Anissina to return??

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by alij, Jun 15, 2013.

  1. kosjenka

    kosjenka Well-Known Member

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    There is no point comparing programs from different eras.
    That makes this "comeback" even more bizarre. Anissina&Peizerat were one of the most exciting teams of their era. But their era ended some time ago.
    The end.
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  2. AliasJohnDoe

    AliasJohnDoe Spin Alissa Spin!!!

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    But that would be like replacing quads with triples in singles so they could do more choreography. :p
  3. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    I have no problem with that.
  4. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    Speaking of :skandal here's a recent profile in the New York Times.

    Perhaps he and Marina are already "planning" Sochi?
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  5. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    But I am angry, because this:
    is :eek: :rolleyes:. I can't think of much better music interpretators than V/M among ice dancers today. Certainly not I/K. That's one of the things that I love about V/M the most, and one of the reasons why I am a fan.
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  6. Nours

    Nours Active Member

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    This to me is :eek::rofl: too. Their "flamenco" was only by name. If you want a true flamenco interpretation, watch A/P 2002 OD or P/B 2008 OD. V/M's simply is not at all.
    Also, what did I/K in all three phases of their 2010 WJ title easily trash anything V/M did interpretation-wise. Their CD and FD there particulary were mesmerizing. That's why I put them in my previous post. She has the kind of fire you can't learn, as good as you can be otherwise. V/M always seem faking next to her ; back to V/M 2010 OD. Sadly since then, the russians had veeery poor material (first year as senior was hard on them mentally I'd say then, thanks Morozov once more), it's a shame really because they could be incredible and already world champion material by now - if no technical mistake obviously.
  7. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    I guess that is why I & K look up to both V & M!!!!
    What are you smoking here?
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  8. Twilight1

    Twilight1 Well-Known Member

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    If Torvill and Dean can come back after 10 years of competing to win Olympic bronze... there is always a chance for A&P to medal if they work hard enough and grasp the new system to their benefit. She is a tough cookie so I could see her work ethic working to their favour.

    And as for Nours- Zhulin, Tarasova, Dean all stated how good V&M are. I will take their opinion over yours anyday.
  9. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    That is true, but I feel like Ice Dance has changed a lot more between 2002 and 2014 than it did during 1984 and 1994 (mainly because of IJS).
  10. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    That's an unfortunate comparison because T&D got royally jobbed at the Olympics (IMHO anyway). I'm not sure that anyone would want to put in that sort of effort just to get ripped off at the end of it all.
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  11. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    Has any singles skater or team ever come back 4+ years after retirement and matched or bettered their previous Olympic result? I recall Boitano and Witt both finishing well below their former heights when they came back in 1994.
  12. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    Gordeeva/Grinkov
  13. Twilight1

    Twilight1 Well-Known Member

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    Gordeeva & Grinkov matched by winning both times. ;)

    Ice Dance has advanced but the core factors haven't changed... interpretation, edges, line, unison, complex footwork are all still key components of which A&P excelled. Just because they haven't competed in this new judging system doesn't mean they aren't fully competent to get the intricacies of this new system down.

    I think the most important thing they can do is get their butts on the ice and go through the compulsory dances and work with ice dance experts to maximize their scoring potential for the Short dance and the free. They didn't have to mathmatically go over their programs before but now they have to.

    As for T&D, the subjectivity of ice dance is there. Their programs were very entertaining but I could see an argument for G&P winning and them. If G&P had done their World's performance at the Olympics in 1994 then I would believe in an outcry. But then I am one of very few that thought G&P deserved 1st in the freedance in Lillehammer.
  14. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    I find it pretty much pointless to debate historic ice dance results considering what we now know (always suspected of course) about corrupt judging.

    More recently, FP&M and D&V came back for the 2006 Olys after a 4 year break and the implementation of CoP, and both dropped in the standings from their 2002 results.
  15. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    I specifically remember watching the free dance live in the arena, both in practice and during the competition: After Torvill/Dean skated I thought to myself "Just show me something that can beat that." And then G&P skated, and my thought was "OK, you showed me." They owned the ice that much more.

    The real question for me was why didn't T&D finish second, ahead of Usova/Zhulin, since they were noticeably faster. Analyzing the programs on video after the fact, I could see technical reasons why. And then there was that lift deduction. So I could see it going either way.
  16. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    I didn't mean their 'Flamenco'. But, to me, music interpretation is not just dancing/moving in the style of the given music. There is so much music used in ice dancing and figure skating in general that doesn't go together with a particular genre of dance. So, for me, interpreting the music first of all means expressing and accentuating it's nuances with movements, skating elements, expression (although expression certainly can't be the sole means of interpretation, otherwise it's not a skating program anymore), and so on. In my opinion, Virtue/Moir are very good at that. The choreography that they are given is another thing - choreography is not exactly the same as interpretation. Or, rather, it's the choreographer's interpretation of the music, not the skater's (if the skaters themselves are not also choreographers).

    By the way, I've seen A/P's and P/B's flamencos, love them, and know that they are more "flamenco" than Virtue/Moir's OD. Which doesn't change my opinion about them.
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2013
  17. Twilight1

    Twilight1 Well-Known Member

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    F-P&M tanked at Turino because they fell and fell hard in the original dance. They were in 1st after the Compulsory. Their Freedance was a jambled mess. So sloppy and barely executed. They also had a deduction in the free if I remember correctly.

    D&V were sloppy in their compulsory, fell hard in the original dance and I think they were the only team with a 3 point deduction in that portion of the competition. Their freedance was noticeably better which bumped them up in the rankings.

    They finished in 4th at World's a month and a bit later which is a really good finish as there was an argument that they could have been on the podium their freednace at World's was amazing.

    They tanked because they made mistakes at the Olympics.They never got called out like that under the old system. F-P&M proved that if you delivered you were rewarded aka being first at the Olympics after the compulsory dance. They had they ability to score points but errored and got penalized for it. Fair IMHO.
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2013
  18. Nours

    Nours Active Member

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    I'm not saying they aren't good, even said previously they are the best overall competing, by far - even though I can see why D/W were able to beat them at various competitions, rules and mistakes mainly IMO.
    I'm just saying they aren't good at interpretation compares to dancers from the past, still being one of the best of their era on this particular point. You can watch any of their CDs to convice yourself ; somebody said it's pointless to compare programs from different eras, I agree except for CDs for obvious reasons.
    It only shows how bad almost all the others are, I repeat I took them as an EXEMPLE, nothing personal against them here. Should have done it with Brobova Soloviev or the Shibutanis, people wouldn't have even noticed it. The reason is the rules anyway don't give credit to interpretation anymore, which is sad/mad as shows the empty crowds. Margaglio himself pointed it in a recent interview, if you don't like what I'm saying at least give credit to him. I know it's hard to their fans to critize V/M as all they do is virtually becoming golden here. Perhaps they poo gold too, somebody should ask them :rofl: (yeah, trash me baby). Also saying their flamenco has no flamenco flavour. That's not the same as to say they aren't good.
  19. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    I will say if I/K's interpretation is stronger than V/M's in the 2009/2010 season programs, then I need to watch another sport because I consider I/K's FD that season to be the single worst thing I've ever seen in figure skating.
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  20. N_Halifax

    N_Halifax Active Member

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  21. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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  22. N_Halifax

    N_Halifax Active Member

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    Would love to, bmcg!

    I personally think Zhhulin, Morozov and Averbukh are being somewhat harsh and would love to see them return but I don't want to see it be at the expense of Pechalat and Bourzat - who I really enjoy. They're a talented team who have been putting together some good material for next season. Didier Gailhaguet and the FFSG have been rich in controversy and political head games for years, long before the 2002 Salt Lake City judging scandal and since as well. His notorious treatment of certain skaters who were either not in his or the international judges favour is certainly well rumoured and I sincerely hope that this isn't a publicity stunt. It's only going to make him look even sillier than he already does. Unfortunately, it's going to make Marina (and Gwendal, by association) look just as silly.
  23. chantilly

    chantilly Active Member

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    IMO there is no fair way to compare the A and P flamenco with the V and M one since A and P had much more freedom in what movement they could do. When you have to do twizzles and two specific footwork sequences worth specific edge and hold requirements, to remaining authentic is almost impossible for any style of dance. As far as I saw, V and Ma captured the rhythm, character, expression and a lot of the hand and arm movements of flamenco.

    I doubt they are coming back. Think this is a publicity stunt to be honest. And if they do, I think they will utterly fail. They have less then a year to build programs under the new requirements. And god knows what they have been doing since they retired in terms of dancing etc. If she hasn't even talked to Gwendal, doesn't seem like they are skating together anymore , if at all. Marina should coach or choreograph is she wants another medal at the Olympics. The tea I feel the worst for is P and B. Everyone seems to have given up on them. When really it has been due to injury that they have struggled last season. I know momentum is important. But I wouldn't count them out.
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  24. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    I think P&B's move to Igor caused those who may have given up to take a second look. I also think it's strange that Didier would force them to move to Igor AND beg Marina to come back to save French ice dance. It seems to me Didier put his eggs into P&B's basket by telling them to move and do everything Igor tells them to. Maybe he just wanted Marina's phonebook in Sochi and she misunderstood ;)
  25. kirkbiggestfan

    kirkbiggestfan Well-Known Member

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    I would love Marina and Gwendal to come back the way Katarina Witt came back. They would create masterpieces and we would all enjoy it.
    We need the return of the divas!
    But the politics bs in ice dance makes it just impossible. They would take light out of P/B and take a spot out of the young French ice dance team.
  26. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    I think they'd actually take a spot away from Carron/Jones..
  27. Jeschke

    Jeschke Well-Known Member

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    spot away from carron/jones? their spot is already taken by papadikis/cizeron :cool:

    come on, this would be great.
    we need the divas back on ice; even if it's for our entertainment and not for the result, let her be back in the game; this would be gorgeous!!!
  28. TAHbKA

    TAHbKA Well-Known Member

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    I would REALLY love to read what Piezerat has to say on the matter. Should be interesting...

    In the mean while Anisina talks to rsport (this time, it seems, without Dzhigurda doing all the talking)
    Anissina: I hope winter Olympics will happen for Piezerat and me by Anatoly Samokhvalov

    AS: Marina, you have a temper...
    MA: I do...

    AS: But what motivates you?
    MA: We had an offer from the French Figure skating federation and the French ministry of sports to participate the Sochi Olympics. Should the Olympics take place in any other place I would dismiss it. Probably. But the situation is as it is and we have the will and the means. We do lack time though. I will fly to France next week and will settle the details. It will be clear then.

    AS: You have been out of the sports for 11 years. Why had the French decided to turn to you, and just a couple of months before the Games?
    MA: So what? We participate various shows all the time and there are examples of skaters who came back and did well. Besides, it's not a spontaneous decision, we spoke about it during the Winter. Nikita and I went to France to meet with the president of the federation.

    AS: Have you been practicing for the competitions?
    MA: Not as such

    AS: What is your personal goal, not as a French?
    MA: To participate the Olympics. It's kind of a challenge for me. As for me personally... to express myself and show something new. The contemporary figure skating style...how should I put it... It is no longer interesting. Not in Russia, but in the world. And that new judging system....

    AS: Are you ready for it?
    MA: Should I be? You can tame a bear in a circus to skate to it. You know how the bears are tamed?

    AS: No
    MA: They are shown exactly one thing again and again and they repeat it. It's the same in figure skating now -all about the repetition. People in our sport are not trying to show anything new, unusual or creative. Why the figure skating is not so popular anymore? I have been watching and following the sports all those years. And came to understand that we can come up with new things, like we always did.

    AS: Which competitions do you plan participating?
    MA: I should know better in a week.

    AS: You would have to fight for a spot at the Olympics.
    MA: Yes. But we have an experience and a will - that's the most important. Also, as the Kuberten said - it's about participating, not winning.

    AS: I.e. you, an olympic champion wouldn't mind being in top 5-8-10?
    MA: I don't plan much right now, assuming just our participation would mean a lot. But should we put our minds into it we'll do the best we can.

    AS: Will Zazoe be coaching you in Lyon?
    MA: I'll answer that a bit later.

    AS: Piezerat didn't loose any weight. You were known for your lifts where you lift him
    MA: He didn't become any heavier either. Our lifts used to be new, we aimed for unusual. It's what figure skating is lacking now.

    AS: Creativity?
    MA: Yes. Everyone is burred deep in the rules. There is not much creativity left.

    AS: Will you be skating with Piezerat?
    MA: Who else? I would love to skate with Dzhigurda, but that would be harder.

    AS: Despite things not being decided you do have ideas for the new programmes.
    MA: We'd like to create something that was not done before. Otherwise what's the point. The idea is the most important. I'll go into details later.

    AS: Many of your figure skating acquaintances commented on your come back. Do you understand their reaction?
    MA: I didn't read those. I don't care. Everyone has their opinion, their destiny and their way.

    AS: It is a stressful idea, right?
    MA: Why?! It's a positive thing. We are athletes with the Olympics ahead of us. I hope it will happen for us
  29. Jeschke

    Jeschke Well-Known Member

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    thanks so much tahbka.

    she seems determined.

    what a story that would be :D

    but no words on french fed, if the propsal truly was made by them.
    they have carron/jones and a promising young pair, not to mention which sign is given to p/b by that :D

    but please, let it be true and let her mix up the game!!!:ap1:
  30. IceIceBaby

    IceIceBaby New Member

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    The funny thing is that there isn't any French article about this only Russian. And no one seems to be interested in Gwendal's thoughts, not even Anissina.
  31. TAHbKA

    TAHbKA Well-Known Member

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    Who cares what he thinks, she'll just carry him around the rink. Creatively.
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  32. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    This bit

    makes it sound like the French Federation has contacted both Anissina and Peizerat. Given that the link in the first post in the thread indicated that Anissina had not spoken with Peizerat yet, I surmise that the Federation has gotten a similar response from him as from her, i.e. "Let's talk," and let each skater know that the other was at least somewhat interested.
  33. Eislauffan

    Eislauffan Well-Known Member

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    I believe Gwendal is on vacation right now, so maybe that's why the French press didn't reach him for comments.
    While I still think it is hard to believe that they really will come back (especially given the short time left) stranger things have happened. Maybe they are really just intrigued by the idea to enjoy performing at the Olympic Games, without the pressure of winning a medal (like Katarina Witt in 1994) and presenting a beautiful program?
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  34. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    LOL, just a bit.
  35. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    MA: They are shown exactly one thing again and again and they repeat it. It's the same in figure skating now -all about the repetition. People in our sport are not trying to show anything new, unusual or creative. Why the figure skating is not so popular anymore? I have been watching and following the sports all those years. And came to understand that we can come up with new things, like we always did.

    It's true! She knows everything that's going on! But would she be put into this horrible cop box just to get the points to do well in French nationals?!?
  36. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    OMG THIS IS A THING.

    Olivier!!!! :wuzrobbed
  37. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    :lol:
  38. kirkbiggestfan

    kirkbiggestfan Well-Known Member

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    If they go back to train with Zazoui, Olivier would be one of their coaches. Surreal.
  39. Sasha is DIVINE

    Sasha is DIVINE New Member

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    OMG Marina is so fierce!
  40. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't A&P, um, actually have to qualify first? Oh, wait, I forgot, this is the French federation we're discussing :sekret: :bribe: