Bebe Liang- what held back this very talented and high potential skater

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by itoaxel, Sep 23, 2013.

  1. itoaxel

    itoaxel Member

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    I was a big fan of Bebe Liang back when she skated. What held her back from being a great skater. It looks to me like she had it all- huge jumps, great fast spins, good skating and agressive choreography. Even when she skated really good like the 2005 Nationals short program at a low time for U.S women she still didnt get good marks or placements though.
     
  2. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    IIRC she had some injuries. After she came back, she was not as good as she had been in the past. She was making too many mistakes. Later COP happened.
     
  3. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    Consistency is what held her back at first.

    Although she was a bright light in a really crappy ladies event at 2005 US nationals, I remember her not doing all the difficult jumps because of an injury. Am I remembering incorrectly?
     
  4. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
  5. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    The long program isn't from nationals. Looks like 4 Continents?
     
  6. Quintuple

    Quintuple papillon d'amour

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    I remember at the time of 2005 Nationals, when she was coached by Christy Ness, back at the home rink, my instructor (who I believe may have assisted as well) was really mad. She did go ahead and say that the judges put her below a certain cutesy, skinny skater because of her "look". And that instructor was kind of a cutesy, skinny girl herself. I actually came to the rink that day thinking the same thing.
     
  7. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    I would have definitely had Liang over 4th place finisher Jenny Kirk. I wouldn't have placed Liang over Meissner though, even if it was really popular to hate on Kimmie back in 2005. Regardless all Liang needed was to finish 4th to go to worlds and she certainly deserved to place that high.
     
  8. Spun Silver

    Spun Silver Well-Known Member

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    Her body changed too and she fell a lot. It's a shame that she couldn't figure out how to deliver consistently, or even more consistently, because she was such a firecracker - I always looked forward to her and rooted for her. She was fast, noticeable, and memorable. I would love it if she could translate her gifts into choreography. (I know she has been involved in YAS.) I thought it would be cool if she would choreograph for Mirai - I seem to recall they are friends.
     
  9. FunnyBut

    FunnyBut Well-Known Member

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    She was always a favorite of mine, she had the musicality, the attack and the power, and she was never generic. She was never that consistent in her later years, and under COP she didn't always maintain the highest levels or base value . But what she did do was usually of very high quality, and that wasn't always reflected in the scores. I guess she never had a long enough run that the skating community considered her a serious contender. I would say she was a better skater than she was a competitor.
     
  10. eurodance2001

    eurodance2001 Active Member

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    She should've been ahead of Kirk and Meissner after the SP. Those scores were ridiculously low considering the speed, excitement, and preciseness of the elements all done well with no major mandatory deductions. The presentation was interesting as well..
     
  11. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Her short program should have easily crushed Meissner's though. When you look at the two it is hard not to laugh at Meissner's placing higher. I can see Meissner placing over in the LP due to the triple axel I guess.
     
  12. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I thought in many ways her short program was the best of all the women, even Kwan and Cohen. She should have easily placed atleast 3rd in the short. To be behind Kirk and Meissner shows she was out of favor by then, and the USFSA was already pushing Meissner hard similar to how they are Gold today. All 8 of Meissner's elements were weaker in the short, and everything about her performance was.
     
  13. Rex

    Rex Well-Known Member

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    I loved her - she was a great little tomboy skater. Don't know what the hell happened after 04. She came back that season with her hair in a cliched bun, braces gone and glitzy dresses. It looked like they tried to soften up her skating too. I knew of her injuries, but they turned her into another Stepford skater.
     
  14. Kelvster

    Kelvster Well-Known Member

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    shame indeed that she didn't achieve greater things ....

    oh well, at least she made the world team once and finished in 10th place there ...
     
  15. itoaxel

    itoaxel Member

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    That was amazing. 5.9 technical and 5.9 presentation I would give. 1st place. Terrible scores. Terrible judges. Rotten sport sometimes.
     
  16. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for starting this thread, my first thought was "Aha! Now I know the name of the skater that reminded me of one of the female skaters that skated at SLC last weekend". :)

    Bebe Liang, though I thought for some reason her nickname was "Mighty Mite"? :confused:

    I remember following her career from when she was a junior where she was the tiniest skater on the ice to when her body changed and she was this powerhouse at seniors! :eek: I always rooted for her because of her powerful jumps and determination, alas she fell by the wayside as so very many have done before her because of mental toughness issues.

    Btw, I was delighted to find out she was Mirai's new coach/choreographer because of her work as the latter. :)
     
  17. eurodance2001

    eurodance2001 Active Member

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    You know what? I was thinking of stating this very thing but then thinking I would be chastised.. I completely agree.. Kwan's combo was slow and she was off timing on her spiral to miss the crescendo; Cohen was ok, but also with the hand down and slow.. Bebe's SP was the best of the event that year and was mired down with 5.2'ish marks.. RIDICULOUS..
     
  18. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    Bebe was a wonderful skater. Fast, very powerful, huge jumps, great spins, great, energy, lovely musicality and a wonderful ability to performance and capture a crowd. Bebe was an excellent all-around skater.

    Her nerves are what held her back. She'd get out there and over-think and end up making mistakes. I remember hearing about her practice reports and how they said she was always "on" at practices, nailing all of her jumps...but she could never put it on competition ice. Shame b/c she was an amazing skater.

    It just goes to show that just b/c the talent is there doesn't mean you can be a champion. Everything has to come together at the right time and, unfortunately for Bebe, it never did.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
  19. itoaxel

    itoaxel Member

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    What about the times she did skate really well though, like the 2005 Nationals short program. We all seem to agree she was way underscored there, and she did put it together. So even when she skated great she didnt get the marks.
     
  20. Spun Silver

    Spun Silver Well-Known Member

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    Wait, she IS Mirai's choreographer? Fantastic! Cant wait to see their work at Finlandia.
     
  21. Dr.Siouxs

    Dr.Siouxs Well-Known Member

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    Huge Bebe Fan :respec:
     
  22. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    Politics. Don't forget Bebe was competing at a time when the US ladies field was stacked: Michelle and Sasha, then later Kimmie, Alissa, Emily, Mirai, Caroline, Rachael, Ashley, etc. There was a pecking order (as there still is today) and unfortunately Bebe was rather low on the list...kind of the Christina Gao of back then. Lots of 5th place finishes at nationals and mid to low placements on the GP. I'm sure consistently stronger performances from Bebe would have raised her stock in the eyes of the USFSA considerably, especially after 2006, but she was not a consistent/reliable competitor.

    No, she's not Mirai's choreographer. Mirai's SP and FS were done by Cindy Stuart this year and her EX was done by Adam Rippon. I remember Mirai skated for Bebe during the Young Artist Showcase competition last year and I remember hearing that Bebe had helped Mirai with some of her footwork that season, but she's not credited as her choreographer.

    Here's the to program "Firebird" Mirai skated for Bebe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cBhusabzV1k#t=92

    It's a lovely number. I wish Mirai would have used this as her program...
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
  23. giselle23

    giselle23 Active Member

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    Not a chastisement, but Kwan's timing on her spiral at 2005 Nationals was right on the money. She was off her timing at World's, where she had to re-work the program to comply with COP requirements.
     
    kwanette and (deleted member) like this.
  24. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
  25. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    These would have been my scores for the 2005 Nationals SP:

    Kwan- 5.8 technical, 5.9 presentation
    Bebe Liang- 5.7 technical, 5.7 presentation
    Cohen- 5.5 technical, 5.8 presentation
    Kirki- 5.4 technical, 5.4 presentation
    Meissner- 5.2 technical, 5.1 presentation (clean but average in every conceivable way, quality of jumps, spins, program, performance, meh)

    So I would have had Bebe 2nd. Meissner's performance was literally atleast a whole point inferior yet was still placed above.
     
  26. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    I loved Kimmie as a person but as a skater she was a little meh. The USFSA was excited about Kimmie b/c she had a "triple axel" (so URed it wasn't even funny) but they were trying to give her the cred points heading into a post-Torino landscape. They knew 2006 was going to be a changing of the guard and they were trying to get their ducks in a row early...
     
  27. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    So true. In fairness to Kimmie I do think she earned her 2006 World title and I was very happy for her. Well in some ways it could be questioned as today those triple-triples would never have been credited and dropped her to bronze probably, but it is what it is. I was also sad how her career fizzled out badly starting with 2008 Nationals. Still I agree on her being a terrific lady it is hard to root against, but as a skater meh.

    It just bothers me that skating judging can be so completely devoid of credability, based around political posturing and federation plans and these other things that something like this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVtPNFYYso8

    could ever be placed behind and given considerably lower scores than something like this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzW8VvltVaU

    Honestly I doubt someone could give even a single explanation based strictly on the elements, program, or overall skating how Meissner was placed higher in that particular program. The only explanations would be "other" things that have nothing to do with those two particular performances at all. I have complained about how Hughes was scored vs Nikidinov over the years at Nationals, especialy in 2001, but atleast there even in the cases most strongly disagreed there were atleast a couple justifiable reasons based purely on the performances to place Hughes above. This is a whole other level.
     
  28. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    ^^Geez her arms were terrible, bless her heart.

    It was a strong performance but overall Bebe was much more mature and polished, much more energetic, just overall it was a much better performance. Judges must have been smoking that night...

    I was thrilled for Kimmie when she won in 2006. That was a perfect example of seizing the moment and running away with it and she did. 2007 was a decent year for her but by then Miki and Mao were already climbing to the top of the ladies standings and slowly Kimmie got phased out. That next year she had growth issues and went downhill rapidly...it was really sad to see her struggle like that.
     
  29. eurodance2001

    eurodance2001 Active Member

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    Thanks for the correction and then kwanfan with the link, It was right on.. I was confused with Worlds... In any event, her combo was a bit slow.. Regardless, Kwan is the Queen and I love her then and now, and Bebe was undermarker here terribly..
     
  30. sk8indel

    sk8indel Member

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    Was she the youngest skater to ever debut at Senior nationals?