Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by japanice, May 30, 2012.
The japanese fans must be proud of having so many great skaters at the moment!
the return of Miki means more pressure for Mao to make the world team. I'm not sure she should be favored by the Japanese Federation and akiko and Kanako have much more momentum going into next season
Who do u think will make the world team next season?
why the hell would akiko and kanako have more momentum then Mao? what have they accomplished that Mao hasn't? what have they won that Mao hasn't?
a Mao that isn't in best condition can still score more then akiko and kanako at there best, and when Mao is at her best the others would be no where near her ability! you are talking about a two time world champion and an olympic medalist who was dominating the sport just a few years ago lol
Actually, since Akiko and Kanako both placed ahead of Mao at the 2012 Worlds, both with flawed performances, you're statement is incorrect. In fact Akiko beat Mao a couple of times last season.
Having momentum vs accomplishments vs natural ability are all totally different things. Even if you're the most naturally talented (which most would agree that Mao is), it's not going to help her if she can't bring it to the ice when it counts.
Having said that, Ando, Akiko, and Kanako would all have to be having very strong showings for Mao to be left off the World Team, but it could happen. Remember, Irina Slutskaya was left off the Russian team in 1999 after medaling at 1998 Worlds because she just couldn't put it together that year, so it's not unheard of.
Asada's PCS was always higher than Suzuki or Murakami even when she had only one clean triple, but she often lost TES to them last season.
That someone has accomplished something doesn't necessarily mean that he/she will do it again. Every athlete passes his/her prime sooner or later. We are talking about the present and future but not the past. Asada was once a supreme jumper when she had a child's body, small and light. Asada now only has decent 3F and 3Lo, is not even consistent with 3T, and can not land clean 3Lz or 3S because she didn't learn the right basics while she still had the child's body.
How came Takahashi and Hanyu are both competing at NHK? I thought that two World medalists couldn't compete in the same Grand Prix event. Have the rules changed?
A possible reason: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3574181&postcount=15
Mao is my favorite of the ladies, but one can't ignore the facts that Mao's results and skating have been going down for 2 season right now
next season Asada has a lot to prove. Akiko is regarded as Japan's #1 right now and Miki is their most recent champion. The way I see it right now, Mao will be fighting with Kanako for the last spot in the team.
Asada needs a more suitable jump layout atm, and much more realistic in her abilities. She can't do the 3 axel anymore and the rest of her jumps seem iffy. Of course, Mao at her best is a different game but the direction of her skating this past season don't suggest she's there.
Who will coach Ando????
It's hard to tell how well Ando will do this season. She still looks out of shape, and her skating looks rather labored. She doesn't seem to have her motivation much either.
Maybe she should move to Brian Orser with Hanyu. But I'm sure her sporting agency will determine if that is acceptable. Sorry, after briefly reading the thread about Hanyu switching coaches to Brian, I couldn't resist bringing it up.
Well, her skating has looked laboured for years, and the judges don't seem to mark her down for it. I'm not putting her down, since she has great jumping talent and I do respect here abilities, but I don't know that we'll ever see the light/effortless style of Kostner or Asada coming from her.
Asada has the highest SB among Japanese ladies. Suzuki was held up at NHK and WTT out of proportion, yet lower than Asada at 4CC (somewhat disadvantaged by the "away" judging). Murakami has lost all of her confidences by 30+ TES at WTT, a complete disgrace. Thay have no chance to medal at Sochi or fake-London. I think the JSF would give Asada the benefit of doubt and ready to promote her in the coming season. They know Asada's only proplem is the persistence on the Axel.
Ando -- is still not sure to show up at competitions.
I think it will be interesting to see Kostner vs. Ando head-to-head twice in the GP. They are such different skaters, both now World champions, if they both skate well, how will the judges place them?
Ando's skating looks even worse with the ugly posture these days, and I'm not sure about her jumping ability now because of her current shape.
Asada's skating may look light but is quite slow actually.
Most skaters' scores were inflated at 4CC with the technical panel overlooking many wrong edge and URs including Asada's flutz and 2A+3T. There's no point to compare scores from different competitions. No score was more out of proportion than Asada's PCS in FS at Worlds.
Asada was dealing with the illness and death of her mother during the last several seasons.
I'm sure this affected her training/skating.
Let's see what happens, now that she can concentrate on this, before "writing her off".
lol the only reason why they could place ahead of asada at worlds was because Mao made a lot of mistakes and was totally not not feeling it, even when Mao did less than half of what she is cabable of at worlds they barelywhere able to pass her. A girl who is rebuilding her technique and just lost her mother. i know that momentum and accomplishment is two different things and in terms of both Mao still has surpasset both. actually the only person that I am 100% sure will make the world team is Mao the rest including ando will have a hard time cause either one of those could be left of.
and you are talking about Mao not bringing it out? lol have we watched the same Mao wait there is only one right! cause the way i see it Mao is coming of a solid season with the exception of worlds where she either placed first or second in every competition she has entered..
Akiko wasn't even at 4CC
Uhhh, you're completely contradicting your original post. I was responding to your original point (see below).
And btw, Akiko beat Mao at World's by more than 16 points. That's a huge margin. And that's also with Akiko making mistakes in both the short and the long program, so Akiko was far from perfect.
Yes, Mao at her best (or even with a couple of mistakes) definitely beats any of the Japanese girls, and no one is arguing that. But she doesn't have that much of a buffer, especially because of her limited jump repertoire, where she gives points away to her Japanese teammates. Demonstrated by the fact that in the 2010-2011 season, she was regularly beaten by Ando, and in the 2011-2012 season, she was regularly beaten by Akiko.
So while I agree that Mao is most likely going to make the World team next year, it's certainly not a given when you have that much depth in your country. Again, ask Irina Slutskaya back in 1999.
Just because Mao is the best Japanese lady if she skates cleanly does NOT mean she's a lock for the World team, especially because her 3a has not been working very well and she hasn't tried a 3-3 in competition for the past 3 seasons now. Not to say that even without a 3a or 3-3 Mao couldn't beat the other Japanese ladies, she still could, but the margin for error would be very small, and there are 3 other very strong ladies in contention, and considering Miki has won 2 World titles and another World medal, like Mao, Akiko is the reigning World bronze medalist, and Kanako has medaled at the GPF and is young and is realistically the only one who will be sticking around post 2014, I don't think special treatment will be given to Mao in regards to making the World team. In other Worlds, unless she wins the GPF or something, if she's 4th at Nationals, I don't think she'll be going to Worlds.
I mean, Mirai Nagasu, anyone? She's the best in the US if she skates clean, even without a 3-3, but she still has only made the World team ONCE, and the ladies field in the US is not nearly as deep of that in Japan. I really believe Mao peaked in 2007 and has been going downhill ever since, not that she isn't still wonderful, she just doesn't jump like she used to...
I really believe Mao peaked in 2007 and has been going downhill ever since, not that she isn't still wonderful, she just doesn't jump like she used to...[/QUOTE]
well i disagree i don't think Mao has peaked and especially not in 2007 cause all the big title she got where in 2008-2010... and you are saying she doesn't jump like she used too, well what did you expect she barely got used to her new technique, a tragedie accours... do you think people are robots where the environment doesn't affect one, ofcause it takes time but i still think it's going the right way she may not be completely stable with the axel but on the other hand she has brought the salcow, lutz, 2a-3t, and is once again practicing the 3f-3lo which i would say is a is an improvement which will pay off.. give her time and i am sure you will see the old asada back faster then you might have expected i for my part really respect her decision and think she took the right one... and the biggest indication to her not peaking yet is that she changed her technique a skater who has peaked would never have the will nor go through the trouble of reworking her jumps! this clearly indicares that she is aiming for more!
you are talking about 16 points difference when one of the skaters botched most jumps thats nothing when you take that into consideration.
well just a reminder just because she didn't do that well at one competition doesn't mean that Mao has a limited jump retoire have you seen her at NHK, 4cc or the practice she did just before worlds where she landed all kinds of jumps including the 3A and the 3f-3l you should take a look at it, and then come back and tell me limited jump repertoire.
Even though Miki has two GP assignments I am still unsure if she will compete. No inside knowledge on my part just a feeling that I have.
Are some people really worrying (expecting) Mao not making the world team? Actually she never had bad performances at Japanese nationals, and consecutively placed first or second in past 8 years. She has never withdrawn due to injury before. It's safe to say that she is lock. If Ando comes back in a serious way, she will be selected too (otherwise, the world team will be same).
The third spot is the problem. The JSF was inclined to Murakami by various reasons. I think one Olympic spot will be given to THE most hopeful young skater for the next four years. It's practically a fight between Murakami and Miyahara. Murakami has been given higher scores and placements than she actually deserves in past years. But the disgrace at WTT shall force them to reconsider her prospects. If Murakami follows the jinx of Japanese ladies, she can experience serious setbacks in the season of becoming 18. I think how Miyahara does in fall could have big influences on Murakami's treatment (and fate) in the next season (and beyond).
Well it's better that Ando returns to competitive skating the season before the Olympics rather than at the last minute. However there are a lot of questions about her current competitive level and training. Will Morozov continue to coach her so close to Sochi when he has started to work with so many Russian skaters? If not then who will be her coach and choreographer? Also, what present level of jumping ability does she have in regards to the 3lutz and combonation jumps? This is interesting indeed, but after the level of skating from last year she has to believe she has a chance.
It's doubtful Miyahara's jumps survive puberty and no way is the JSF even thinking about her that way until after Sochi. I think a lot will depend on how Kanako does this fall on the GP. She's a very consistent SP skater, but she tanked a lot of FS this past season and has a real issue with URs so we'll have to see if that's been improved next season.
Unless Mao bombs next year, I think she and Ando are locks for the 2014 OG spots. I don't see their fed not selecting two 2x world champions for the Olympics. The 3rd spot will be wide open. I expect to see a rejuvenated Ando and a much improved Mao (jumpwise) next year.
well,I didn't follow the news.Who can tell me what happend to Miki?why she need a new coach?
There is no way Kanako has more momentum than Mao going into next season. The girl had a disaster at WTT and hasn't skated one clean LP this whole season.
Kanako hasn't skated a decent long since she turned senior. It's starting to become a huge issue for her. Her SPs are almost always exceptional and rank her in the top three but her consistent bombs in the free skate cause her to finish much lower overall!
I just hope Akiko doesn't get forgotten again. She's like the new Yukari Nakano.
More about Miki Ando. Looks like she's not thrilled about comeback...
Whether or not reworking her technique will gel, or pay off, remains to be seen. Mao is my favourite and I'd love to see her come back, but tend to agree that she's past her peak.
However, other ladies have gone through adversity and come out on top as older skaters, Kostner and Arakawa immediately coming to mind.
But it's impossible to say what the future holds for Mao. She's dedicated and determined, which is in her favour, but there a lot of factors which will play into how well she manages with her reformed technique.
okay, that article sounds not so promising for her return.
she seems to have finally found comfort in show skating and performing.
glad she realized, there is so much more in skating. she always seemed so determined in achieving good results, forgetting her artistry on ice.
seems like she had to sign the papers for grand prix very early, with no time to think about, so let´s see what will happen.
her final statement give sme some hope: fighting for a grand prix final medal, even there´s some fire in her, go on miki
Not always. Last season, at both NHK trophy and Japanese Nationals, Akiko's SP PCS beat Mao's SP PCS. But I agree about FP. Mao's PCS bounced back and beat Akiko's by a pretty wide margin.
JSF is willing to do anything to send their favorites (with big corporate sponsors) to Olympics anyway. It's the same organization that sent Ando instead of Nakano to Turin in 2006 even though Ando terribly underperformed that season, and even had a fracture in her foot. Nagakubo, Suzuki's coach thought she would not make it to the Olympic team when he saw the judge panel at 2009 Nationals. (She did by 0.17 though JSF tried really hard to give the third spot to Nakano this time probably out of guilt.)　The question may not be who to send but how to manipulate the selection process, especially when their favorites are not performing well.
I don't think Sato can fix Asada's jumps. He couldn't fix Nakano's wrapped free leg, and Asada's problems are bigger and more complex than Nakano's. Asada's 3F+3Lo is useless in competition just like Ando's 3Lz+3Lo.
Murakami seriously needs a new coach. Yamada can't be a good coach in this COP era. Puberty uncovered her technical problems last season. She had much better SP performances in the second half of the season just because she gave up her new jumping layout 3F+3T/3Lo/2A and went back to the old one 3T+3T/3F/2A. She's a flutzer, but 3Lo is not her favorite either. Her skating has speed, but so rough and energy consuming that she runs out of gas in FS.
sorry, but mikis 3lz3lo combos were obviously much better over the last few years than maos 3f3lo. mikis were close/quarter to fully rotated, mao most of the time misses more than a quarter/half turn.
despite of that, hope mao can bounce back. i never was her biggest fan, but i like to see some comeback story.
she and miki in perfect form and shape could easily land on podium 2014. if they have the will and strength to go on.
My favourite part of your argument is the part about Mao's maturing body. Lol.
obviously NOT much better
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