Ashley Wagner finds strength under pressure, consistency (article)

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Nov 21, 2012.

  1. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    For my own personal curiosity. You say this as if I'm trying to bad-mouth Ashley.

    The people who say this are using Ashley as a place-holder until Gracie and the Russians fulfill all of their expectations. It hasn't happened this season so give Ashley her due. She will never be MK or Yuna but that doesn't mean she is not deserving of all awards this far. Ashley is a pretty darn good skater. I guess just not some people's favorite.
     
  2. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Personal curiosity aside, I don't think either Ashley or Mr. Nicks need to spell it all out publicly unless they are going to be giving a show-and-tell at Champs Camp (which is usually not open to fans). ;)

    In no way do I think you are "trying to bad-mouth" Ashley. And I'm just stating how I feel, which doesn't negate your perceptions and feelings.
     
  3. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    Ok. I like to learn about people's technique. That's all.
     
  4. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Well, maybe one day you will have the chance to meet Ashley in person, and ask her yourself. Or, else you could send a question in on her FSO site. :)
     
  5. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Kostner and Asada (and arguably Korpi) are better skaters. If Wagner wins, she will deserve it but it will most likely be due to mistakes by these other girls. There is something sour about winning just because she is the only one who put it all together. She totally has it in her to win on merits against the great skaters too, but she needs to further step it up. I mean, a win is still a win, but even ten years after the fact, I can only accept Sarah Hughes as "OGM only because Kwan fell", and I still feel sour that Lambiel or Takahashi didn't win Vancouver and the top two there were only sub-par skaters.

    I want to see longer strokes and more edge work from Wagner. I want to see her exhibit better flow. I want to see faster spins. I want to see footwork that uses the whole body and more of the blade instead of over focusing on the arms. I want to see genuine excitment and joy. If all these happen, I will be even happier for her win.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2012
  6. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Well-Known Member

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    Kostner and Asada are naturally better skaters but both have shown vulmnerability in competition.

    I agree with what you're saying but I would certainly not add Korpi in there :p. I like her a lot but she isn't at their level of overall skating. Nice triple-triple (toe toe) and triple loop but technical problems with all other triples (sal is meh much like Ashley's but Ashley makes it work a lot better in the event). Korpi has better spins but awful choreo imo and her skating skills aren't the same as Ashley's for me. They have comparable edge quality I'd say.

    Everything subjective aside, Korpi's jump technique holds her back from that level. Korpi will never win a world title, whereas Ashley has the ability to if she's clean and others falter.
     
  7. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Okay, you make some excellent points. However, I don't think you are "entitled" to assume that Ashley is not exhibiting "genuine excitement and joy." If that's your perception, fine. But you're swimming in murky waters without goggles or an airtube. :p
     
  8. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Which is why I said Wagner could only win when they make mistakes.

    Korpi has a lightness in her movement across the ice and a softness in her bodily movements that Wagner doesn't have. She has beautiful arms. I don't think she is as good as Kostner or Asada but I do find her comparable or slightly better than Wagner as a skater. Again, Korpi doesn't win more because of her jumps, not because she isn't a good skater. If both she and Wagner land comparable jumps, Korpi might not lose.
     
  9. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Korpi is a vision of beauty on the ice (even despite her bow legs). Korpi's style of skating is different from Ashley's. I enjoy watching them both. I feel though that Korpi is right now not as consistent on her jumps as Ashley is with her new found mental approach and confidence. :)
     
  10. all_empty

    all_empty Well-Known Member

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    The problem with Kiira is her jump technique is really flawed. Before her win in Russia, I can't remember the last time she landed both a 3Lz and 3F. Her 3F entry, which she keeps changing, is especially scary.

    She is a gorgeous girl and improved many other areas of her skating, but I agree that she lacks the technical consistency to ever win a major title. She has good speed, but I actually find her upper body quite rigid.

    Ashley still has jump issues, but not as severe.
     
  11. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I was leaning towards the technical issues aswell which will hold her back. I cringe watching her flip entry, it used to be much better 6 years ago but that is what happens in skating.

    I find Kiira to have a lightness to her upper body that rivals the best of the best. I don't find her lower body (edges/stroking) to be quite as magnificent. I still would put money on Ashley if they landed the same technical content because Kiira will suffer on jump GOE. This is entirely subjectively my opinion, however.
     
  12. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

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    Funny, I seem to remember another skater whom people said could only win if her competitors made mistakes (cough*Lipinski*cough).

    You never know what's going to happen until it actually happens.
     
    AxelAnnie and (deleted member) like this.
  13. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    I've never been a fan of the "Skater A won just b/c Skater B made mistakes" even though it's true. Ex: would Sarah have won in SLC if Michelle and Irina hadn't made mistakes? No. Would Shizuka have won in Torino if Sasha and Irina hadn't made mistakes? No. Would Kimmie have won worlds in 2006 if Sasha was clean? Definitely not. Sometimes skaters get lucky and all of the cards fall into place. That doesn't necessarily mean they're the better skater or competitor, it just means they were able to get it done when others couldn't.

    The challenge of competing is being able to deliver when the pressure is on. There are a number of skaters who are more talented than the people who end up winning. The reason they don't win is b/c they don't deliver the goods when they need to. A few seasons ago Ashley fit into that mold: she was just as if not more talented than several of the people she finished behind but it was b/c she lacked consistency or made errors when she needed to skate cleanly. Now she's learned to focus and compete. She's delivering her programs cleanly or with very few errors and that is boosting her reputation through the roof, especially seeing as how most skaters can't complete more than 3 or 4 triples in a program.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
  14. luenatic

    luenatic Well-Known Member

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    Boy Howdy. You missed one prime example: Kurt Browning
     
  15. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Well-Known Member

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    Liked this post a lot :)
     
  16. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    True, and if Wagner improved that much like Lipinski did when leading up to the Olympics, then I would be very happy for her success. :)
     
  17. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Me too, thank you kwanatic. If Wagner won when she delivered the goods but nobody else did, then I would be happy for her. But if Wagner won when everyone delivered the goods, then I would be happier - but for this to happen - she needs to improve still.
     
  18. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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  19. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    I'm bumping up this thread with this pre-Nationals article on Ashley Wagner: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130110&content_id=40912102&vkey=ice_news
     
  20. apatinar

    apatinar Active Member

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    I often find Kiira's upper body quite stiff.. Often she has arms that stick straight out like someone who is first learning how to skate. She doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Ashley or any other of the top skaters. It baffles me how she finds her way into the mix. Besides her "beauty" which I find really quite average, I don't really know what else about her that stands out... Ashley's packaging this season has been nothing short of a revelation... She just needs the triple triple to have the absolute complete package..
     
  21. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

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    I seem to remember that only being said about Lipinski when talking about whether she could beat Kwan and even then it was only really at the 1998 Olympics. Looking back, she DID need mistakes from Kwan to win 97 Nationals and 97 Worlds. In 1998 Lipinski was seen as an even match and then when Kwan skated like she did at 98 Nationals everyone was saying that Lipinski could not beat a clean Kwan at the Olympics. It was really only for one competition.
     
  22. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    I find her body movements and movements across the ice a lot more effortless than Wagner's.