Australian dispute over women's Olympic spot to have Court of Arbitration (CAS) hearing

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Dec 3, 2013.

  1. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    In the cases listed on the CAS website, it's usually an athlete or and athlete teaming with an organizations vs. a federation, agency, and organization on the other. Kerry wouldn't have a direct beef with Han in court, but she does with the Australian skating federation, if the Federation is breaking its own rules in treating Han as eligible.

    Results by Chantelle Kerry in the last two seasons to date:

    2012-13 Four Continents x Senior Ladies SP 13 Chantelle KERRY AUS 43.93 25.31
    2012-13 Four Continents x Senior Ladies FS 14 Chantelle KERRY AUS 74.18 37.57
    2012-13 JGP Bled Junior Ladies SP 23 Chantelle KERRY AUS 31.57 16.21
    2012-13 JGP Bled Junior Ladies FS 19 Chantelle KERRY AUS 65.19 32.64
    2013-14 JGP Gdansk Junior Ladies SP 10 Chantelle KERRY AUS 42.92 24.56
    2013-14 JGP Gdansk Junior Ladies FS 8 Chantelle KERRY AUS 81.02 41.89
    2013-14 JGP Tallinn Junior Ladies SP 12 Chantelle KERRY AUS 43.87 24.92
    2013-14 JGP Tallinn Junior Ladies FS 18 Chantelle KERRY AUS 67.31 32.07
    2012-13 JGP Zagreb Junior Ladies SP 10 Chantelle KERRY AUS 40.96 23.58
    2012-13 JGP Zagreb Junior Ladies FS 10 Chantelle KERRY AUS 73.6 38.78
    2013-14 Ondrej Nepala Senior Ladies SP 9 Chantelle KERRY AUS 45.81 24.33
    2013-14 Ondrej Nepala Senior Ladies FS 9 Chantelle KERRY AUS 81.71 42.43
    2013-14 Skate Down Under Senior Ladies SP 1 Chantelle KERRY AUS 53.82 28.94
    2013-14 Skate Down Under Senior Ladies FS 1 Chantelle KERRY AUS 83.74 39.74

    She's made the Olympics/4C's TES minimums at all events except JGP Tallinn. She made the Worlds SP TES minimum at Skate Down Under, for once in 14 attempts.

    So far this season, her totals are:
    Han's totals have been:
    Han has made the Olympics/4C's minimums in all but the JGP Mexico City, and the Worlds TES minimums 11 times in 20 attempts.

    In head-to-head competition,
    Han withdrew from Skate Down Under.
     
  2. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

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    Everyone is allowed to have any option of what is good and right, Australian or not. But many of the people in this thread, including those with harsh worse towards Chantelle, are Australian. I think Chantelle is a bad sport, I think she's got sour grapes, I think she has done nothing to earn a spot to the Olympics, and I don't have any respect for her as a person anymore. I will no longer watch her skating the same way, even though this is not about the skating, and that's what an Olympic spot should be about. I think it's terrible that her parents would let this get to this point, and like I said, I hope she looses dismally to Brooklee at Nationals and then is denied her appeal. She is not arguing she has earnt a spot at the Olympics, she's done nothing to earn it, she's arguing against someone else, who has earnt it, going, just because she wants to be handed the spot, "free" if you will.

    "We Aussies" don't get to decided, it's in the hands of CAS now. I hope they do the right thing, like they did with the previous appeal. They decided Brooklee could skate for the spot, now they should let her kept the spot she earnt.

    kwanfan, CAS already agreed that Brooklee IS eligible, because it denied Chantelle's previous appeal against Brooklee skating for an Olympic spot. They decided Brooklee could skate for a spot, which was saying she is eligible.
     
  3. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    It would be impossible to enforce consistent rules across countries, because different countries have different levels of development in their skating systems, different numbers of skaters at different competitive levels, and so on.

    Besides, the ISU does a bad enough job of screwing things up at the international level. It would be :scream: if it also had the power to interfere with individual federations' choices for who to send to competitions.
     
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  4. can'tsk8

    can'tsk8 Member

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    I think Brendan Kerry has competed in US competitions as he is based permanently in USA, I just wonder what makes Chantelle think Brooklee does not have permission from ISA, let's hope Brendan has had permission or this case could bite the family on the butt!!! This really is making Monica McDonald and Chantelle look like very very bad sports! Let's hope David Kranjec doesn't try this on Brendan!!
     
  5. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    Using harsh words on Chantelle is not going to right the wrong. 'We Aussies' is meant to be the Australian authorities who will make the decision. I think words like 'you are the worst character' is too judgemental on a young lady, and the people who are using those harsh words on behalf of Brooklee are not doing Broooklee any favours. It just gets uglier and uglier. I hope the Australian Skating Authorities will now come up with a clear cut guideline in future about eligibility so that there should be no future challenges.
     
  6. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

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    CAS is not the "Australian authorities". ISA already have clear, published guidelines, which Brooklee met. Chantelle is arguing that she met them while not being eligible to meet them. CAS already decided she WAS eligible to skate for a spot on the Olympic team, and actually it was already reported that Brooklee was going to the Olympics. Chantelle is now trying again, because she's a bad sport, not because ISA's guidelines aren't clear and Chantelle thinks she earnt the spot.
     
  7. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    I agree it does seem like bad sportsman on Chantelles side.

    I also think it is kinda mad to skate for a country in which you neither live nor were born, but whatevs.
    I have actually seen Brooklee at the Ice House a few times.

    What happened with Jo Carter in 2006? Would have Miriam done any better?
     
  8. Kelvster

    Kelvster Well-Known Member

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    Going back to Miriam Manzano ... I recall somehow that at least, in Manzano's case, she missed the opportunity to compete in 2002 (can't remember the exact reason why, but Stephanie Zhang was picked) and she also beat Joanne Carter at Nationals in 2006. . So I had a tiny little bit of sympathy for Manzano, especially considering that she made it to the free programme at Worlds a couple of times (in 2002, and 2004 I think) (Though I still thought Joanne deserved to go, having won the spot at Worlds in 2005 and beaten Manzano at the 4CCs, which the committee had set as the deciding competition. Joanne was always just full of fire and attack on the ice, and her free programme at Worlds in 2005 was just brilliant. The best skater that Australia has produced in recent decades IMO)

    In Kerry's case, I just don't see any strong justifications. She doesn't even have the World TES minimum for the free programme, by the sounds of it .........
     
  9. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    Ahh k, I always wondered what happened. Thanks :)
     
  10. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

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    Why is it mad? She's Australian, and she knows she has a better chance skating for Australia than the US. Sounds sensible, rather than mad, to me. She didn't need to change citizenship, it was no hassle or expensive saga. She was born as much Australian as any other Australian, and as much Australian as American, according to Australian citizen requirements (she'd qualify for Australian citizenship by descent, even if she never lived in Australia and was born elsewhere as well).
     
  11. Mayra

    Mayra Well-Known Member

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    What a bizarre case of self-entitlement by Team Kerry. Shame.
     
  12. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    I think after this saga, the ASF should tighten or clarify this rule regarding citizenship to avoid further unhappiness among competing skaters.
     
  13. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

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    :huh: anyone born to an Australian parent can have Australian citizenship. It is nothing to do with Ice Skating Australia; it is federal law. Brooklee was born eligible for Australian citizenship. ISA has no say in that; it's nothing to do with them. Brooklee is Australian. She didn't need to apply especially to skate for Australia; she's an Australian citizen.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
  14. Mayra

    Mayra Well-Known Member

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    What's to clarify? Han meets government qualifications for citizenship as written by Australian laws.

    Regardless of what you think of Han living in the USA, it is SHE who qualified Australia for an Olympic spot in Sochi. Hard to argue the citizenship eligibility of someone who earned the spot that Kerry would most likely have never earned on her own don't you think?
     
  15. Oz_sk8ting_mum

    Oz_sk8ting_mum New Member

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    And ISA welcomed her with open arms and gladly accepted the extra JGP spots she provided for Aussie ladies with her placings and the Junior Youth Olympic Spot she won for Australia. She has in fact opened a lot of doors by skating for us and in following Cheltzie Lee helped lift the profile of Aussie Ladies further.
     
  16. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

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    Hard to argue the citizen eligibility since she's Australian. Nothing to argue about that. Spikeydurian might not like it, but Brooklee is as Australian as anyone born in Australia.
     
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  17. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Fredric Dambier in 2006?

    If the federation and the Olympic committee have no issue with what Brooklee Han did, I really don't see what argument Kerry has. And this leaves aside the fact that Kerry has nowhere near the results that Han does.
     
  18. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I know she is a duel citizen. And it would be really mad if she was attempting to make the olympic team for The United States. I can empathise, however, with skaters that have grown up in Australia, with the many less training opportunities, who may feel bitterness towards her.

    That being said, I think she earned her spot. I think she is a good skater and happy she is (most likely) skating for Australia.
     
  19. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

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    There are plenty of people with Australian citizenship, who were born in Australia, and would love to be figure skaters but can't afford lessons, don't live near a rink, have parents who don't have time to take them to the rink. Brooklee is just as blessed as Chantelle, who has a family involved in the sport, and enough funds for more than one skater in her family; not many people can say that. If people feel bitter towards Brooklee because one of her parents was born in Australia and one in America, they could also feel bitter that Chantelle's family is wealthy enough to have more than one skater in the family, and a family history in the sport. Any bitterness is misdirected in my view, and a total waste of time and energy that should be devoted to skating, and not politics. Brooklee didn't decide where her parents were born; Chantelle didn't decide who her parents are and how much money they have.

    There can always be something to be bitter about; I'd rather them just skate.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
  20. can'tsk8

    can'tsk8 Member

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    Brendan Kerry now lives and trains full time in USA his results have improved dramatically since the move!! Maybe Chantelle should train with her brother! Brooklee is Australian and has the same dual citizenship as Cheltzie Lee.
     
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  21. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I am not against Brooklee since she earned her spot and I have personally commented on her nice skating and send her good wishes. But I am against using harsh words on Chantelle. Secondly, the impression I get is that some or perhaps maybe only Chantelle is not happy that someone who was not brought up in Australia gets the opportunity to represent Australia. I am not aware how prevalent is this feeling and thinking within the coaches and skater community in the Australian Skating Federation. If they are happy with the current rule, then reaffirm its stand that all Australian citizens irrespective whether they have lived in Australia should be allowed to compete for Australia - period because this drama is likely to happen again in future. There are now so many families with dual citizenship and children who never live in their country of birth.

    Well, I should have know better, figure skating is all :soapbox: Now feel free to crucify Chantelle, I am :scream:
     
  22. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I didn't make myself clear: Ice Skating Australia does not need to clarify federal law. All Australians, regardless of where they were born, should be treated equally. It's not an ISA "current rule" it is federal law. Everyone at ISA could be against it, but it's still federal law, and they can't go against that.

    And Chantelle's case with CAS has nothing to do with citizenship, by the way. There's a difference between eligibility and citizenship. There is no question about Brooklee's citizenship, she's got dual Australian and American citizenship.
     
  23. allezfred

    allezfred Old and Immature Admin Staff Member

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    Indeed. :yikes:

    It was slightly different as it was about who would skate at Euros with the highest placing finishers being named to the Olympic team. And Dambier was initially named, then replaced by Contesti. It was also then that Dambier took the case to arbitration and won.
     
  24. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    I haven't seen anything to indicate that the grounds raised by Kerry in the Nebelhorn complaint are the same as the ones in the Olympic complaint. If any athlete could file the same denied claim over and over again at CAS, disgruntled athletes could clog up the system, unless the review of the current complaint is pro forma.

    This suggests that either the grounds for the complaint are different or that CAS might view the Olympics spot differently than the Nebelhorn qualifying spot, even though ISA coupled them together in the qualifying criteria. Although an opposition party leader has claimed that the President of Lithuania granted citizenship to Isabela Tobias because denying it was unpopular and there is an election coming up, her official reasoning was that until Nebelhorn, T/S hadn't accomplished enough to warrant granting a citizenship exception, and she wouldn't grant it based on potential results. However, she stated that qualifying for the Olympics was a result that warranted the exemption. CAS could make a similar distinction, and in that case, declaring Han eligible for the qualifier is not declaring her eligible for the Olympics.

    There are eligibility rules regarding citizenship, and Han meets them. There are no eligibility rules regarding residency. What is unclear about them? Why should they reaffirm anything?
     
  25. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

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    The Australian Olympic Committee press conference (selection announcement) will be streamed lived here tomorrow.
     
  26. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    This is absolutely disgusting. :mad:

    Brooklee Han is a clearly superior skater and she has won the Olympic spot in the first place. Something Chantelle Kerry probably wouldn't have been able to achieve, based on her past scores. It would be extremely unfair if Han now lost her rightfully earned spot, based on a technicality.

    It makes me very sad because I have always supported Kerry and pointed out various positive qualities about her skating. She might not have the hardest technical content but she always had well choreographed and presented programs that stood out.

    If Kerry won the case, that's what the Australian Federation should do. It's not like Kerry would have any realistic chances of qualifying to the FS anyway.

    The actions of whoever has brought this court case are unsporting and in my opinion immoral. Whether it was Kerry herself, her mama or some particularly twisted 'birther' from the Australian federation, they have done a great job of presenting Kerry in a very bad light. And if it was Team Kerry that was behind this, their self-entitlement is what you should be rolling your eyes at.

    But yes, it's your federation's call.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
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  27. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    As someone involved with the sport here and currently working here with Nationals, I think people need to be very careful about jumping to assumptions or making judgements about this case. I think some of the comments are pretty unfair about Chantelle Kerry as I don't think people have all the facts.
     
  28. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    ITA. They can join Team Galler-Rabinowitz/Mitchell who whined against Tanith Belbin's credentials back in the day. The WHINERS can whine all they want and, in the end, have to face audiences who love the skaters against whom they've whined.

    Be great in Sochi, Brooklee Han!
     
  29. Lanna

    Lanna Well-Known Member

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    Which are?
     
  30. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

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    The fact is that Brooklee won a place in the Olympics. She skated for a place and she got one. The fact is that according to ISA rules, whoever won the spot, would get the spot. Honestly I don't give a shit was Chantelle's reasons are, Brooklee won the spot and should be given it according to ISA rules. The fact is Chantelle didn't earn a spot, she didn't even earn a spot to skate for a spot. She's not fighting to go, she fighting that Brooklee shouldn't go. I don't even like the rule that whoever earns the spot, got it, but that was, and is, the rule, as was pointed out to me in the other thread.

    No one, not even you, knows all the facts, because they're not public and they're not being discussed for good reason. But I know enough to think Chantelle doesn't deserve to go; Brooklee earnt that right. Chantelle's desperate. And desperation looks ugly on anyone.
     
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