Article: Lubov Iliushechkina wants to skate for France, but...

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, May 19, 2012.

  1. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    I think the reference to Volosozhar was that Gorshkov was happy for the Russian Federation to take a skater who would win medals, but isn't willing to give (release) a skater who might be competition for his number #2 and #3 (and might help another country in the team competition).
  2. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan Well-Known Member

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    I think her country of choice could also be an issue, didn't France block Jerome Blanchard effort to skate with Valeria Vorobieva for Russia. I think he had to sit out two years to get the eligibility to represent for Russia, by that time the partnership had dissolved. I can't see Russians releasing her anytime soon especially if they think she and Kocon could very likely turn out to be a medal treat for France in the future(which I think they are). Russians are also trying to stop them from gaining experience as well as reputation from judges leading up to 2018 games. Remember, Europeans will be without top two K/S, V/T and the Germans S/S from 2015 onwards. Any reasonably good performance in Olympics year will set them up well for 2015-2018 quad, and by not releasing her the team will have a disadvantage even against the other russian teams.
    kwanfan1818 and (deleted member) like this.
  3. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    All of that is true, Domshabfan.
  4. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    Back up a second...wasn't it Pavlova who called her "overweight" in the first place?
  5. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    yes, she did.
  6. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Yep that choice of words is also very telling.

    And then she ended up looking extremely emaciated and stopped landing her jumps as well as started to have problems with their throw jumps...
  7. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    It's interesting. If my boss mistreated me and I could prove it (let's say, I had a log of all different incidents including names of people who witnessed it), I would think it is not only the boss who would be responsible, but also the whole organisation. In Ljubov situation, it appears that Pavlova and Nodari did not treat her well and I would think it is also Russian Federation who should be responsible. So giving her another partner and coach seems to me like swiping it under the carpet. Not good enough. They have to try harder than that!
  8. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    I don't think they would give her sub-par partner on purpose, but the bottom line is that there probably isn't that many good male partners available, so she would probably end up on much lower level. (just ask Mukhortova how easy it is to get a decent male partner when you suddenly need one!)

    You were asking what would Russia have to gain by trying to hold Iliuscheskina back within Russia. They would have nothing to gain, but also nothing to loose. They could, for example, mark her and her partner harsher at their Russian competitions (e.g. at the Russian nationals) and that would mean that she would never have a chance to start at any proper international competition. There is such a depth in Russian pairs, that they don't really mind who they send to international competition as the third pair. For example, this year they sent to Europeans their number 1, 3 and 4 (Kavaguti and Smirnov couldn't go because of Smirnov's appendix operation) and their number 4 pair (Stolbova - Klimov) managed to win bronze medal at the Europeans. Imagine that Ljubov and her partner somehow managed to get third at their nationals (or fourth but one of the pair before them couldn't go). It would be within their Federation's power not to send them for any reason. The Federation would have nothing to loose, because the chances are that even the pair who placed after them would do well at Europeans.
  9. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that is exactly what I meant. :)
  10. quiqie

    quiqie Well-Known Member

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    Nikolai Velikov (together with Liudmila Velikova coached world champions in pairs skating Evgenia Shishkova/Vadim Naumov, Maria Petrova/Alexei Tikhonov): Iliushechkina should be allowed to skate for France

    http://www.rsport.ru/figure_skating/20120521/598172577.html

    Velikov says that he understands that his personal opinion will be out of line:
    Last edited: May 21, 2012
  11. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    Wow, that's really decent thing to do. Even though Velikov isn't the one who will make decision, the fact that he spoke up for her is kind of him. :cheer2:
  12. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Apparently, but then when she started getting painfully thin, Pavlova said she'd talked to her, but she wouldn't listen.

    :respec: Velikov.
  13. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    It was nice of Velikov to speak up for her (and really others who may be in her situation) she really should have the opportunity to skate anywhere while she can.

    I would hate to see a talent like her and Maria M. go to waste.
  14. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Lubov is a very talented skater. Why would the RSF give her a subpar partner AND send her to Moskvina who is one of the best coaches ever? I am sure the RSF wants to win OGMs and not see their skaters go to other countries and win OGMs for them, the way it happened with Anissina.

    They may have been unaware of what was going on (they can only pay attention to so many skaters, and I&M were not exactly a top pair, although they could have been by 2018; they were clearly busy promoting their medal contenders for Sochi). It is possible that nobody knew of the seriousness of the problems and they only found out when it was too late. Lubov had already quit the rink and found another partner.

    I don't blame the RSF for not wanting to release her to another country. Most countries will try to hold on to their talented skaters as long as they can. France did not release Blanchard (IIRC) to Russia immediately, so you can't expect Russia to release Lubov immediately. Their goal is to win medals for Russia, and not just be 'nice'. Politics are very much a part of sports at the hightest level, and that applies to all countries. Russia is not an evil empire.

    Lubov may be happy to be in a different environment, and could have a great career in the future, but it has to be seen. I would not pass judgment on her coach or former partner without knowing what really happened.

    When Elena Berezhnaya had problems, she was lucky to be in Moskvina's group, where she had some form of support, and even then the problems were not resolved before things got much worse for her. These skaters are in challenging, difficult situations and only the strongest survive. May be this experience will make Lubov stronger as a person.
  15. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    I don't think anyone suggested that they would give her sub par partner on purpose. It is just not as easy to find a decent male partner within one country. If it was easy, Mukhortova would have a partner from Russia.
  16. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Also interesting is Gorshkov mentioning that the letter she sent was written in English positioning her as "the other", unpatriotic, etc.

    I assume the reason she's done that is so that a copy could have been sent to the ISU?
  17. AlexDSSF

    AlexDSSF Member

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    It would be so nice if politics and egos didn't amount to one iota in figure skating. In an ideal world, if Lyubov Ilyushechkina felt that her skating (and perhaps personal) needs would be better met in another country, Russia would release her and let her get on with her life and career. But this isn't an ideal world, and politics and egos are as much a part of the sport of figure skating as quadruple-triple combinations, the kiss and cry section, and illegal costume modifications.
  18. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    poor Lioubov she obviously love skating as she is willing to skate in anotehr country, they should just release her and I ahve lost all my trust in Pavlova, i was so wrong
  19. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Egos and politics are part of the world we live in. They are not limited to figure skating. We don't live in an ideal world. Without knowing the whole situation, I am not willing to put ALL the blame on the other party (I assume that's Pavlova, based on what's appeared here).

    There are almost always ego conflicts. Eventually I believe Lubov will be able to skate for whatever country she wants, but I can understand why the RSF would be upset when one of their skaters tells them (indirectly) that she absolutely hates their country- the one she grew up in- and she would not even write to them in Russian, and would not consider any offers by them. It's going to take some time for the parties to digest everything and come to a peaceful resolution. Everyone wants an instantaneous solution to complex human issues.
  20. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    Out of all of this, I hope that Lubov gets a worthy, tall/strong and handsome partner, no matter what his nationality. Maisuradze is a mess, sorry to say.
  21. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Apparently Kocon is only 171 cm, which concerns me considering the issues Lubov has had in the past with keeping her weight too low, and that was with Nodari who is 6 cm taller than Kocon. Lubov is 153 cm so really she should have a partner taller than 171...but maybe, if he's built like a house, it could work.
  22. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Again - she probably did so, so that a copy could have gone to the ISU/her laywer/French fed/etc.
  23. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    But it was not a co-incidence that Gorshkov disclosed to the press that she wrote in English, portraying her as an ingrate.
  24. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    18 cm height difference is not that bad. There are pairs who are much nearer with height to each other than them. (Zhangs...) And she is very light.
  25. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Shen and Zhao did not have a huge difference in their heights and they did just fine. I think the height difference may be an overinflated factor in pairs partnerships.
  26. Katarzyna

    Katarzyna Well-Known Member

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    Agree! This information certainly was dispensable. :(

    Another :respect: from my side. However, I’m now curious how their students will place at the next RN. I’m pretty sure openly criticizing their own fed isn’t helpful for success. And it’s not like if they had been Federations darlings in the past. :shuffle:

    I like pairs where the man isn't almost twice as big than the girl. I'm looking forward to seeing them skating and hope they will be able to compete internationally soon. If only more people would speak out their mind like Velikov did, it would be really helpful for them. A lot of negative publicity is probably a thing RFSF likes to avoid on the road to Sochi. :cold:
  27. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    I am sure that if the Russian Federation blackballed him and his skaters, he, at least, could pull up stakes and go train skaters in another country. Like France, for example. :p
  28. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    By the way, Robin Szolkowy is not that high either. How much height difference is between him and Aliona?
  29. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    ISU bio says Robin is 1.75m, Aliona is 1.52.

    Shen and Zhao are listed as 1.60/1.77 respectively.

    Nicole Della Monica is taller than Lubov, so I don't think the height difference should be a huge problem.
  30. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    OMG, I never realised that Aliona is so tiny. Ljubov is taller than Aliona? :eek: Just 1cm, but still...
  31. Andrey aka Pushkin

    Andrey aka Pushkin Brezina's Nemesis

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    No way in hell Robin is 175 :)
    Maybe with his skates on.

    I didn't realize Kokon was so low, though.

    And Maisuradze is not a mess, he's a great pairs skater. I hope he has a great career himself, perhaps in Georgia :)
    They could use a pair.
  32. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    Why should Russia release him to skate for Georgia, but at the same time refusing to release Ljubov?
  33. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Yes I think Robin is more likely around 170-172 cm. And 152-153 cm is pretty standard for a ladies pair's skater, Marley and Takahashi are both only 146 cm and Sui is apparently only 143 cm (though she is probably around Marley and Takahashi's height now as she appears to have grown a bit). Aliona is very tiny, but for pairs, not really.
  34. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    Have I missed something or do you say that because he has a Georgian name?
  35. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    Ok, part of me is like, "yay, Velikov rocks!" But part of me doesn't get why he had to say that she's prone to being overweight. I may have a terrible eye or not a lot of pictures, but she's always looked normal to me, even amongst pairs. And why does he have to talk like that about a girl whose eating habits are known to be troubled, anyway?
  36. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    Georgian last name mostly ends either ili or dze
    so chances Nodari has Georgian roots are very high.

    I think it is also great if he will skate for Georgia like Elene
  37. Andrey aka Pushkin

    Andrey aka Pushkin Brezina's Nemesis

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    He does have Georgian roots, it's not just the name (which is obviously Georgian).
    But unfortunately, there's no rumor of any kind implying that he might switch countries. It would be a shame if he'd get lost in the sea of talented Russian pairs.
  38. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Is there even a rumor of a female Georgian pairs skater with whom he could skate? In any case, the Russian Fed would have to release him, and that would be two years, and he'd no longer have the subsidized training or the political clout of the Russian Fed.
  39. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    I thought Nodari had already found a partner?
  40. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Well, there is Nikol Gosviani who is Georgian but represents Russia and currently skates singles. If she were to switch representation then they could team up and represent Georgia together.