), Becky Bereswill/Joshua Reagan (US senior), Sumire Suto/Konstantin Chizhikov (new JPN/US team), Kaitlin Budd/Nikita Cheban (US junior).
Dube/Davison won bronze with a double twist in 2008.
You know, I didn't quite think the sport had progressed that much, but checking out Worlds 2013, you'd have to go out of the top ten to find a team without a triple twist. I didn't realize that (back in 2008, four of the top ten went without triple twists in the LP).
Just to play devil's advocate here, S/S won Skate America with only a 2twist in 2011 (they were working on a new entrance to the twist that season, IIRC). Granted, they already have plenty of other qualities to their skating and a score of 124 is actually on the low side for them.
Plus Skate America is early in the season and the GP is set up so that the major competitors don't skate head-to-head as much as possible.
To be fair it wasn't the most difficult field for them to win.
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