Australian dispute over women's Olympic spot to have Court of Arbitration (CAS) hearing

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Dec 3, 2013.

  1. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

    Joined:
    May 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,449
    http://au.sports.yahoo.com/news/article/-/20127098/aust-figure-skating-olympic-berth-appeal/
    Excerpt:
    Was the Hershey Open, a club competition in Pennsylvania, the event Han entered without the approval of the national federation? I mentioned Han's participation in the Hershey Open earlier in the Aussie Skating thread where this topic first surfaced as hearsay: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?84567-Aussie-Skating&p=4038500&viewfull=1#post4038500

    ETA revised wording (bolded by me below) in an updated version of the the article:
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
  2. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    Messages:
    4,926
    Oh no, deja vu for Oz....
     
  3. Kelvster

    Kelvster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2002
    Messages:
    1,623
    I have not seen chantelle skate ... but I just wanna say that Brooklee Han really skated brilliantly at Nelbelhorn trophy. One can even argue that she should have earned the spot in Vancouver last year, without going to Nelbelhorn.

    This reminds me a little bit of the saga between Miriam Manzano and Joanne Carter in 2006 ...
     
  4. kylet3

    kylet3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2002
    Messages:
    3,284
    Sorry to me, but this wreaks of desperation and trying to take the spot away from someone who has rightfully earned it. Brooklee has skated brilliantly for herself this season to qualify the spot for Australia and in winning in Riga. Sorry Chantelle, but you haven't earned it and trying to play politics and take a spot away from a skater who has rightfully earned it.
     
  5. Dr.Siouxs

    Dr.Siouxs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    8,478
    Chantelle :blah:
     
  6. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2004
    Messages:
    12,791
    I think fighting against someone else going is really sour grapes, rather than fighting that you should go. Chantelle hasn't earn it. She lost the CAS Appeal, and Brooklee was allowed to skate for a spot, which she ultimately won. It would be dreadful if CAS rejected that appeal, but not this one; to let Brooklee skate for a spot, but then not let her keep that spot, would be terrible. They let her qualify.

    I hope Brooklee gets the spot, after kicking Chantelle's arse at Nationals. I will never watch Chantelle's skating the same way again; she's not fighting to go, she's fighting for someone else not to go so she can go. She's not arguing that she's done anything to earn the spot because she hasn't.
     
  7. eurodance2001

    eurodance2001 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2007
    Messages:
    736
    Totally does.. When is a decision expected in this? Such an unnecessary distraction for Brooklee.
     
  8. kylet3

    kylet3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2002
    Messages:
    3,284
    I'm really hoping this is ended with a decisive victory by Brooklee over Chantelle, but as some have posted, due to politics, that might not be a sure thing which to me is disappointing. The results should be determined by what happens on the ice, not by internal politics. That being said, I'd hopefully expect a decision on this in the next week or so.
     
  9. eurodance2001

    eurodance2001 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2007
    Messages:
    736
    You would think Skate Australia would've learned from the Manzano/Carter drama.. How is this supposed to positively promote the sport? Also, if Brooklee is confirmed, what typee of team camaraderie can be expected between Brooklee and Brendan?? SMDH..
     
  10. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2004
    Messages:
    12,791
    Ice Skating Australia can't do anything about appeals to CAS though, I don't think. And Brooklee and Chantelle have never got along from the sounds of it; this is Chantelle's second appeal now; it sounds like there's no love lost between them. Chantelle doesn't care about positively promoting the sport; she wants to go to the Olympics far more than she cares about what this is doing for the sport in Australia. And ultimately it's not going to change participation or anything for figure skating, it'll more make Chantelle look bad (and maybe also ISA) than anything else.
     
  11. sammyf

    sammyf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2005
    Messages:
    2,192
    Brooklee earned a spot for the youth Olympic games by placing really well on the JGP and Chantelle got the spot since Brooklee was a year to old. Brooklee already earned Chantelle a spot to one games, I'm hoping she gets to keep the other.
     
    Lanna and (deleted member) like this.
  12. ProgramerUSFS

    ProgramerUSFS New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2010
    Messages:
    154
    This is not good for the sport at all. We talked about this somewhat in the Philippine thread where issues arose and were handled differently. I am curious, not knowing as much about these disputes in the land down under. Could it have been handled differently if the Aust skating union would have been more transparent and laid out the choice criteria in a well written from? The issue with some of the skating members is that things are kept somewhat selective. I know in the US, it is not a measurement that is out in the open for everyone to see, and can be manipulated at Nationals which everyone this year thinks will happen. Do you all think the ISU should lay out the selection process for the olympics therefore taking the control away from the countries?

    They most recently changed the TES scores to perfect who goes. What would happen if the ISU set the rules say based on world standing or total points earned in a season etc.
     
  13. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

    Joined:
    May 24, 2003
    Messages:
    19,600
    Has this ever worked out long-term for any skater or team anywhere when one attempts to use the courts to get a spot and/or tries to block a competitor from getting one?
     
  14. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

    Joined:
    May 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,449
    Unlike the Philippines, Australia has published detailed criteria for selection to both the Olympic qualifying competition (2013 Nebelhorn Trophy) and the Olympics - refer to the links posted here: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?84567-Aussie-Skating&p=4038500&viewfull=1#post4038500

    The ISU?! No way!
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
  15. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

    Joined:
    May 24, 2003
    Messages:
    19,600
    The ISU could insist on a published, transparent process by a deadline for selecting the participants in the Olympic qualifier, if the country needs to qualify, and the Olympic and championship teams for the upcoming season. A published, transparent process doesn't stop a federation from saying, for example, that the selections will be made by the Coaches' Committee after European Championships and doing what it wants anyway, but at least the skaters would know ahead of time.
     
  16. Kelvster

    Kelvster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2002
    Messages:
    1,623
    Not skaters .... but I recall the British rhythmic gymnasts took the Swiss rhythmic gymnasts to Court prior to the London Olympics, and won a spot at the team event.
     
  17. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    Messages:
    4,926
    Didn't Harding threaten a lawsuit to keep her spot?
     
  18. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

    Joined:
    May 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,449
    Sounds good in theory, but having a published, detailed selection process hasn't prevented Australia's current ladies' situation...
     
  19. MacMadame

    MacMadame Internet Beyotch

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2005
    Messages:
    16,084
    I'm curious as to why she'd need permission to skate in this competition. Doesn't USFS have reciprocity agreements with ISA that make permission automatic? They have those kinds of agreements with quite a few ISU NGBs and we see skaters from other countries at local club comps all the time. I didn't realize it could be a problem.

    The selection criteria is not in dispute as far as I can tell. Kerry's argument seems to be that Han isn't an ISA-eligible skater any more.
     
  20. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

    Joined:
    May 24, 2003
    Messages:
    19,600
    I don't doubt that people have received spots by going to court, but in the long run, do people really forget Mrs. Mitchell's involvement in trying to convince her US Representative to block Congress from granting citizenship to Tanith Belbin or Punsalan/Swallow's attempt to block Gorsha Sur's? How many people would even thing about David Mitchell if it weren't for the :mitchell:?

    I believe so, since there were no established grounds for taking her spot at the time.

    Absolutely true: that's not applicable here, nor to the Dambier vs. Contesti issue, which was, IIRC, an attempt to override/change the criteria, which Dambier met and Contesti didn't. The original comment, which I realize now is in the Philippines skating thread, was in praise of the transparency of the Australian process, with the thought that if the Philippines had similar criteria, there wouldn't be the same kind of :drama: there.

    The article doesn't say whether Kerry went to CAS to block Han from competing at Nebelhorn for the same reason, or if this is a new tactic by Kerry.
     
  21. jiejie

    jiejie Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    256
    I'm confused. If the crux of the Kerry argument is that Han isn't ISA-eligible any more--and it does sound like that's the legal argument her camp is trying to make--then why is the focus only on Han's alleged ineligibility for the Olympic spot? Wouldn't it be more legally consistent to proffer that Han is no longer eligible to compete at Australian nationals?

    The entire situation stinks and does seem like a desperation move--Chantelle on paper and when you watch videos of her skating, is so far not up to Han's standard. Since she's not yet an adult, I'm assuming this is the handiwork of Mama and other members of Team Kerry. Mrs. MacDonald, meet Mrs. Mitchell....
     
  22. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,611
  23. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

    Joined:
    May 24, 2003
    Messages:
    19,600
    Since by the criteria Australian Nationals won't be taken into consideration for determining the Olympic spot, and that's what Kerry wants, it won't help her to block Han from Australian Nationals. Unless there was another basis for trying to block Han from Nebelhorn, there's some reason she is pursuing this one competition at a time.

    Is this the international CAS? I don't see anything published under "Recent Decisions" involving ISA or Kerry on the CAS site, but there's a distinction between confidential and non-confidential cases. I'm not sure where they make the distinction: perhaps because Kerry is a minor?
     
  24. ProgramerUSFS

    ProgramerUSFS New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2010
    Messages:
    154
    This is true, and thank you for making us aware of their process and transparency. But lets dream here a bit. We all know that skating and its following want rules and things they understand. Why wouldn't it be in the best interest of skating to level the rules across all countries and lay down the published selection for all counties to follow. Wouldn't this make it fair for every members skaters? Wouldn't this be in the same area of setting policy for who can skate, how old, etc... Why leave this sort of thing, open to the management skills of each country. I think this is the ISU's chance to make it fair for all countries and the rules. Thoughts?
     
  25. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2012
    Messages:
    636
    Brooklee Han was actually one of my favourite ladies skaters from this past years World Championships. She got a great response from the crowd for her short program and everyone around me thought she deserved to score higher. She really lit the ice up, and in doing so won me over as a fan :)

    Now this....this is desperation at its worst and I have a few very choice words which I would love to say to Kerry after hearing this awful scummy news. As others have said, she's trying to take the spot from Han, as opposed for actually qualifying herself. Not to mention, it was Han who won the Olympic spot by competing well at Nebelhorn. If Han loses the spot she earned and it goes to Kerry instead, it will be a low point for me as a skating enthusiast this season.

    Shame on you Chantelle Kerry, shame on you. You are now the worst character in the whole of figure skating in my eyes (well almost as bad as Nikolai at least).
     
  26. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Messages:
    20,751
    Would Chantelle even have a chance to compete in Sochi if Han had not earned a spot? Has Chantelle been to any competitions (Worlds, Nebelhorn or whichever was the qualifying competition) and placed well enough to earn her own spot? If not, and if I was in control of the Australian federation, I would tell Chantelle that we wouldn't send her to Sochi regardless of whether or not Han is allowed to compete. Han is the only one who has earned a spot and we aren't sending someone else in her place. They are surely within their rights to do that, the Australian gymnastics federation didn't send a women's gymnastics team this year because they didn't feel any of them were competitive enough.
     
  27. ProgramerUSFS

    ProgramerUSFS New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2010
    Messages:
    154
    I love you :)
     
  28. jiejie

    jiejie Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    256
    Now that is a very interesting thought. But previous comments on the forum seem to indicate the federation is pro-Kerry. Which leads me to another point of my confusion....As to the CAS, I'm unclear on the mechanisms and processes by which it works and who the parties might be--in this case I presume Party A is Chantelle Kerry but who is Party B? Brooklee Han? The Australian skating federation?
     
  29. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2012
    Messages:
    2,685
    I hope one would careful with harsh words on Chantelle Kerry. :rolleyes: We Aussies will decide what is good and right for ourselves.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  30. stjeaskategym

    stjeaskategym Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2002
    Messages:
    1,281
    How would Chantelle even know that Brooklee entered an event without the Federation's permission? Where is that accusation coming from? Is there some sort of rule in Australia that you can't enter US club competitions? And if that were the case, I'm sure Brooklee would have obeyed the rule.

    Brooklee's skating is really wonderful. I hope everything works out the way it should.