Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by quiqie, Nov 3, 2013.
Wait, I said I'm *not* convinced . I wouldn't expect it to match the video, either.
Sorry, I did not notice of that word "not"
No worries. It was just funny .
Who would Anna be trying to manipulate? What would Anna hope gain by saying Adelina is a bad competitor? Would Russian Fed hold marks against Adelina because she is mean and ruthlessly competitive ? Actually if she were that, they might think more highly of Adelina . I don't think winning public favor by dissing Adelina would get Anna anywhere.
It's certainly possible Anna didn't answer like that, or the media twisted her words. But if Anna did say those things, I think she is likely just being candid, there is nothing really here to manipulate to her advantage.
Who to manipulate? Well, anyone, really. Audience so that Adelina has less fans and is not so much supported at internationals events by audience. Other coaches within Russia because they are the one who will be deciding about the second spot. The Russian Federation because they will be also deciding who gets the spot. The judges so that they may unconsciously feel more sympathetic (poor Anna!!!)
What does Anna have to gain? Let me see....there are 2 spots. They are 3 girls who are quite likely to be chosen and she has external chance, if two out of the three fail somehow. Julia is her friend. By discrediting either Adelina or Liza, Anna's chances are naturally increasing. Liza has been widely inconsistent (9th in the SP at her GP event). The opportunity presented herself while skating at the same event with Adelina, she took the chance ... I wouldn't say Anna has nothing to gain!
I work with children. Some are making various allegations, which in some cases are true, and other times complete fabrication. I don't think that we can distinguish who is honest and who manipulate based on one interview, while we don't know the person, we didn't see the actual interview live, we don't speak the same language as she does (or it is not our first language...). There is too many unknown which means that we have no chance to see the whole picture.
Yet one of your first reactions tothe new interview (or, perhaps, "interview") was,
That's hardly a measured reaction.
Whether fabricated, manipulated, subject to interpretation in translation, or word-for-word accurate, this thread shows how polarizing the article is, which for a tabloid, means it did its job.
well, of course it was. Because I hate when public opinion judges someone before we even know the full facts. As I said, innocent until proven guilty. Anna made (sort of) public allegation against Adelina. If you read this thread, you will see how many people suddenly spoke against Adelina, without even being sure whether it is the truth or not. Adelina was even called saboteur! In my opinion this is disgraceful!
"Of course" you would attack the skater rather than question taking her words at face value? That somehow balances things out? It reads more like Pot. Kettle. Black.
I do still think that to make up the whole thing would be a bit much even for a tabloid. They quoted Anna as giving a narrative, a paragraph-long story, not a sentence taken out of context and no interruption by the reporter seems to have been made, judging by the continuity and flow of the story. She did discribe how Adelina prevented her from practicing her jumps by deliberately skating into her trajectory. That constitutes aggressive behavior. I am someone who likes Adelina's skating and as a person who is determined and ambitious. This was surprising to read.
However, I have seen the original Russian article (I have native fluency in Russian) and the translation is done well. I don't see how that could be entirely fabricated or taken out of context. Anna gives a long, detailed answer in the exact context of Adelina being angry at her for winning, vs. her relationship with Carolina and Julia and then goes directly into the incident. These are not disjointed snippets. They don't seem to have been pasted together, this is a coherent story that has continuity and details. It rings true.
I'd be surprised if it was Johnny who made the inaccurate comment about the meaning of Pogorilaya's name, particularly since he's familiar with the Russian language and he didn't do the ladies commentary at Cup of China. Perhaps it was Terry Gannon that mentioned it since he was commentating the ladies event with Tara at Cup of China.
BTW, it was mentioned in another thread that Johnny tweeted he will be doing the ladies and mens commentating at NHK on this Sunday's NBC broadcast.
Logically. You have two skaters. One was publicly attacked and did not have the opportunity to put her side of the story. so yes, I will be supporting the one who was attacked rather than the attacker. It says a lot about you if without knowing the facts you prefer to support the attacker! So maybe rather you-pot - kettle- black?
What a sweet girl is! Nice and wise interview from her. I like her, too. Congratulation! Anna!
If the interview (or "interview") came from a tabloid, and the written transcript doesn't match the video interview, I don't know what Pogorilaya said. If Pogorilaya said exactly what was in the written transcript, then it's from her point of view: she either felt threatened by Sotnikova in practice or she didn't. On whether Sotnikova did or didn't behave badly, I have little opinion; all other accounts of her have been positive, and it seems out-of-character to me, but then there are people who will swear that Miki Ando is the sweetest person on earth, but the woman who sold me my cell phone told me that when she lived in Japan, she was a lower-level member of the Satos' group, and she thought Ando felt her shit didn't smell, but had very nice things to say about other skaters. People have different opinions of the same skaters.
It was a poster here who said "saboteur," and if you had a problem with that, you could have attacked the poster instead of attacking the skater with the equivalent of "I hope your dog gets run over."
Would not the logical reaction be neutral? As you say, there is no way to know where the truth lie. If Anna is telling the truth, then it is not "attack' or "slander". Innocent until proven guilty, yes, but the person who speaks out is not automatically "guilty", either. Anna said numerous good things about Adelina in her previous interviews, and also acknowledged that Adelina is under a lot more pressure than she is. I can easily imagine a scenario when between the interviews she is told by an adult- "Why are you being so nice to you direct competitor?" or the like. Anna is 15, seems quite candid and she mostly compliments her competition.
Whatever the case is, I do not see it as a big deal. It is cutthroat competition among Russian Ladies. The possibilities for rash behavior and misinterpretation are vast. I can't wait to see how both ladies stand to pressure in Paris.
It's a Gladiator's Ring for them every time, isn't it.
Well, did anyone consider Anna a serious threat before CoC? I sure didn't.
I didn't consider her a serious threat and I still don't. She's an outside threat; not a serious one. She can stack some points on her elements but she'd be buried in PCS b/c those aspects of her skating still need a lot of work. Her overall score at COC (178.62) would only be good enough for 4th place at both SA and SC. And that's with her skating at nearly 100%.
Anna is in a good place. I'm sure if she maintains her consistency she'll see a slight boost to her scores but it won't be enough to threaten for gold unless there are some major meltdowns among the top ladies (a la what happen to Carolina at COC). I do think she'll be in contention for silver or bronze at TEB unless Ashley melts down in which case she could be a threat for gold. But against all of the top names (Mao, Ashley, Akiko, Julia, Carolina on a good day) even her best wouldn't be good enough...not yet.
I agree with that. Outside thread, but not at this moment serious threat. Saying that, if the Olympics were next year and she continued to have a very good and consistent results this whole season, she would be a serious threat. Especially if she continued to make as much improvement on her presentation/tidiness as she did from last year to this year. Next year her PCS would be much higher and she would have better (more established) name. A pity that she doesn't that spare year.
She lost one of the jumping passes. 2A which I think cost her at least 4 points. This is a big mistake. I'm worrying about her axel.
Just for notice. Having read the articles, I was glad to see them smiling together at CoR.
Sorry, these photos were shot during TEB not CoR. My short memory.
There were also pictures of them touristing all over Paris together on Adelina's instagram (during TEB). I'm more inclined to think that Anna was definitely misquoted.
I'm confused. Do the two pieces of media say the same thing, or not? Ice Alyssa says not, and is fluent in Russian.
Are those who are saying they are different also fluent in Russian - and in English?
FWIW, even if the translation is accurate, it doesn't give me reason to dislike one skater more and another less.
Aggression, or perceived aggression, isn't that uncommon on the practice rink. And the media loves it and it is harder to say where the facts end and fabrication begins. We saw that in SLC, when Anton S. and Jamie Sale collided on the practice rink. There was just a slight insinuation that it had been intentional, just enough to make the audience even angrier when B&S won the gold.
Well Sot has been annointed as the chosen one for years and she hasn't even won a GP event ever. She actually was lucky enough to be skating in some of the easier fields this season and still didn't win any. No wonder she is upset / frustrated. It's probably more upsetting in China because she was leading quite comfortably after the short and the only other real big name there was Kostner who was shaky. Still, in France she did well enough to qualify for GPF and beat Pog so I am sure that is sufficient to calm her down for now. With the Olympics on the line and 3 age-eligible Russian ladies making GPF I am sure it's going to be another intense competition for them all.
Having said that, from all accounts Sot has been a lovely girl off the ice. On some level, there needs to be a competitive mindset to be a champion. So as long as she isn't dropping pins into their skate boots or using voodoo dolls on them, I wouldn't read too much into it.
I would never underestimate what could be delivered by an ingenue who has the talent and skills and total THRILL of being in the mix for the very first time. Talk about benefitting from having almost nothing to lose. Will be exciting to watch her at GPF and Russian Nationals!
Agree. Least pressure as she has nothing to lose and nothing to prove. Easier to climb to the top and remain on top.
What a striking young lady she is (particularly off-ice)
This is a big challenge for Adelina. The pressure will be on her. Anna will not have much pressure, and she seems to love competing. If Adelina skates nearly clean at GPF and RN, she will definitely make the Russian Olympic team. Anna has the potential to skate nearly clean at both, but if Adelina skates clean, I don't think Anna's PCS will be high enough to beat her.