Anyone find this weird?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by skateboy, Dec 5, 2010.

  1. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    I may be the only one, but it bothers me. When skaters finish their routine, then skate around with their hands on their hips for 15 seconds or more, often looking disappointed. Whatever happened to finishing, taking your bows while the audience is actually applauding for you, then getting off the ice and reacting OFF the ice?

    I don't think the older skaters used to do this. Dancers don't do this either (or other performers).
  2. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    It bothers me too :)
  3. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Quite true. Don't know exactly when or why it became a trend. Not everyone does it, but Plushenko certainly did it after his 2006 Olympic sp performance (and probably others as well). I think a lot of emoting became the norm if you skated well (circa BB at 1988 Olympics) I don't blame BB, because that was a transcendant, perfect skate for him, and he had worked hard to become more than just a jumper. Some skaters began kissing the ice after a performance. Who could forget the glare by the Italian pair skater toward her partner at the end of their marred free dance. I can understand emoting after an amazing performance and collecting hugs and flowers from fans at rinkside, but extended skating around and too much visible show of disappointment should be minimized or eliminated.

    In other times, I think skaters whether they skated beautifully or miserably took their bows and exited the ice. They also used to skate onto the ice immediately when their names were called, and start their programs. Today, (a trend definitely started by Oksana Baiul) skaters wait awhile even after their names are called, and then skate around in circles meditating it seems, and practicing jump techique, or flicking ice from their skate blades, before deciding to strike their opening pose. :p
  4. senorita

    senorita New Member

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    i think same case with Boitano happened with Plushenko in the program you mentioned

    and in general, skaters need to catch their breath, take down their heart beats and get out of the zone they were, all and all this lasts like 30 seconds, even disappointment or triumph expressions i dont bother, if you imagine many people cant control their emotions on the board when they watch a competition, and we just sit on a sofa watching and commenting.
    One of the moments i remember in Vancouver was Lysacek's sp and Yuna lp reactions and I think it said a lot about the pressure they felt to skate clean and all, and they let their emotions out before bowing. Probably Abott is the most graphic in reactions :).
  5. HSGP21

    HSGP21 New Member

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    Skating programs are technically more difficult now than they used to be... by the end of a four/four-and-a-half minute program skaters are physically exhausted and need to catch their breath. For better or worse, it is now more of a sport than a performance. How many people do you see doing this during exhibitions?
  6. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    By official IJS rules, a skater has one minute after their name is called to strike the pose.
  7. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    True that, but sometimes it has seemed to take longer than that. Just recently I saw Cynthia Phaneuf taking the ice and it appeared to take her a long time to strike up her pose. I saw her take a quick look "up" - I'm thinking it was to a scoreboard which probably shows how much time is left - and she settled down and assumed her position within a few seconds. I realize the skaters probably take that time to get their nerves under some control, perhaps control their breathing but sometimes it just seems to take a long time. Just my perception, I'm sure.
  8. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it's weird. It's absolutely normal to have emotions at the end of the program. It's a sport, not a show.
    I loved Tara Lipinski's reaction in Nagano, or Michelle's reaction at 2004 US Nats.
    As a spectator, I don't feel offended if a skater doesn't bow before reacting !
  9. Allen

    Allen New Member

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    Not only am I not offended, I really enjoy someone being happy for their accomplishment. One of my pet peeves is someone winning something or doing well and just acting like they can't be bothered to even smile.
  10. ltnskater

    ltnskater New Member

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    It is actually not a bad thing...as someone mentioned before, many skaters take their time to skate around the rink after their 4 minute program to slow down their heart rate which is better than just standing their bowing and getting off the ice (better for them physically - that is why you have a cool-down period to slow your heart rate after an intense cardio conditioning session).

    As for skaters who skate around after their name is called, they have 1 minute...that is within the rules... it is up to them to do whatever they need to get ready whether it is mental preparation, visualization, self-talk for their program. We also have to remember some of these skaters that skate later in the flight have been off a good half an hour 45 minutes since the warmup, and may want some time to get their legs under them after taking their skates off as well.

    So I actually do not have a problem with that, I doubt the audience or the majority of the public does either, and many times, they actually enjoy the emotions that come out immediately after their performance as well.
  11. apollo13

    apollo13 Member

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    Naah! Doesn't bother me one bit. Ice skaters are athletes with very human traits.

    We have seen:

    Football players do creative "dance" routines when scoring a touchdown even at the risk of getting a penalty for "unsportsmanlike conduct". And the cornerback looks on shaking his head for letting the receiver catch the ball. In Green Bay, they do the "Lambeau Leap" after every touchdown.

    Baseball players go on a "trot" around the bases, with fists held high, when hitting a homerun. And if you look at the pitcher's mound, you'd see the pitcher punching his glove in disgust.

    Soccer players rip off their jerseys after a goal. Remember Brandy Chastain at a recent Olympics, stripping down to her sports bra when the US team won.

    And at the last Olympics, Usain Bolt went into celebration mode ten meters before the 100-meter dash finish line.

    Yeah, yeah... Ice skating is a much genteel sport, but it is still a sport - and athletes have very human emotions. NO it does not bother me one bit...
  12. Indra486

    Indra486 Well-Known Member

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    MTE

    Considering how focused and disciplined athletes are, they should be allowed to show moments of joy or disappointment because they're working for optimum results. I also agree with the cool-down/catching a breath statements that are being made.
  13. sigrid

    sigrid New Member

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    I love when skaters react at the end of their programs, it's strange but sometimes I remember more how they ended their programs than the program itself.
  14. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    I think their is a big difference between being happy for a few moments on the ice and skating around discusted at yourself and/or your partner like a child. I understand athletes are human and they are going to react however they feel at the moment. But I do find it unprofessional.

    Other athletes such as football players do react in the end zone but they are also penalized if it's excesive.
  15. senorita

    senorita New Member

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    they are athletes, holding all their emotions, being disciplined while training all season for those 4 minutes, and hold it until they finsih the last note of their programs, that is professional.
    Have you seen anyone jumping around from joy before the beginning of the program? What they do after the end is their moment and their reaction to what is happening in them, it is a bit harsh to even bother for their moment. When I read drama queen stuff like that and comments like this about athletes, I feel like people think they watch the circus and monkeys that eat the banana or jump whenever they are asked. We are watching a sport, and this happens to most sports I ve seen, team sports or not, from swimming, athletics etc, there is no comme il faut in how you react for your sadness or triumph and I havent seen anything excessive or rude to the audience. Even Bonaly's jump.
  16. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

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    I'm not bothered by it. I just assume they're catching their breath/regrouping/whatever.
  17. L'amour

    L'amour New Member

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    I think they are aloud to to whatever they want after finishing a program. Competing must be so mentally stressfull so showing emotions after the program muts be hard to controll.
  18. sk8junkie

    sk8junkie New Member

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    It doesn't bother me at all. If they're not happy with how they did, then it's just a normal reaction for them to be a little disappointed. Personally, I don't think it's psychologically healthy for them to squelch it and put on a happy face for the sake of the audience.

    If they're happy with the way they skated and then react accordingly, that just makes the whole thing better - I once went to a World Chapionship competition, where there was a skater in the qualifying round that looked barely able to make it around the rink. He didn't make the cut, obviously, but he was excited to be there. And while it was hard to watch him attempt his program - along with all the falling - his excited reaction at the end made it about a million times better. You just knew that it was a huge moment in his life and he was happy to savor every second, and I was happy to see him have his moment.

    They're athletes and competitors. They don't need to perform for us every second that the music isn't on.
  19. Indra486

    Indra486 Well-Known Member

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    ITA. It's bad enough that athletes are some times called fakes or posers when they try to be happy. They can seem to win either way because of the idol size they have but the least we spectators can do is cut them some slack at the emotions towards their own performances, good or bad.
  20. TwizzlerS

    TwizzlerS Well-Known Member

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    I enjoy seeing all the different ways skaters get onto the ice. I must say the one that seems the oddest to me is the way Amanda Evora always skates around the edge of the ice looking into the stands and at the judges before she gets into starting position. I'd love to see Mark Ladwig do it with her. That could be intimidating.
  21. amy8

    amy8 Member

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    Doesn't bother me either. I always thought it was programmed to relieve tension.
  22. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    I need to explain what I meant. Yes, I love it too when skaters are overjoyed at the end of a competitive routine (Lipinski, Boitano, etc.). Sure, it's a competitive sport, I understand that and it's great to see skaters (and other athletes) happy with their performance.

    But lots of skaters just skate around with kind of a blank look, while the audience is clapping for them. Then the audience stops clapping. The skaters finally bow afterward, because they "have" to and then the audience claps unenthusiastically, since they're more or less forced to at that point.

    A trained athlete does NOT need to catch his/her breath for thirty seconds after a performance. They train every day, and usually run their programs more than once a day. It's not like they're going to end up in the hospital if they spend fifteen seconds at the end taking bows and acknowledging the audience. I used to compete. Never remember skaters doing this until recent years. Yep, I think it looks bad and brings down the whole energy of the performance.

    Just my opinion!
  23. senorita

    senorita New Member

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    if it is not because they feel or need to, why you think they are doing it?? to just upset you? There is obviously a reason they need to calm down after their program, emotional, physical or both.
    Apart from toning down their heart beat which needs to be done for everyone even if you just go to the gym for an hour and do aerobic exercise, if you see almost all skaters still breath faster in kiss n cry area after such physical exercice, a trained athlete is well shaped to run through his programs without slowing down ορ getting tired much, but it doesnt mean they shouldnt reduce their pulse rate, it is not good to come to a dead stop. Plus I was watching Lillehammer Olys this weekend and many skaters didnt bow right after as well, especially the ones who blew it.
  24. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    So how would that explain skaters like Kwan, Lipinski, Boitano and others who practically started jumping around after finishing their routines? Doesn't exactly slow down the heart rate.

    The heartbeat begins to slow down as soon as the exercise is halted. Skating around the ice doesn't slow it down any more than stopping and taking a few bows slows it down.

    I think skaters do it because they don't know not to. Maybe this started as early as the '94 Olympics (although I don't remember Urmanov, Stojko, Kerrigan, Baiul, Candeloro and others doing it). It seems to me a lot more commonplace these days.

    If it doesn't bother you, that's fine. And I'll still be a skating fan and cheer on all my favorites no matter what they do. But it's not a matter of the skaters needing to do it. Professional dancers perform just as rigorously, maybe even moreso, and you don't see that out of them.
  25. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

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    Besides catching their breath, I think they are also taking a moment to reflect on their performance. Usually we see fist pumps or acts of disappointments. When you say 'blank stare' I think it just means they thought they blew it. I can't think of a strong performance with a skater ending it with a blank stare... Maybe they should do it when they are in the K&C, but they are only humans.

    It's like any sporting event. Soccer players celebrate after scoring a goal, or cover their faces when they miss a penalty... they don't run back to their starting positions immediately (unless it's in a faster paced sport like basketball).
  26. senorita

    senorita New Member

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    i dont explain it. I just dont see the reason of the thread at the end. What if they sneeze before bowing, we make a thread for this too?
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  27. cruisin

    cruisin Well-Known Member

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    I agree with a few others, I don't think the skating around looking blank after a performance is so much about being disappointed, as it is about catching their breath and letting go of the adrenaline. The sustained effort to do a 4 - 4.5 minute program is exhausting, and demands intense focus, they are just recovering a bit before they smile and bow.
  28. Debbie S

    Debbie S Well-Known Member

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    I tend not to spend a lot of time thinking about how long/why skaters skate on the ice before or after their programs - really, of all the things to see and think about when watching a comp, this rates kind of low on the importance scale. The only skater who bothered me with their trips around the ice was Oksana Baiul, who used to circle around for at least a minute - I think her thing was that her skates would tell her when to begin or something like that - and I think she even did it in shows. But I don't really care if a skater takes a few secs at the end of the program - given the scoring reviews and the amount of time it takes to announce scores, it's not like they're slowing down the comp.

    Another thing to consider is that skaters want to take their bows at center ice. Sometimes their program ends near one of the ends, so they need to skate over to the center to bow.
  29. Yazmeen

    Yazmeen Well-Known Member

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    Where Oksana was really annoying was at the end of her programs when she was a skating regularly as a pro - she got into this habit of kneeling on the end clutching her stomach as though she was completely emotionally drained and just couldn't bring herslef to get up. I always viewed it as a blatant attempt to milk attention/emotions (sympathy?) from the audience as it frequently followed a very mediocre performance. It just seemed very manipulative.

    I always felt bad for the skater who had to follow her and cool their blades waiting for her to finally leave the ice. A few of those people must have wanted to thump her on the head but good.
  30. lotte86

    lotte86 New Member

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    Adrenaline. After exercise it takes a little while before the adrenaline levels in your blood drops to a normal level again. Adrenaline gives you extra energie, so when you've done well your body is full of energie and because of that you will see that skaters who've done well can jump around when they strike there ending pose. Mentally is also a huge factor, if you are dissapointed you will surrender to your tiredness, emotionally and physically. When you are happy you will forget that you are tired.

    Example: A speedskater who skates the 10km can be tired (even through up) after there race. This is normal since it asks a lot of your body. But you often see that when everything goes perfect, every stroke is powerful and effective, the skater comes smiling and full of energie through the finish. And when you later talk to them they often say "i wasn't tired at all. I can even skate another 10km". But when you ask the same question to a skater who's done ok (or bad) you will hear a whole different answer.

    Basically everyone can act like that (jumping etc.) after their routine however, emotions often take the upper hand.

    I hope that this makes sense. English isn't my first language so i can't explain as well as i wish.
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  31. ltnskater

    ltnskater New Member

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    In regard to the first comment, clearly you do not understand the mechanics of slowing down heart rate. It is the same principle as after vigorous exercise, you do not simply sit down --> yes this also does slow down heart rate, but the rate in slowing down the heart rate drops much too rapidly, likewise with a skater who simply stops immediately after their program without stroking around.

    You want to try to make sure your heart rate drops at a reasonable rate instead of having it plummet, and to do so, you have a cool down period, this is by the way irrelevant to whether a trained athlete needs to catch their breath or not because in either case, slowing down their heart rate at a reasonable pace is the goal, not simply to have their heart rate down.

    In regards to the blank look, it may look like a blank look on the outside, but you have no idea what is going on inside their head and it is a lot more than they are expressing on their face. In regards to the audience needing to "clap" once again for the skater, this is no longer the skater's problem, it is the audience's problem if you feel like it is a problem at all. Let us remember that the skaters are ultimately not there to please the audience, they are there to place as high (and win) in the competition.

    Lastly, why are we now comparing professional dancers to skaters? Dancers put on a show, a performance that begins and ends when they appear and get off the stage. For skaters, it is first and foremost, a sport, and even when you tie in the "performance" aspect of it, that starts when the music starts, and when the music ends.

    Just as a side note: for the most part, skaters may do whatever they wish after the end of their program within reason, an example of something unacceptable would be Fusar-Poli/Margaglio (or something like that), at the end of their 2006 Olympics OD program when she stood there glaring at him for like 2 minutes. That is when it becomes an issue.
  32. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    I think the keyword is within reason. :)
  33. Doubletoe

    Doubletoe Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Maybe the audiences these days just lack the training of previous audiences, who knew that they were supposed to wait until the skater came back to center ice to take a bow before applauding. ;)
    But in the defense of the original poster, I was actually was advised by one of my coaches that regardless of how poorly you skate, you should look proud and smile at the end, since looking disappointed only advertises your shortcomings and might affect the judges' impression and lower your second mark. I like how Alissa Czisny always does this, and I wouldn't be surprised if it actually does help her PCS a little.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2010
  34. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    :lol: I guess we all could be accused of meandering around all over the ice about this issue/ nonissue as well. I think everyone is making valid, reasonable points based on their own perceptions.

    Skaters' behavior on the ice should always be within reason I suppose, but isn't it fun when something unexpected occurs, such as Surya Bonaly's backflip, a kind of flippant message to the judges: "I don't care, I'm going to do it as my last eligible skater move." And I loved Ryan Bradley's absolutely effervescent backflip at Nationals 2007 when he won the silver medal. I think he asked permission before he went back on the ice to do it, in homage to the audience, and to his own uncontainable joy. :)

    Besides Brian B's Olympic reaction, another unforgettable on-ice after performance reaction is that of Midori Ito at 1989 Worlds -- love it, love it -- pure tears of joy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMREnj_8qhs&feature=related

    I think these moments for skaters (when they know deep inside their hearts how well they have skated and how hard they have worked for the moment they are experiencing) are even better than the moment when they know they've won in the kiss n' cry. Perhaps an exception would be Rudy Galindo who was over the moon after he skated, and in the stratosphere when he realized the judges gave him fair marks that deservedly gave him the win. Even the favorite to win (Todd Eldredge) was happy for Rudy (but Todd is such a gentleman in any case -- he used Rudy's win at Nats as inspiration for his own win at Worlds the same year).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXIj_UGchiE

    ITA, Doubletoe and skateboy re, those who are disappointed should try to mask it as best as possible because expressing too much disappointment may affect the judges' view. I've seen some skaters who make mistakes during a performance react pleased afterward likely because it might help give a better impression to the judges, especially if they overcame some early mistakes and finished strongly.
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2010
  35. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    You know, why doesn't anyone skate to stuff like Midori did in 1989? That music was magical along with her performance. The skaters today just skate to crap that sounds terrible and boring.
  36. sus2850

    sus2850 Member

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    While it doesn't bother me, I also think, like aftreshocks said in part of her post, a too negative reaction about one's own performance in front of the judges is not good. Of course it might not affect the scores immediately but it adds towards an overall impression one gets of a skater. I think that Evan did that part very well, he smiled even when a program was not so good and managed to appear confident. Same with Chan, he smiles his mistakes kind of away (sorry if that doesn't souns to clear)
  37. DreamSkates

    DreamSkates New Member

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    I like to see a truly finished program - last pose, hold a few seconds and then bow to the audience clapping. Then go off ice and cry, cheer, rant, whatever.
  38. Bostonfan

    Bostonfan Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Taking the ice when called and bowing before reacting are treating skating like theater or some sort of non-sport. If we truly want to defend skating as a sport, then we have to acknowledge that the skaters are first and foremost athletes. And that means having pre-comp rituals (such as skating a few rounds to mentally prepare after their name is called - no different than what a runner in a track and field event does for example). And that means allowing them to catch their breath and react to what they did as competitors, not performers.
  39. Artifice

    Artifice Guest

    It doesn't bother me, and actually I like to see it because it's a moment of truth, the skater removes his performance mask and act like how he feels and who he is.
    Also nowadays programs are very demanding, 4 or more minutes to perform difficult moves, extra concentration, pressure... and at the end they have the relief of all this. This is a sport, such things happen under competitive conditions, they risk something during their program, so I don't see any problem to express their feelings afterwards.
    And this moment of truth is also very interesting, skaters react in different ways, sometimes we think that the performance was so so and the skater seems to think the contrary... All this is interesting to understand how things work for the athletes.

    My only concern is when some skaters obviously react in a way that doesn't look natural, or when they do something that seems to be planed in advance, which remove the authentic aspect of the moment. But overall it doesn't happen often.
  40. danceronice

    danceronice Corgi Wrangler

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    Yeah, and if you're going to compare it to dancers, don't compare it to ballet (who are running a marathon, and I promise aren't running into the wings and standing neatly still waiting for their next cue--they're still moving and keeping warm and being ready for their next entrance), compare it to a dancesport event--usually, yeah, we'll try and stop and bow, but we also keep moving, reset on the floor, and generally just try to deal with having expended a LOT of energy in a very short period of time (especially mid-rounds where we have maybe a minute to be ready to go again.) A skater just spent TONS of energy and probably needs time to recover, emotionally and physically.

    And I think some of it's just perception, as I haven't noticed anyone taking "forever" to go take a bow.