Article: Lubov Iliushechkina wants to skate for France, but...

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, May 19, 2012.

  1. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    It's clearly an attempt to silence her.

    They'd give her some mediocre (for Russian standards) partner and one B-International at best and she'd probably never make the National team again.

    Given how inconsistent both Popova/Massot and James/Cipres seem to be, I can imagine her winning French Nationals if she manages to land her jumps.
     
  2. Katarzyna

    Katarzyna Well-Known Member

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    Very sad, but I too think so. :(
    Russian Fed is :EVILLE: and I wait for the day when the :lynch: finally starts! :angryfire
     
  3. BittyBug

    BittyBug Kiteless

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    If the Russian Fed's goal is to win medals (which it quite clearly is), then shorting Iliuscheskina by providing her with a sub-par partner would not further their objectives. She is a very talented ladies pairs skater, so it would behoove them to find her a suitable partner (assuming they have one). And Moskvina is not known for just passing the time idly, so I can't imagine that their goal in sending Lubov to Moskvina is to effectively put her out to pasture.
     
  4. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Sometimes blocking others from being competitive is a strategy.
     
  5. BittyBug

    BittyBug Kiteless

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    I totally get blocking her from going to France, but what would Russia have to gain by trying to hold Iliuscheskina back within Russia (which seemed to be Ziggy's cynical theory)? I don't think the Russian Fed particularly cares which pairs team medals, as long as there are Russians on the podium.
     
  6. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    They look really bad if they don't offer her another partner, but refuse to release her. A partner who is less experience could gain from her experience, and if it worked out better than expected, fine.
     
  7. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    Volosozhar situation was very different. All concerned parties were willing to send her to Russia, with the goal to win a championship. It was clear that Ukraine did not have a good enough partner for her, and they were willing to give her the opportunity in Russia.

    That is very different from a skater (Lubov) leaving due to some issues with either herself and/or with the coach/rink. I am not even sure that Iliushechkina's choice of a new partner that she found on the internet is a good long term solution for her as a pairs skater. She can do what she wants with her life- it may even work out for her, on and/or off the ice- but as far as the RSF goes, they have made the effort to help her. They did invest a lot in her, so it is understandable that they won't just release her. They do have to take care of their skating program.

    It's not clear from what's been published that Lubov seeked help from her fed while she was feeling abused or whatever. She wrote a lot in her diaries but how much effort was made to correct the situation? To me, it just looks like an unfortunate situation that could have been avoided, or addressed much earlier. Hopefully everything will turn out fine for all parties, but it is unreasonable to expect that the Russian fed would just let her go to compete in Sochi for another country.
     
  8. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    *Ahem*

    Apparently, she was considering suicide. Most suicidal/clinically depressed young people -- especially if they aren't full-time students, with access to free counseling-- don't go to institutional authorities (skating federation, employer, whatever) and say, "I'm suicidal. Please help me." If you believe otherwise, you should do some reading about the subject.

    While it is understandable that the Russian Federation doesn't want to lose any return on its investment, publicizing a skater's mental health problems (which I assume is what Piseev is doing, since the alternative explanation, i.e., that he is lying, is too disgusting to consider) is inexcusable. The decision not to release her is the least of it.
     
  9. MacMadame

    MacMadame Internet Beyotch

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    I also think it's disingenuous to refer to her new partner as "someone she found on the internet." It's not like he's some random guy no one has ever heard of. So they connected via email instead of a phone call. That's not so unusual in this day and age.
     
  10. cholla

    cholla Fearless Musher

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    (For once) I don't find Ziggy's theory cynical but very logical. It's much more a matter of not losing something than gaining something else. To me, Pissev saying "we don't want another Anissina" means "we don't want another Russian skater blossoming in a foreign country and becoming a medal contender". He doesn't want to provide his opponents with eventual contenders as he already did once. I've seen countries saying a huge NO to the release of their skaters even when they had never hit the roof result-wise, but "just in case". Keeping them "home" is also a way to silence them when they've had some trouble said fed is not proud of.
     
  11. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    I think the reference to Volosozhar was that Gorshkov was happy for the Russian Federation to take a skater who would win medals, but isn't willing to give (release) a skater who might be competition for his number #2 and #3 (and might help another country in the team competition).
     
  12. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan Well-Known Member

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    I think her country of choice could also be an issue, didn't France block Jerome Blanchard effort to skate with Valeria Vorobieva for Russia. I think he had to sit out two years to get the eligibility to represent for Russia, by that time the partnership had dissolved. I can't see Russians releasing her anytime soon especially if they think she and Kocon could very likely turn out to be a medal treat for France in the future(which I think they are). Russians are also trying to stop them from gaining experience as well as reputation from judges leading up to 2018 games. Remember, Europeans will be without top two K/S, V/T and the Germans S/S from 2015 onwards. Any reasonably good performance in Olympics year will set them up well for 2015-2018 quad, and by not releasing her the team will have a disadvantage even against the other russian teams.
     
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  13. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    All of that is true, Domshabfan.
     
  14. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    Back up a second...wasn't it Pavlova who called her "overweight" in the first place?
     
  15. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    yes, she did.
     
  16. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Yep that choice of words is also very telling.

    And then she ended up looking extremely emaciated and stopped landing her jumps as well as started to have problems with their throw jumps...
     
  17. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    It's interesting. If my boss mistreated me and I could prove it (let's say, I had a log of all different incidents including names of people who witnessed it), I would think it is not only the boss who would be responsible, but also the whole organisation. In Ljubov situation, it appears that Pavlova and Nodari did not treat her well and I would think it is also Russian Federation who should be responsible. So giving her another partner and coach seems to me like swiping it under the carpet. Not good enough. They have to try harder than that!
     
  18. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    I don't think they would give her sub-par partner on purpose, but the bottom line is that there probably isn't that many good male partners available, so she would probably end up on much lower level. (just ask Mukhortova how easy it is to get a decent male partner when you suddenly need one!)

    You were asking what would Russia have to gain by trying to hold Iliuscheskina back within Russia. They would have nothing to gain, but also nothing to loose. They could, for example, mark her and her partner harsher at their Russian competitions (e.g. at the Russian nationals) and that would mean that she would never have a chance to start at any proper international competition. There is such a depth in Russian pairs, that they don't really mind who they send to international competition as the third pair. For example, this year they sent to Europeans their number 1, 3 and 4 (Kavaguti and Smirnov couldn't go because of Smirnov's appendix operation) and their number 4 pair (Stolbova - Klimov) managed to win bronze medal at the Europeans. Imagine that Ljubov and her partner somehow managed to get third at their nationals (or fourth but one of the pair before them couldn't go). It would be within their Federation's power not to send them for any reason. The Federation would have nothing to loose, because the chances are that even the pair who placed after them would do well at Europeans.
     
  19. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that is exactly what I meant. :)
     
  20. quiqie

    quiqie Well-Known Member

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    Nikolai Velikov (together with Liudmila Velikova coached world champions in pairs skating Evgenia Shishkova/Vadim Naumov, Maria Petrova/Alexei Tikhonov): Iliushechkina should be allowed to skate for France

    http://www.rsport.ru/figure_skating/20120521/598172577.html

    Velikov says that he understands that his personal opinion will be out of line:
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2012
  21. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    Wow, that's really decent thing to do. Even though Velikov isn't the one who will make decision, the fact that he spoke up for her is kind of him. :cheer2:
     
  22. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Apparently, but then when she started getting painfully thin, Pavlova said she'd talked to her, but she wouldn't listen.

    :respec: Velikov.
     
  23. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    It was nice of Velikov to speak up for her (and really others who may be in her situation) she really should have the opportunity to skate anywhere while she can.

    I would hate to see a talent like her and Maria M. go to waste.
     
  24. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    Lubov is a very talented skater. Why would the RSF give her a subpar partner AND send her to Moskvina who is one of the best coaches ever? I am sure the RSF wants to win OGMs and not see their skaters go to other countries and win OGMs for them, the way it happened with Anissina.

    They may have been unaware of what was going on (they can only pay attention to so many skaters, and I&M were not exactly a top pair, although they could have been by 2018; they were clearly busy promoting their medal contenders for Sochi). It is possible that nobody knew of the seriousness of the problems and they only found out when it was too late. Lubov had already quit the rink and found another partner.

    I don't blame the RSF for not wanting to release her to another country. Most countries will try to hold on to their talented skaters as long as they can. France did not release Blanchard (IIRC) to Russia immediately, so you can't expect Russia to release Lubov immediately. Their goal is to win medals for Russia, and not just be 'nice'. Politics are very much a part of sports at the hightest level, and that applies to all countries. Russia is not an evil empire.

    Lubov may be happy to be in a different environment, and could have a great career in the future, but it has to be seen. I would not pass judgment on her coach or former partner without knowing what really happened.

    When Elena Berezhnaya had problems, she was lucky to be in Moskvina's group, where she had some form of support, and even then the problems were not resolved before things got much worse for her. These skaters are in challenging, difficult situations and only the strongest survive. May be this experience will make Lubov stronger as a person.
     
  25. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    I don't think anyone suggested that they would give her sub par partner on purpose. It is just not as easy to find a decent male partner within one country. If it was easy, Mukhortova would have a partner from Russia.
     
  26. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Also interesting is Gorshkov mentioning that the letter she sent was written in English positioning her as "the other", unpatriotic, etc.

    I assume the reason she's done that is so that a copy could have been sent to the ISU?
     
  27. AlexDSSF

    AlexDSSF Member

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    It would be so nice if politics and egos didn't amount to one iota in figure skating. In an ideal world, if Lyubov Ilyushechkina felt that her skating (and perhaps personal) needs would be better met in another country, Russia would release her and let her get on with her life and career. But this isn't an ideal world, and politics and egos are as much a part of the sport of figure skating as quadruple-triple combinations, the kiss and cry section, and illegal costume modifications.
     
  28. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    poor Lioubov she obviously love skating as she is willing to skate in anotehr country, they should just release her and I ahve lost all my trust in Pavlova, i was so wrong
     
  29. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    Egos and politics are part of the world we live in. They are not limited to figure skating. We don't live in an ideal world. Without knowing the whole situation, I am not willing to put ALL the blame on the other party (I assume that's Pavlova, based on what's appeared here).

    There are almost always ego conflicts. Eventually I believe Lubov will be able to skate for whatever country she wants, but I can understand why the RSF would be upset when one of their skaters tells them (indirectly) that she absolutely hates their country- the one she grew up in- and she would not even write to them in Russian, and would not consider any offers by them. It's going to take some time for the parties to digest everything and come to a peaceful resolution. Everyone wants an instantaneous solution to complex human issues.
     
  30. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    Out of all of this, I hope that Lubov gets a worthy, tall/strong and handsome partner, no matter what his nationality. Maisuradze is a mess, sorry to say.