Award a Gold Medal to Denis Ten for his Performance at the 2013 World Figure Skating

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by lala, Mar 25, 2013.

  1. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    While I don't agree with the system that allows results like this, these are the rules! you can win with falls. Do I like it? No. Do we have to accept it? Pretty much.

    Wouldn't a petition to change the rules regarding falls/SP % of score be more beneficial?
     
  2. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    If harsher penalties had already been in place for falls, Carolina Kostner might not have won Europeans this year and who knows what her placement would have been at Worlds...:rolleyes:
     
  3. mossop

    mossop New Member

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    BE CAREFUL. TWO CAN PLAY THE GAME.
     
  4. bek

    bek Guest

    I'm fine with more penalities for falls, I frankly don't care who it hurts.
     
  5. modern_muslimah

    modern_muslimah Thinking of witty user title and coming up blank

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    But then what we will we fight about on FSU? :drama:
     
  6. Louis

    Louis Tinami 2012

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    I signed the petition. I don't agree with all of it, and I don't think it will do a lick of good. That said, I have nothing left to lose. I've lost all interest in skating in its current form. I watched the ladies free at last year's Worlds, and the men's and ladies' free at this year's Worlds only because of the friends I've made through skating. World Pros and Ice Wars had more legitimacy. With the team competition and vocal music on the way, I'm sure ISU skating will be there soon enough.

    I don't think Patrick Chan's win is an isolated case by any means, but it is a scandal that can propel change -- if people want it to. But maybe people either don't care or have given up, and the fans who defend the system are content with watching once-a-year on Latvian TV. That's fine. But good for Monica Friedlander and the people who signed this petition for still caring. I'll stand with you.

    Until then, I'll lurk around here waiting for the next Jill Trenary or Laetitia Hubert thread. :lol: ;)
     
  7. bek

    bek Guest

    I'm still not sure I'll sign the petition. I'd be more likely to sign a petition with significant rule changes, than one that targets taking anyone's gold away.. I may scream about Chan's results, but I wouldn't necessarily take a gold medal from him. However pretty clearly it seems, this is not just Americans "angry about the results." It seems fans all over the world don't like falling all over the place champions....
     
  8. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

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    The concern and caring for figure skating is vastly misplaced in this petition. I'm a Chan Uber, I agree with his scoring given the current system and thus agree with his win. That being said I've also thought a -1 deduction for all fall in a scoring system that gives 150~200 pts for a program is way too low and would be in total support of a revision to the IJS that would have give Denis Ten the Gold. A "fan" should help rightly direct the issue to the IJS itself with educated reasoning but not judging conspiracy or corruption. This petition is stupid and does nothing to help figure skating except driving the sport further into the laughing stock level.
     
  9. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I would rather see Takahashi get his deserved gold medal from the 2012 World Championships. That was an even worse decision. Either way hopefully this is a further sign to the ISU how low they have let figure skating sink with their despicable judging at times of late, especialy when it involves a certain Mr. Chan.
     
  10. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Kostner often places higher than she deserves in the views of many. I hope you arent implying that what you are saying would be a bad thing.
     
  11. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Lets see I could fee symphaty for starving children around the World who never really had a shot at life, people in Middle Eastern countries murdered for either being gay, being jewish, or being women, or being forced to have babies at 11 or marry men they dont even know at 12; or feel sorry for a spoiled brat who gets handed World and Olympic titles, fame and fortune, and a place in history all on a silver platter simply for showing up, even if he falls on his ass 5 or 6 times each time out, which even the bottom finishers at World events typically dont do. I will choose the former thank you.

    Well atleast he is in touch with reality about one thing. That is refreshing to know.
     
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  12. Eladola

    Eladola Active Member

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    I think the Petitioners might also believe that other than the falls in the Free skate,
    The gap of 7 points between the 2 performances in the SP is in part because of reputation and federation differences ... ?

    I realize it feels weird for us to have someone's scores bloated too high who hasn't even been on the radar,
    But i would understand some people not really caring or accepting of that too, Especially ones who don't follow as closely
     
  13. bek

    bek Guest

    Wow Judy,I really disagree here. I don't like some of Patrick's comments but I don't think its right to call the guy names. Most of us don't know Patrick and I don't think its fair to denigrate his character. Its one thing to disagree with his results, and or to be meh on his comments its another to start going into personal attacks about him as a human being. I have never met him, and so I can't judge him either way. He could be a really nice guy for all you know with perhaps a foot in his mouth disease! Besides probably most top athletes have to be convinced they are the best...Patrick worked incredibly hard to get as far as he has in this sport and to have those absolutely gorgeous skating skills.

    I'm not going to start calling him names because I think the judges are a little to nice to him.

    Patrick just skates, he doesn't mark himself, and I doubt he even (when I criticize his comments) really saw how Denis or others skated.

    I feel sorry for all of the skaters in this mess and that includes Chan.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 26, 2013
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  14. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

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    I know JJ has me on his ignore list but now I also feel sorry for him.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013
  15. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    For me someone who has publicly done all of:

    1. Mouths off about someone putting a reef on their head in the kiss and cry at the Games (Weir), which is obviously none of his business.
    2. Whines excessively about others scores (Joubert 2009 Worlds and into 2009-2010 season) when they themselves are one of the most held up skaters in history.
    3. Crows out loud in the kiss and cry at a grand prix event "the judges really wanted to give me that score" after a 3 fall performance nets a monstrous score (Skate Canada 2010).
    4. Publicly states your competitor who doubled a jump made as many mistakes as your 4 or 5 major error performance.
    5. Whines about not getting enough attention from your own country, and contemplates outloud if they were Chinese instead (last year).
    6. States that quads are not everything and disses others for being only about quads, then upon mastering the quad mocking others for not doing enough quads (eg- criticizing Takahashi for not doing a quad in the short program in fall of 2010).

    Is a spoiled brat. That is my opinion and I dont have to spend every waking moment with him to have determined that, nor do I have to defend it to anyone. I am not anywhere close to the first one who has referred to him as such on this forum alone, never mind beyond the tiny speck in the World that is this forum.
     
  16. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    If you can't even bother to distinguish between a reef and a wreath......
     
  17. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Although I don't agree with the petition (we certainly don't want results determined by popular vote) nor will I think it will actually make a difference, I do think something is said that the very few journalists who even write about skating are bringing attention to the discontent about the Mens 2013 Worlds results. Couple that with some of the negativity we've seen in social media by actual skaters who do have credibility whether you agree with them or like their skating, and we have a PR nightmare for skating.

    Of course this negativity won't last long and people will forget about it once the Olympic season starts, but I have a feeling if something like this happened during the Olympics with much more media scrutiny and viewers, then skating is going to have to prepare itself for an onslaught of negative attention. Ignoring it or telling people to know the rules better won't make the problem go away. Like it or not, the masses' perception of a sport do matter in terms of interest (which is already to the point where skating is just a niche sport) and credibility no matter how fair or justifiable the results are to the internet skating fans/"experts." With the code the way it is now, I think they need to prepare for it now just in case.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013
  18. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely not. I am aware of the views of many on message boards that Carolina would be constantly held up by the judges - btw, I remember you disagreed with them in another thread where you said Kostner was probably held up only in 2008.

    You won't hear me complain if the ISU decides to introduce more severe deductions for falls so long as they are applied to all the skaters. I assume that a harsher penalty would make the skaters work more on their consistency on the jumps and if it's transitions that get in the way of consistency, let them do away with most of those transitions. After all, how many casual viewers of figure skating can recognize transitions or appreciate the difficulty of skating and jumping with transitions? Maybe figure skating should be made more audience-friendly? I mean I suppose most of us figure skating fans can understand empty but clean programs winning medals and titles but I suspect way fewer of us can understand complex choreographies winning medals with falls. Maybe Chan should stop pushing himself? Yes, I do think he is pushing himself, the speed and flow he carries skating into the quadruple/triple in the FS for instance is mind-blowing, and he moves his arms while gliding towards the take-off spot and he skates on one foot and has a very short entry. But I don't think it's worth the trouble, the type of skating Chan proposes is not successful with the general audiences because he falls. I've noticed quite a few people don't even agreee with the official judged that Chan would have the best skating skills, for one thing they don't see anything special in his skating and for another, are those judges kidding me? How can a skater who falls have better skating skills than a skater who doesn't fall? Chan is held up because, to quote Johnny Weir, when you fall you lose. Simple as that.

    So let the ISU make the changes they deem fit for most of the fans to be happy with the results, especially at the coming Olympics.:D I suppose that a clean Gracie Gold would be a much more acceptable Olympic medalist than a flawed Carolina Kostner.:)
     
  19. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Lately, it seems that this is what a lot of 'fans' (read: morons) would like the sport to become.

    That is because the 'many' are ignorant fools who should get shot. Honestly, this whole Worlds bullshit is turning me into a fascist.

    If you aren't able to notice that Kostner has the best skating skills in the world, skates to the music very well and has the most complex programs (honestly the gap between her and the other Ladiezzz in that regard is just huge), then you should either get your eyesight tested or go get a clue.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013
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  20. Eladola

    Eladola Active Member

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    If you think that by Olympics, If Gold goes clean with everything she will lose to a multi mistake Kostner, I think you're mistaken,
    All things considered .
     
  21. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    haha, whats with the roll eyes? Im hardly a Kostner uber.
    I think there should be harsher penalties for falls... even if were to hurt my gal Mao.
     
  22. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    Good thing about this thread and petition, I now know the posters better.;)
     
  23. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

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    Ten did not skate to an equally difficult freeskate choreography as Chan did, and also Chan had a quad-triple combination plus a quad, Ten only a quad. Ten deserved to win the freeskate, which he did. He did not deserve to win the whole competition, although the result came very close and Ten would have won it by doing a liiiittle bit more.
     
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  24. EricRohmer

    EricRohmer New Member

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    This.
     
  25. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

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    And Ten seemed over the moon about his silver medal, as did Fernadez about his bronze. I think both are happier than Chan is, with medals that mean more to them. Especially Ten - he had two skates of his life and delivered two signature programs that people will want to watch over and over again. And earned a medal that no one, and Ten most of all, saw as likely.

    I doubt he is feeling sorry for himself. Chan OTOH is feeling persecuted, regardless of whether or not one thinks he should. He hasn't won Olympic Gold yet and I'm sure he knows it is by no means a sure thing. More stress for him than for the other two.
     
  26. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    As Harry Truman said: "if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen".

    I think fans feel rather helpless about all of this, thus the petition. Maybe it is an ill conceived idea, but I guess they feel they are at least doing something.
     
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  27. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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    Good one :)
     
  28. Dave of the North

    Dave of the North Well-Known Member

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    There will be no changes to the scoring system until after the Olympics. In that case the only thing callers can do is be more strict on Chan for URs etc. But that's not something he does very often. (more strictness on URs will hurt Takahashi and Reynolds more than Chan) So the only other thing they can do is be more strict with handing out +2/+3 or back off on the PCS marks *if* he falls. There will be nothing official about this, but a lot of whispering behind the scenes. In that case Chan's strategy should be to double some jumps if he at all feels any risk of falling. He will still have enough margin to win and everyone will be happy that the OC didn't fall. :EVILLE:
     
  29. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    judgejudy, if that's the case, you could also spend more time bitching about the starving children, murdered Middle Eastern people, and the atrocious treatment of women in the world as opposed to Chan, who gets World and Olympic titles handed to him on a silver platter (though you've mocked him in the past for his lack of fame or fortune due to the decline, so I don't know why you threw that in their), but I suspect that you don't.
     
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  30. BlueRidge

    BlueRidge AYS's snark-sponge

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    Snarks aside, this is actually the likely outcome. Not for Chan necessarily but for the competition. The pressure will lead judges to feel it necessary to mark down by more a skater who falls. The best skater who has one fall will lose to a skater with either less skill overall or less challenging content.

    And then the screaming about how its such a scandal will start up once again and figure skating will go down another notch.