Back in 94 did you expect Baiul would dominate the sport for years to come

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by hertmirsh, Jul 28, 2014.

  1. hertmirsh

    hertmirsh Member

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    I know looking back at Baiul now it seems most don't believe she was going to win anymore big titles. For lots of reasons. People saw what happened to her body, attitude, and her injuries and skating (even as a pro) years after. People like Kwan and Lipinski brought the technical requirements higher than what they were when Baiul was winning, and Baiul wasnt even doing as much technical content as her rivals then. Also some of the emperor new clothes theory was at play with her, and people realize she wasn't this amazing artist and skater she looked like she was somehow.

    However what did you expect back in 94 when she had just won the Olympics, after winning worlds the year before. At the same time many were predicting her to dominate the next 10 years. It looked like she had her future all in front of her, and would only get better. While there were some up and comers like Szewcenko, 13 year old Kwan, and others, Baiul already had a big lead on them and it seemed she would be hard to be caught. What did you expect.
     
  2. jiejie

    jiejie Active Member

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    I expected that she would turn pro immediately and cash in. Which she did, as the opportunities at that time were there in spades. What I didn't expect was that she would so quickly crash (literally) and burn.
     
  3. sylvestercat

    sylvestercat Member

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    I expected at the exact moment of 94 she would remain a large contender for major titles for the next 4 to 8 years (depending if she decided to go for 1 more quad or 2) and win a lot more major titles, but I didn't expect her to totally dominate and figured she would be challenged after the next year or two (after 94) anyway.

    I guess in hindsight one should expect anyone who achieved anything at all to turn pro then though, thanks to Tonya Harding.
     
  4. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't Oksana supposed to be the former Soviet orphan that rose from the ashes to be crowned queen of the Olympics then move on to success in the figure skating market of the capitalist world.
     
  5. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    Scott Hamilton sure did, implying she might win the next two Olympics.
     
  6. AxelAnnie

    AxelAnnie Well-Known Member

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    Nope.
     
  7. attyfan

    attyfan Well-Known Member

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    ITA. There was too much money to be made by going pro, and with all the press about Oksana's childhood poverty, it would be surprising if she didn't go after the money.
     
  8. Fiero425

    Fiero425 Member

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    Well we all know Hamilton's an idiot and doesn't know what he's talking about most of the time! Hard to believe Oksana would rule; esp. since Surya defeated her at Europeans! How good could she have been if the maligned Bonaly could beat her out with her so called inferior technique? The person that surprised me for jumping ship so soon was Tara! Even Sarah leaving wasn't a shock! Some skaters and handlers know when they're lucky to win that Olympic gold and won't even go to Worlds that season to validate and solidify their huge triumph! MK salvaged her Olympics by taking Worlds after losing in '02; same with Yagudin! He probably should have skipped it! Alexei was never the same and had to retire later that year!
     
  9. itoaxel

    itoaxel Member

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    I am surprised she went pro only since she was so young. Also at the time there didn't seem to be any threats on the horizon. Chen was no threat to her ever, Bonaly wasn't much either, Kerrigan and Sato were retiring, and Szewcenko and Kwan looked along way from challenging her in 94.
     
  10. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Tonya Harding really made any difference. From Sonja Henie's last win thru 1994, every ladies Olympic champion not controlled by a communist government turned pro after winning the OGM. I don't understand why anyone seriously expected any different from Baiul, with or without the pro skating boom.

    IMO going pro was pretty much inevitable esp for her, as she had little to no money of her own. IIRC, Petrenko was covering some of her expenses and I think anyone with an opportunity to become financially self-supporting at that point would jump at it.

    Idiot might be a bit unfair, but he does get overexcited on this particular point. He also thought Tara and Kulik would compete for another quad when calling the event in Nagano.
     
  11. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    Slute won 02 worlds not Kwan.
    This may bring out the Tara-haters, or ardent Kwan fans pretending they aren't biased, but it was such sexism that Tara got crapped on and called a blip on the radar (although I have a feeling Peggy's speech was heavily scripted and submitted to ABC) but Kulik gets off free despite having a short career himself that didn't even include a world title. But maybe people let him off easier because a great Russian rivalry like Yags and Plush was waiting in the wings.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2014
  12. alchemy void

    alchemy void it's time for the perkolator

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    Yes! I thought she would dominate for years!

    Also I was in fifth grade at the time and got a B on a creative writing assignment involving Harding breaking out with warts, so take my 20 year old opinion with a grain of salt...
     
    bardtoob and (deleted member) like this.
  13. Rob

    Rob Beach Bum

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    I thought she'd stay eligible and dominate for at least a couple of years.
     
  14. dawnie

    dawnie Active Member

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    I disagree she would have dominated...she probably could have competed for bronze at 95 Worlds. She never attempted difficult combinations and her post-puberty body would have made her jumps disappear by the 96 season for sure.
     
  15. AxelAnnie

    AxelAnnie Well-Known Member

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    I did not like her at the OLYS, and actually never appreciated her skating. Just never moved me. So, No, I didn't expect her to dominate anything.
     
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  16. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    I expected her to go pro, cash in on her "It" appeal while it lasted, and fade into obscurity.

    I also thought that that thirteen-year-old girl who finished second at that year's U.S. Nationals (What was her name again?) was an up-and-comer and would be dominating the sport ere long.

    Off-the-wall perhaps, but true. :)
     
  17. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I didn't expect her to dominate, but I expected her to continue due to her young age and emergence just one year earlier (1993)
     
  18. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    "Nancy Kwan" - says half of America. I refused to get my heart broken by Nancy Kwan after witnessing Michelle Cho fizzle out. Never have I been so happy to be wrong. ;)
     
  19. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    :duh:

    Thanks. It's hard to keep all these flash-in-the-pan teeny boppers straight. :eek:
     
  20. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Hey. We made this thread about MK.
     
  21. satine94

    satine94 awaiting the scores

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    :rofl:
     
  22. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Granted I was like 8-years-old in 1994 but all I remember about Oksana was that she was the orphan girl (because they kept selling that story down our throats). I just remember my cousins and I (like 15 of us of varying ages) were watching it and after the results we all kept saying how Nancy was robbed and that Oksana only won because she had no parents and the judges felt sorry for her. I had no idea how careers went much less skating careers at 8, but I just kept wondering what will happen to Tonya and Nancy. I thought Oksana would disappear somewhere and buy new parents (I thought she was like 13 not 16).

    Then a few years later, I started watching skating again (like in 1997 or 1998) and I remember confusing Oksana Baiul with Oksana Grishuk. I remember telling my cousin that I watched skating the other night and that orphan Oksana is now skating with some man thinking that it was pairs skating (I didn't know there were two disciplines where a man and woman skated together).

    Now many years later, I still think Nancy should have won (but not win the LP) but I, like most skating fans, much prefer Oksana's skating.
     
  23. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    I remember thinking Nancy was robbed too and going to work and school the next day and it seemed everyone disagreed with me. My teacher in particular became nearly hysterical when I said Nancy was robbed. It wasn't until a few years later when I found the internet that I realized that I wasn't crazy and most knowledgeable fans thought Nancy was robbed too.
     
  24. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    I see enough difference in their situations to justify the different perception. For starters, Kulik was 5 years older, already an adult, while Lipinski was only 15. Her extreme youth was a big part of her media story. Secondly, Kulik's senior career spanned a full Olympic quadrennium, with his first major senior title (Europeans) coming at the beginning of that quad in 1995. Lipinski didn't make it to her first Worlds until a year's later, with her first major title only the season before Nagano. So, basically, he was seen as a top contender for 4 seasons, she only for two. Plus, as you mentioned, with Yagudin and Plushenko already around, Kulik did seem more retirement eligible. Had Yagudin won Nagano and retired, I think the Tara comparison would have been more apt. Conversely, if Kwan had won and retired, I don't think there would have been any criticism, as she had done her full 4 year cycle.

    It might have been nice to see both Tara and Ilia continue, but whatever else their reasons, they were both probably smart to stop when they did. Her hip would not have tolerated much more and Ilia's back had started to act up whenever he trained the quad toe very much.

    I'm curious what combination of ordinals you think should have led to this result. With Kerrigan second in the long, then Baiul needed to have been 4th or worse in the SP not to win. A toepick touch on the 3 lz is not a big enough error to drop her behind Lu Chen, who had a much bigger error in her combination, with a UR and two foot landing, stumbling out of the 2 toe.

    Or were you thinking Baiul should have placed 3rd or lower in the long and somebody other than Kerrigan or Bonaly in 1st? ( I don't know if that is even mathematically possible. Lu was 4th after the SP, and 4-1 = 3 ordinals, still leaving her behind Kerrigan with 1-2 = 2.5 ordinals.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2014
  25. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I think it was something like:

    1. Nancy Kerrigan 0.5 + 3.0 = 3.5
    2. Lu Chen 2.0 + 2.0 = 4.0
    3. Yuka Sato 3.5 + 1.0 = 4.5
    4. Oksana Baiul 1.0 + 4.0 = 5.0
     
  26. tristanwirtz

    tristanwirtz New Member

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    Sato should have been 5th in the short over Szewcenko and Witt, so deserved the gold with her 1st placed LP and Nancy's 3rd.
     
  27. tristanwirtz

    tristanwirtz New Member

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    Knowledgable fans are often just snobs who think they know more than everyone else. Casual fans are smarter and better, and the ones who drive the sport.
     
  28. hertmirsh

    hertmirsh Member

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    You are misinterpreting the question. I know now it seem obvious she wouldn't have dominated. I am not talking about what we know or how things look now. I am talking about what you thought back in 1994, before we know anything of the last 20 years.

    I do think even now she would have had a great shot at winning the 94 and 95 worlds though. Chen won the 95 worlds with only 5 triples, and the type of jump layout Baiul despite being criticized for her lack of technical content always did, and the judged always far preferred Baiul to Chen. If Baiul simply skated at her usual 93/94 level she would win the 95 worlds no problem. 94 there is probably a good chance the judges would give it to her over Sato as well if she skated decently, regardless if deserved or not.
     
  29. Dilng

    Dilng Well-Known Member

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    :lol: so true! :) I was rooting for Oksana as Nancy's skating did nothing for me. She was always so stiff and bland. I loved Oksana's musicality and personality. She was very enchanting.
     
  30. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    This whole nonsense that Sato deserved to win the long program is a brand new phenomenon (bandwagon) that everyone is jumping on now. :lol: I can understand Lu Chen maybe winning the long, although that argument is one that started popping up in the late 90s and everyone bandwagoned on too, but Sato? Please. Next people will be arguing Nathalie Krieg deserved 3rd in the long and placing Kerrigan and Baiul 9th,10th in the long in either order.

    And yet again, the Baiul supporters don't disappoint by using such terms as "enchanting" to justify her win. :lol: