Anti-Lysacek revisions to COP = Lysacek doing quads?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by caseyedwards, Aug 20, 2011.

  1. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Messages:
    6,506
    Universal Sports has an article about Lysacek training quads. So glad the anti-Lysacek revisions to the COP making quads worth doing has the anti-quad activist doing quads. Chan can do three a competition so there is a way to go. Kind of sad though how some people are acting like an Olympic Champion doing a quad is newsworthy. That is really kind of sad. What is it the 1980's or something? It's like a video of Jason Brown trying a 3A. So dumb of the judges to give someone quadless the gold medal over PLushenko who did two quad triples. Well if it wasn't for Plushenko and the anti-Lysacek COP revisions to prevent quadless gold medalists this wouldn't be happening.

    http://www.universalsports.com/news-blogs/blogs/blog=gofigure/postid=550378.html
     
  2. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2010
    Messages:
    4,891
    The jump looks amazing. Maybe this tweet of his was coming from his quad practices? I knew he was doing something incredible when I read it! GO EVAN:D He did quads pre-olympic seasons which was sadly inconsistent, right? Wow, this season's mens' field would be jam-packed with quads!
     
  3. Jenny81

    Jenny81 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    262
    It's gonna be really interesting. :cool:
    Which one will be the next Champion, Lysacek or Chan.
     
  4. IceIceBaby

    IceIceBaby Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    356
    It's amazing how it looks like he doesn't even need much speed before the jump.
     
  5. kittyjake5

    kittyjake5 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2006
    Messages:
    1,773
    Good for Evan. He looks well trained and ready to go.

    Whats up with the thread title a little snarky huh. If you are so anti Evan why did you post the video in the first place along with your snide comments.
     
  6. paskatefan

    paskatefan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,908
    ^ I agree with these comments on both accounts.
     
  7. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Messages:
    4,863
    I'm surprised Lysacek has time to train anything what with his busy schedule of petition drives, public protests, poster making, PSAs, grass roots organizing and other anti-quad activism....:slinkaway
     
  8. FigureSpins

    FigureSpins New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    2,062
    Nice video, thanks for posting it. He did that jump with little effort - very nice to see.
    Bravo Evan! Now I'm actually interested in the men's skating this season.
     
  9. mia joy

    mia joy New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,124
    It's funny how guys who used to defend their quadlessness so much, like Lysacek and Chan, decide to train and do quads eventually. Seems that the quad defenders were right after all.
    Anyway, it's good to see them realize the importance of the jump.
     
  10. skatingfan26

    skatingfan26 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2010
    Messages:
    39
    Especially funny is that Chan turned out to be one of the best quad jumpers since Plushenko. It's rare that a skater successfully lands its 1st quad at the beginning of a season and lands 3 quads in one competion at the end of the same season.
     
  11. Jenny81

    Jenny81 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    262
    Yes, it's true. :respec::respec:
     
  12. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2001
    Messages:
    3,817
    I'd like to jump in and just say ...

    Chan didn't say he would never have a quad in his skating. What he did say basically, was that he was getting marks for what he did according to the rules of COP.

    IIRC, I think he did mention that he would add the quad at some time but I don't *think* he put any timeline on when it would take place. And then voila! he goes out and trains hard to get one landed often under his belt in practice, then shows us the result of that hard work - from single to multiple quads in one season.

    mia joy - the only problem I had with the quad defenders is that some of them felt that landing a quad = winning the gold medal. COP isn't just about the jumps but I will say that I'm glad to see that landing a quad gets a higher mark than it used to. I like the jumps but that's not the only thing I want to see in a program. Good and intricate footwork thrills me just as much as a cleanly landed quad or triple axel in combo.
     
    mag, Sasha'sSpins, KatieC and 5 others like this.
  13. Spartacus

    Spartacus Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2010
    Messages:
    206
  14. mgobluegirl

    mgobluegirl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2005
    Messages:
    2,051
    well if all the cool kids are doing it...
     
  15. dots

    dots Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,251
    No they weren't. Lysacek won the Olympics and worlds without one. He was right . The quad was not the defining factor at the Olympics, a complete program was.

    Now he comes back and there is more incentive to do the quad. Hence, he's practicing the quad again.

    Props to Evan, what a beautiful quad he was able to do. :swoon:
     
  16. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    5,342
    The timeline for Chan and the quad, as far as I know it: he was definitely training a 4T in 2009, and tried it at Liberty that summer (he fell). For various reasons, it was never included in his Olympic season programs. At 2010 Worlds, the subject came up in a press conference (post-LP, IIRC) and Chan said he would try it on the GP circuit, but that he would start out only with an attempt in the LP - I believe he referred to the jump as "intimidating" at the time. Clearly, with the quad going well in training and the various rule changes, it became worth his while to try more than one, and since 3A won't ever be his strongest suit, doing two 4Ts in the LP became even more attractive. Basically, I think the outcome was a result of Chan's career trajectory, the rule changes, and strategy related to his own strengths and weaknesses as a skater. The rule changes were probably not the primary consideration, since it seems to have been part of the plan for some time before, but they likely made it more attractive to attempt more than one.

    Re Lysacek, it seems clear that the trend in skating is toward more difficult jumps. Barring major mistakes from several skaters, he's non-competitive with triples only - and he must know it. Since the various rule changes did play a large part in encouraging skaters to try more quads, I feel comfortable in attributing his change of heart to this.

    Yes, yes, I know, poor Evan had a stress fracture in 2009 and it affected his training and the quad. Plushenko had serious knee issues, Joubert was returning from a nasty foot injury in which he severed tendons and a ligament, Takahashi was a little over a year removed from major ACL surgery, and Lambiel had his issues. And yet they all at least attempted quads at the Olympics. If Evan Lysacek really wanted to try a quad, I don't believe the stress fracture would have stopped him. He made a strategic decision then (which paid off by a very narrow margin), and he's making a strategic decision now.

    BTW, nobody should get overexcited about a decent training quad. If he lands a good one in actual competition, then it might be more interesting (I argued the exact same thing re Chan and the quad back in 2009).

    All that having been said, I doubt the rule changes were specifically "anti-Lysacek". The ISU is forever tinkering and trying to find the right balance between the various aspects of skating. I'd say it's still a work in progress.
     
  17. ChelleC

    ChelleC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2002
    Messages:
    4,561

    Exactly, and that's what the quad squad does not seem to understand. Two seconds and four revolutions do not make a complete program.
     
  18. Badams

    Badams Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2002
    Messages:
    5,024
    :rofl:
     
  19. paskatefan

    paskatefan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,908
    Thanks! :respec:
     
  20. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    Messages:
    7,089
    Why so extreme in your statements? Why rehash Vancouver? 'Anti-Lysacek revisions'? And if he is going full bore on Quads now, wouldn't that make you happier? IMO, you seem a little obsessed with him :yikes:
     
  21. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Messages:
    9,767
  22. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    7,139
    Oh. My. God. Will you ever let it rest? :rolleyes:

    Anybody can make a typo, even college graduates. ;)
     
  23. FigureSpins

    FigureSpins New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    2,062
    It is a high point in his training, so it may have been intentional. They don't teach spelling in college anymore - everything has to be typed, so spell check and grammar check eliminates a lot of the errors without the writer learning a darn thing.

    A lot of people confuse "peek" (to look) with "peak" (to reach the top) and "pique" (to inspire interest).

    How's this:

    This thread piqued my interest to peek at Evan's video once more and see if he reaches the peak of his jump apex!
     
  24. misskarne

    misskarne #ForzaJules #KeepFightingMichael

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    Messages:
    6,235
    :lol::lol::lol::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: This has got to be the best post I have ever read in this place.


    If Evan is going to add a quad, well, good luck to him and good on him, I say. It takes balls to add skills at this point in his career. It would have been very easy for him to retire after the Olympics, as so many others have done; but to give him his due, he is going to try and mix it with the new generation.


    ...now can he please also work on the badly-skidded 3A?
     
  25. sassybuford

    sassybuford New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Messages:
    61
    Good grief, casey, you act like Evan never was able to do quads. He did them before successfully in competition. He decided to leave it out of the Olympics because he was injured. In fact, Evan himself even told you all about why he didn't do a quad in the Olympics when you badgered him about it in an online chat and insulted him by calling him a chicken.

    Honestly, I'm surprised you were able to post about this all. I thought for sure your tiny little brain would explode when you watched the video of Evan doing the quad.
     
  26. Ozzisk8tr

    Ozzisk8tr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    Messages:
    3,930
    Sadly, no.
     
  27. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    Don't feed the troll and it will go away.
     
  28. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Messages:
    6,506
    He tried a quad at 2010 US Nationals. It was just too risky. That is why most men had stopped doing quads. Quads had nearly vanished from Short programs. The fact that the 2010 Olympic champion was quadless was a disaster. The three previous Olympic champions did them. The sport had moved backwards in a horrible way and the ISU had to make sure that programs like Lysaceks could not win again over a program lke Plushenkos. They increased values for quads, changed GOE for triples, took out step sequence from the short and made one in a FS a level one only. These new rules are making people work harder. Quads are more necessary. No more all triple programs and treating them like the apex of skating. To have a real complete program a quad is necessary. Like it was for three Olympics. I am sad that the Olympic champion did not even try one quad but it is good the new rules are making him work harder now.
     
  29. attyfan

    attyfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2003
    Messages:
    7,469
    What is the big fuss? Evan has always trained those things that get rewarded under CoP. When quads weren't rewarded, he didn't do them ... when quads were (and are) rewarded, he did them. Also, don't read too much into the current rule change. Quads used to be highly rewarded under the CoP ... then, after 2006, when the skating at Olys was horrible, and, people got angry because a fall on a quad got more points than certain well done triples, they changed ... and quads weren't worth the risk. Right now, when a loud bunch has been screaming because the Oly champ didn't do a quad, the ISU changed the rules (again) so that quads are rewarded (again). Let another mess happen (again) ... and the rewards will be cut (again)
     
  30. sassybuford

    sassybuford New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Messages:
    61
    Making him work harder? That's right, that's the real problem. We all know what a slacker Lysacek is on the ice.

    Yes, I am well aware that Evan attempted a quad at 2010 Nationals. Did it ever occur to you that his injured foot was the reason he wasn't able to land it successfully? Evan made a strategic decision. He, his coach and his choreographer worked to make a program that fully emphasized his strengths. Your idol Plushenko did not do that. To have a "real, complete program," as you put it, there must be more than just that quad jump that you worship. Sure, Plushenko had a quad, but Evan's entire program was better. That is why Evan won. And that is how all figure skating programs are judged: On the entire program, as skated. Not just one element of the whole program.

    I don't know why you get yourself all worked up over one single element of a whole skating package. What I do know is you need to get a grip, move on, get over it and maybe even get some therapy.
     
    alilou, Sparks, skatemomaz and 3 others like this.