Award a Gold Medal to Denis Ten for his Performance at the 2013 World Figure Skating

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by lala, Mar 25, 2013.

  1. sequins

    sequins New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    826
    Just checked to see how they're doing in their bid to reach 10,000. 770? Doesn't look promising. Why didn't they just have a petition to ask them to make changes to the judging system? Certainly would've been a more successful petition I'm sure. What does simply awarding another gold medal solve? Nothing. Makes everyone feel 'all better' until the next time it happens. Also if you're gonna have a petition like this you shouldn't allow comments from people. LOL Some of them are hilarious. I like the one from Japan who also thinks Mao should be given the gold too.:lol: Yes and I'd like the 8th place dance team and the 15th place pairs team all moved up 3 spots, and the 6th place skater on the mens and womens side moved down 2 spots because that's what I think should've happened.Where do I sign?
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  2. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    13,349
    The whole problem is the current mostly stupid judging system which produces results like this, was a knee jerk reaction from a wrong and media created 2nd gold medal 11 years ago in the first place. So on that I will agree, it is not a proper solution, and it only led to disaester and a system that led to further decline of the sport last time it happened. Figure skating is not a decathalon, the overall impression has always been hugely imporant. Results cant be arrived at accurately simply by tabulating points, and it just leaves about 30 places for judges to cheat or favor their favorites rather than 2 sets of marks to do so like before anyway.
  3. SGrand

    SGrand New Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    Messages:
    38
    Amen!
  4. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Messages:
    17,494
    The IOC awarded the second gold medal, not the media.
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  5. bbkenn

    bbkenn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2002
    Messages:
    1,264
    Thank you.
  6. bbkenn

    bbkenn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2002
    Messages:
    1,264
    This^^^
  7. bbkenn

    bbkenn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2002
    Messages:
    1,264
    Excellent post
  8. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,508
    ^^ I agree that no skater should be attacked and mocked. Shame that it happens to skaters all the time on FSU and on other skating forums, eh?

    The judging system is not the skaters' fault. This whole experience of winning multiple times for less than stellar performances has certainly been a conundrum for Patrick, and an unfortunate series of events for a remarkable skater who works very hard and should be able to enjoy his victories, not have to defend them. The fault lies squarely with the ISU and with the judging system and the judges. It's a problem to continually send a skater the message that they are exceptional enough to win consistently with major errors, simply because of above-average SS. The sport needs to appreciate that all skaters should practice figures if they have a hope of being as good as Patrick Chan is with his blades. But the main problem is over-rewarding some skaters, and under-rewarding others: i.e., inconsistent judging.

    I think Patrick seems to have a personality where he is not allowing his debatable wins and people's reactions to bother him too much negatively, but who knows? Is Worlds 2013 the straw that breaks the camel's back? Certainly, Patrick hasn't allowed the cruel belittling stuff his fans and critics have said all season long about Kathy Johnson to deter him from his decision to retain her as his coach, at least so far.


    In addition, I think it would be helpful for every skater to take dance and movement classes. I was frankly appalled by some of the performances of the lesser known skaters in the men's event. It just seems that there was a lot of sloppy/ nonexistent technique and lack of body awareness going on. Part of the problem appears to be the overly regimented IJS requirements as to why some of these skaters seemed to be taking on more than they could handle.

    The unevenness of the judging was very apparent in general and particularly among those early groups in the men's event. Someone like Christopher Caluza who was placed last in the sp!? Sure he made costly technical errors, but his overall refinement and SS were way above so many of the guys placed in front of him. Chris was dealt with extremely harshly -- perhaps his early skate order hurt him. But even though Ross Miner skated last in the last sp group, he was also low-balled with his scores, especially in comparison to mistakes made by skaters he's better than overall and/ or comparable with who were placed ahead of him in the sp. The problem is a judging system based on picking apart and throwing numbers at all the branches, bark and leaves on particular trees, rather than understanding and nourishing the roots and soil which allow the trees to grow, and rather than actually seeing and appreciating the forest of a whole performance.

    I certainly can understand kittysk8ts desire to give Patrick a hug. For me, the skaters I'd most like to give a hug and words of encouragement are Christopher Caluza, Paul Bonifacio Parkinson, Tomas Verner, Dai Takahashi, and Ross Miner. And I'd love to give a pat on the back and congrats to Denis Ten, to Javier Fernandez, to Max Aaron, to Brian Joubert, to Misha Ge, and to Patrick Chan for his sp.
  9. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,508
    There's no doubt that Osmond is good, and she has the IT factor -- something that can't be taught. Still, it helped for her to be skating in home country to a degree.* She deserved a good placement in the sp, but as a newbie without backing whether from a strong fed or as in Yu Na's case, without strong early buzz and achievements as a junior, it's difficult to get high scores in a Worlds debut. Certainly luck, skate order, and actual performance quality are factors, but politics does play a role. Yu Na had much more high visibility and buzz well before she came on the senior scene than Osmond had. The level of Osmond buzz pretty much started once this season began, even though she was highly regarded before then by those in the know who were aware of her.

    If Worlds had taken place in Japan, the venue being different might have affected the skaters differently and as well, the judging would have been slightly different, IMO. Same, if it had taken place in Russia (perhaps the baby ballerinas would have done better -- certainly the judging would have been more favorable). I'm not saying fixed results, but just the goings-on in terms of behind-the-scenes politicking which involves buzz and who says what to the judges, and what various federations say to their representatives on the technical and judging panels. And also of course, how skaters are viewed in terms of reputation/ recent results coming into the competition, and how they perform in practices.


    ETA:
    * I'm not suggesting anything to do with collusion or conspiracy, just having an edge re skating in home country, which clearly has historically been a factor in skaters' favor. Of course skating at home, a skater needs to be competitive and they need to skate well or there's little advantage, most of the time.
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2013
  10. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    25,229
    Exactly. I would have supported that (rule changes). I am not going to sign a petition that sounds silly.
  11. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Messages:
    17,494
    Not "clearly" and not "historically". Often it is a huge disadvantage because of the expectations and pressure.

    A skater needs to be competitive and to skate well to have an advantage no matter where the competition is being held.
  12. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2002
    Messages:
    3,441
    The problem is, we won't know how the skaters afterwards will perform, and can only use the skaters who have skated previously as a relative reference point of component scores.

    The only skaters that were left to skate after Denis Ten in the SP were Chan, Takahashi and Miner. Here were the component scores to that point:

    9 Yuzuru HANYU JPN 40.82
    2 Denis TEN KAZ 40.75
    7 Javier FERNANDEZ ESP 40.56
    5 Brian JOUBERT FRA 39.97
    6 Michal BREZINA CZE 39.17
    10 Florent AMODIO FRA 38.74
    3 Kevin REYNOLDS CAN 37.47

    In hindsight, was Denis Ten's component scores relative to only these skaters listed actually correct for the short program?
  13. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2004
    Messages:
    1,330
    Good point. Hanyu bombed his SP and Daisuke also had a fall IIRC and got higher PCS than Ten. Where is the Wuzzrobbed or Wuzzgifted in this situation from the Chan haters / judges are cheating criers??
  14. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2012
    Messages:
    2,685
    Like always, my rule is selective.;)
  15. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Messages:
    321
    And don't need evidence or proof.:shuffle:
  16. mustafinabars

    mustafinabars Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2012
    Messages:
    95
    Awarding a 2nd gold is no solution. Ten was robbed, he should have won easily over a way overscored Chan, but 2nd medals are always stupid and never solve anything. A better solution is to now fix the judging problems that the sport are getting worse and worse in now. In the end nobody is really a winner, Chan isnt considered a real winner of the event, and the person who should have got the gold medal can never have that moment given to him now either. If they should do anything just leave the title vacant like the 94 U.S ladies when Harding was stripped.
    Louis and (deleted member) like this.
  17. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Messages:
    321
    You mean then they should leave 2002 pairs title vacant? And they also should leave 2012 NHK title vacant?;) Oh, what about 2011 Japan Nationals title? Should Takahashi's title be stripped too?:lol:
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2013
  18. reut

    reut Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2008
    Messages:
    702
  19. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2012
    Messages:
    2,685
    So Ted Wilson thinks figure skating will be 'eliminated from Olympics'? Well, figure skating does not need to part of Olympics to survive does it? Figure skating federations are then free to create their own competitions to the rules they prefer rather than to the rules set up by ISU. That should bring back the audience to figure skating as Ted Wilson claims.
  20. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,520
    If figure skating is removed from the Olympics, the numbers of women viewing in wealthy nations like Japan and USA will go down about 50% or more. They will not watch the women's bobsled instead. I think Ted Wilson is crazy and must believe that pigs will fly.
  21. munow

    munow New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2013
    Messages:
    99
    Denis Ten didn't deserve the gold or silver.
  22. karlon

    karlon New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    163
    .
    Last edited: May 27, 2013
  23. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Messages:
    17,494
    Not to mention that the IOC's TV revenues would drop as well, which the IOC will never allow to happen. Especially while $peedy is a member of the IOC executive committee.
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  24. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,508
    No matter whether Ted Wilson might be deemed crazy for his opinions, I think this quote from him may have wings:


    :lol: As a fan of Jeremy Abbott, it'd be rockin' to see pigs fly in Sochi!
  25. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    4,246
    Oh, please.
  26. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    13,349
    In that case Patrick Chan didnt deserve as high as 4th or 5th place.
  27. PeterG

    PeterG Argle-Bargle-ist

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2002
    Messages:
    8,630
    OH YAH???? WELL I THIK THAT VICTOR ROMANEKOV DID NOT DESRVE TWENTY-SECOND!!! YAKOV GODOROZH WAS ROBBED!!!!
  28. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    18,029
    I TOTALLY AGREE!!!!!!
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  29. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Messages:
    321
    Well, I don't think figure skating will ever be kicked out of Olympics.:p
  30. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,508
    ^^ Alas, the IOC threatened to kick figure skating out of the Olympics post Salt Lake City pairs judging scandal, and so IJS/ CoP was born/ quickly forced into being.
  31. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,520
    Are you threatening us aftershocks with a new and improved, more objective scoring method?
    spikydurian and (deleted member) like this.
  32. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Messages:
    321
    Figure skating has survived Salt Lake City. It will survive again.

    No matter how it changes, the subjectivity in figure skating can never change. In fact, on one hand those people are unhappy with the subjective results. On the other hand, what they are wishing for is a change towards more subjectivity.;)
  33. sadya

    sadya Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    410
    If I remember well, somewhere in the '90s the IOC or perhaps the ISU threatened to kick figure skating out of the Olympics because of ice dancing, I can't remember if they meant just the ice dancing or all of it.
  34. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    18,029
    I WANT MORE SUBJECTIVITY!!!
  35. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,544

    GO PETERG!! PETERG FOR PREMIER! PETERG TO REPLACE SPEEDY!!
  36. Scrufflet

    Scrufflet Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2006
    Messages:
    515
    :lol::lol::lol:
    Go PeterG!!!!
  37. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2012
    Messages:
    2,685
    :rockstar: PG
    PeterG and (deleted member) like this.
  38. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Messages:
    321
    More subjectivity is the main reason that figure skating might be possibly kicked out of Olympics though.:lol:
    Last edited: May 28, 2013
  39. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,544
    Who cares.... we will award a Platinum medal no better than that a diamond studded platinum medal!
    TheIronLady and (deleted member) like this.
  40. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2001
    Messages:
    3,804
    I like how some of you think. Thanks for the chuckle on this wet and overcast day.