American Idol - Season 10 - New Menagerie

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by cailuj365, Sep 22, 2010.

  1. cailuj365

    cailuj365 New Member

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    Oh, so it's confirmed. JLo, Steven Tyler, and Randy are the judges for this season. Also, the chairman for Interscope/Geffen/A&M, who's also a producer for some big names, is going to mentor in an episode. That would be pretty useful, I think.
  2. Kruss

    Kruss Well-Known Member

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    If they really cared about this stuff as they say they do, then they'd be doing the same to Chelsea Handler. But they're not.
  3. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

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    This makes me interested in watching this season. I've been a fair-weather friend to AI for years (after watching every ep and voting up a storm the first several seasons), and missed all but 1-2 eps last season. Hated Kara. I think bringing in superstars from very different genres of music (and "performance", since JLo isn't exactly known for her vocal prowess) is brill.
  4. Allskate

    Allskate Well-Known Member

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    I'll reserve judgment about the new judging panel until after we see them a few times. Tyler only recently was dealing with his addiction and doesn't seem to work well or responsibly with his band, so he could be a train wreck. Maybe that's what they want. Or maybe they just want a rocker to balance the panel. J.Lo was not all memorable as a mentor, but hopefully she'll have something useful to offer beyond "I like your outfit." But, I'm just so glad Kara is gone. She was worse than useless; she was freaking annoying and gave advice that wasn't very good for the show. I hope these judges are open to a more varied range of music and contestants.
  5. WindSpirit

    WindSpirit OmnipresentAdmeanistrator

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    It's time to start another thread.

    (I moved a few posts from the previous one)
  6. Aceon6

    Aceon6 Get off my lawn

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    I think this gives each contestant (other than country) a potential advocate on the panel which is a good thing.
  7. Rob

    Rob Beach Bum

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    I might have to watch this to see Steven Tyler.
  8. cailuj365

    cailuj365 New Member

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    Of course Adam Lambert's fans are against homophobia, but they're fans of Adam Lambert, which means that they don't watch clips of Chelsea Handler when she's talking about George Michael. Maybe George Michael's fans should have contacted GLAAD or made their own protest to Chelsea. I'm sure Adam's fans would support such a protest, so I don't see how it's hypocrisy. Chelsea's jokes were majorly lame and low at the VMAs and she was criticized for it, so maybe she's getting back her own karma as well.



    We'll see if this new judging panel is any good. Maybe they will be, maybe they won't. Hopefully, the contestants will be more lively and strong. I read a fan account from someone who auditioned in Texas and she said that the judges (who were college students) cut hundreds of actually good singers and only selected country girls or kids who looked like Justin Bieber. :wideeyes:
  9. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

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    it's a long known fact that singing talent is nowhere near the top criteria for getting on the show, but AI used college students as judges during the audition rounds? :huh:
  10. PeterG

    PeterG Argle-Bargle-ist

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    Interesting info in this yahoo article...

    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/100922/entertainment/centertainment_us_americanidol

    I hope they pick the best singers/performers instead of trying to appeal to certain demographics or try to avoid picking a new "(fill in a past winner here)" who would compete with a previous winner. I'd love to see a top 10 with the talent of Kelly, Carrie, Jennifer, David, Adam, etc. all going head-to-head with major talent all around. Please don't put any novelty acts into the top 10 to "spice things up".

    Iovine has worked with John Lennon, Bruce Springsteen, Eminem, U2, Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers, 50 Cents, Enrique Iglesias, Simple Minds, Dire Straits, Patti Smith and Stevie Nicks. 'Nuff said.

    We've asked in our AI threads for more current people to work with the contestants and now we got Timbaland!!! :cheer2: :D

    I also like how they will promote all-around entertainers with more focus on performance (through dance) and not just have people stand their and sing. This is about live performances, not listening to a CD.

    :respec:

    My first thought is that I don't like this. Kelly Clarkson and Carrie Underwood could sing ANY genre, and do it brilliantly. If you want to find an all-around entertainer, challenge them to sing anything and everything.

    Seems to me that when Lopez mentored on the show a few years back, people (grudgingly?) admitted that she was pretty good. Now it seems we're back to slamming her. Personally, I'm a big JLo fan (and I think Tyler has one of the best rock voices ever), so I can't wait to see how things go with our new judges. :40beers:
    Cheylana and (deleted member) like this.
  11. Allskate

    Allskate Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure I agree. I think they barely have time to learn the song. They don't have time to perfect dance. But, if were just about having a good stage presence and not having a deer in the headlights look and looking really stiff, then I'm good with that. And I wouldn't want the staging to be all that important of weight in the judging because that's something that's much easier for someone to learn with experience than the actual singing is. The singing is the most important thing IMO. The prize is a recording contract. Plus, personally, I'm fine with seeing someone in concert who doesn't dance. I hope this show doesn't turn into the hunt for the next Britney or Rhianna.

    I LOVE that they're doing away with themes! No more Manilow night! No more country night! They're not looking for an all-around entertainer. The winners end up recording albums and doing concerts in certain genres, not a mix of country/rap/pop/r&b/rock/folk. I so don't care if Carrie can sing more than country pop. I don't care if Ruben can sing country at all. I don't care what most recording artists can sing outside of what they do on their CDs and in concert. Why force people to sing songs and genres they don't like or aren't good at, especially if they're really good at what they do?

    That's good that Tyler wants to bring in rock, but I hope he's appreciative of other genres too. I think Kara and Simon both had limited taste and weren't good at critiquing singers who didn't share their taste.
  12. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

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    I'm all for focusing on the performances and not just a technically proficient vocal - but
    makes me :rolleyes:

    Some people should NOT dance (notably the dead wife guy from a few seasons ago). And I don't want to see singers dance unless they can provide the appropriate vocals, LIVE, with whatever movement they come up with.

    It just makes me think of a local pre-professional signing choir that includes cheesy choreograhy for all, but requires its female members to take jazz dance. Twee x infinity.
  13. Kruss

    Kruss Well-Known Member

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    Why allow the contestants to perfect their own genre when the winners will be forced to sing pop anyway? I mean, I applaud this move even though I like themes to show someone is a versatile singer, but unfortunately the winners aren't given free reign to sing their own genre anyway, with a few exceptions like Underwood.
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2010
  14. LadyGray

    LadyGray New Member

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    Wait... which winners have recorded albums outside of their genre? I haven't watched all of the seasons, but I can't think of any who have been forced into something outside of their comfort zone, etc.
  15. cailuj365

    cailuj365 New Member

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    Yeah, I just talked to the person who auditioned, and she said that the judges for these early rounds were pretty much college kids. The only people that she saw that were let through were guitar-playing guys, country girls, Bieber clones, and random trainwrecks/joke fodder. :rolleyes: She said it also really depended on which table you got to sing for. Some tables let almost no one through while other tables were much more lenient.

    I think the Interscope producer + Timbaland idea is AWESOME. Maybe these kids will actually get to sing current music now, idk. I'm glad that they're doing away with the limited, old theme weeks too. No one does the versatility thing anymore. The big stars specialize and send out hits that are all variations of the same theme.

    Well, if you want a really recent example, take a look at Crystal Bowersox's twitter. Girl is having major issues with Jive and is airing out some dirty laundry before her album is even released. :wideeyes:
  16. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, interesting...

    First, please don't MAKE them dance. Encourage it for the ones who want to do it or are capable but don't force someone to dance. Kelly most certainly does not dance when she goes on tour, sure she jumps around and has a little beat going with her body but she doesn't employ back up dancers or do choreography. It isn't who she is, she is way too good of a vocalist to bother with that crap!

    I am going to miss the genres, I was always excited to see what they would be and who would benefit or suffer from the weeks choice. However, they were so often so horrible that eliminating them is probably a very good idea. I hope they do encourage them to try other things from time to time, however. I don't want to see the country crooner singing the same song week after week. Hopefully they can "make" them do an uptempo here and there as well as a ballad, etc, without completely going outside of their genre and comfort zone.

    I am also glad the guest mentor idea is out. I never liked it because it often lead to extremely strict theme nights. For example, Dolly Parton mentors and what do you know, we have Dolly Parton night. Not just country night, but Dolly Parton! That is WAY too specific. Glad it won't happen any more.
  17. cailuj365

    cailuj365 New Member

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    Lol, the dancing thing is a little suspect. You can have the pop contestants dance, sure, if they're comfortable and have skill, but the rockers? Um...might be a little hard to manage with their guitars.
  18. Fridge_Break

    Fridge_Break Well-Known Member

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    I still haven't been able to bleach my brain enough to get rid of the image of Danny Gokey's "dancing."
  19. PrincessLeppard

    PrincessLeppard Well-Known Member

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  20. Fridge_Break

    Fridge_Break Well-Known Member

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    Oh god, that sounds like a freaking pterodactyl.
  21. pollyanna

    pollyanna Well-Known Member

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  22. Allskate

    Allskate Well-Known Member

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    Oh, my. :wideeyes:

    I knew that she and Jive weren't seeing eye to eye, but wow. Today's tweets:

    "I'm not in the loop apparently. I guess I'm just supposed to sing songs and be a lame obiedient dog. Sorry, not this woman."

    "We love exactly what you do. Now do it differently. We can't have an Indy type artist on a major label. Why the bleep not?"

    I hope she wins at least a few battles.
  23. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

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    Oh, wow! Crystal and Kelly would have a LOT to talk about I think. Get those two together, they can write a song about it all, haha!
  24. Kruss

    Kruss Well-Known Member

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    I personally don't think David Cook put out exactly what he wanted, and wasn't Kelly fighting for her first few albums because she wasn't able to do exactly what she wanted?
  25. cailuj365

    cailuj365 New Member

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    Jive wouldn't drop Crystal before her album is released...right? She must know that Jive can and probably does read her tweets, and they can't be happy with what she's saying. And she is right that you can have an indie sound and be signed to a major label and be successful, e.g. The Decemberists. Jive is probably not the label to do that on though.
  26. Allskate

    Allskate Well-Known Member

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    Oh, definitely. And Kris didn't either. But, they weren't huge departures in style from what they'd like to do.

    Maybe she's hoping that they'll transfer her to a different Sony label. (Isn't Ray LaMontagne on an RCA label? She's a big fan of his.) Or maybe she would just like them to drop her and let her sign with someone else. They're really not the right label for her.
  27. PeterG

    PeterG Argle-Bargle-ist

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    And the Indigo Girls released most of their albums through Epic (currently owned by Sony). Epic had Blondie, Boston and Brandy on their label, who are all pretty mainstream. :D
  28. Sally1214

    Sally1214 New Member

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    As much as I liked Crystal on Idol, I wondered if she'd be currently viable. Apparently, Jive thinks not. Or so it seems, from the info we have available. She's definitely a throwback to the hippie era. But, then, Adam Lambert, is a throwback to the 1980s "glam era" and he seems to be doing just fine. So, who knows? Maybe, Crystal will find her niche. I hope so ... she's talented, to be sure.
  29. PrincessLeppard

    PrincessLeppard Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. It's not like either of them put out a jazz album or something.

    I was not a huge fan of David's album, but it's still a mix of rock songs and ballads, just like Analog Heart.
  30. cailuj365

    cailuj365 New Member

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    Ray LaMontagne is with RCA. I really doubt that Crystal would be transferred there though. They've got enough work to do trying to promote Lee...

    Being "glam" is in right now though, but being a dreadlock-haired hippie isn't. And his singles are pretty current-sounding for pop, but I don't think Crystal's would be if she gets her way. I think Jive is too focused on the pop and urban formats to realize that there are other areas for artists to become successful.
  31. Allskate

    Allskate Well-Known Member

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    It all depends where you live and what radio station you listen to. Michael Franti is a dreadlock-haired hippie, and he's doing fine. There definitely are stations that play contemporary folk-influenced music amidst contemporary rock. And their music sells. Ray LaMontagne, Mumford & Sons, the Avett Brothers, Jason Mraz, etc. Crystal could fit in there, along with bands like Death Cab for Cutie and the likes of Franti if she had the right arrangements. If she's refusing to change the arrangements to include anything besides guitar and bass, then that might be a problem. But, my sense is that she just doesn't want to do the kind of pop that Jive usually puts out. She probably looks at what they did with Archie and Jordin and cries. :(
  32. Kruss

    Kruss Well-Known Member

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    At the risk of getting pummeled for asking this, is Adam's album really glam-rock? Honest question, since all I've heard are a few pop songs that made it to radio.
  33. cailuj365

    cailuj365 New Member

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    I know, but Jive doesn't have a clue what to do with those types of artists. They're a pop and rhythmic/urban label who go for the pop and urban formats, and none of those artists that you listed are pop or urban. Complete mismatch here of artist and label.

    That's not a question that deserves pummeling. :lol: Adam's album isn't "glam rock" at all. It's just contemporary pop and pop-rock with some 80s leanings on certain songs. I mean, he can try and say that a song has a certain "glam rock shuffle" or whatever, but no one actually believes that, lol. However, I'm not even sure that the original glam rock era in the 1970s has a definitive sound as it does a look, sentiment, and style. It's that same sentiment and style (liberation! bisexuality! androgyny! glitter!) that's being popularized again by the big pop stars right now, and people just categorize Adam as a "glam rock" or "glam pop" artist because he celebrates all of those things. It really has nothing to do with what the music actually sounds like. With Crystal though, she probably really cares that the sound of her music isn't just some poppy song because that's what gets played or results in big single sales, so it's not just a look or feeling for her.
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2010
  34. Allskate

    Allskate Well-Known Member

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    Oh, ITA with that. We've been saying that for months. Just like Jive was not the right fit for Allison. It's even more true for Crystal. Oh well, if nothing else, she'll make an album she doesn't love, Jive will drop her, and she'll find a label she likes.

    ITA. If you haven't listened to her song Grey Haired Rock Star yet, take a listen to the lyrics:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsssRxE5icM

    I think she went on Idol because she could not support her son or afford insulin. But, I don't think she care about being rich and mega-famous. She'd be perfectly content with a career that just allowed her not to worry about supporting herself and her son.

    I think Adam has gone glam pop. :D
  35. cailuj365

    cailuj365 New Member

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    Yeah, I agree that it was really about her son. Supposedly, Crystal didn't even know anything about how Idol worked, so she was probably out of the loop by what type of recording careers that Idol alums usually get. Thanks for that link. I liked the song a lot, and I've forgotten how lovely her voice is.

    I see Adam as glam pop too. Plus, he said that his next album will be even more the Max Martin route than the classic rock stuff that you can at least glean from "Music Again" or "Aftermath." He sounds perfectly happy about it too, heh. Though he does love the glam rock period, it's easy to forget that Adam was doing the dance pop thing and having backup dancers/choreographed shows before Idol, so it is a genre that he genuinely likes. Listening to Crystal's pre-Idol song made me think of Adam's pre-Idol "Pop Goes the Camera" and how much their lyrics contrast. The lyrics are actually eerily prophetic of his career and sound like they come have come straight from Gaga's "The Fame":

    Hollywood's where I will thrive...Fascination, saturation, stars are just like us. Validation, exploitation, all cause a big fuss...Look at me, look at me in a magazine...Cross-promotion, cross the ocean, I'll make bank off their devotion...I'll cause commotions, get them feeling strong emotions...

    Gee, I wonder who that sounds like... Then again, he does reel back the wonders of fame with "If I Had You," so he's not that self-centered, haha.
  36. Kruss

    Kruss Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, I was wondering because I didn't think I heard glam rock in anything he was doing either. Glam pop seems to make much more sense.
  37. Allskate

    Allskate Well-Known Member

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    So, I guess Crystal is having second thoughts about whether she should have tweeted, but I think she got the response she wanted from fans. Here's her latest tweet:

    "Despite my gratitude and disgruntledness, I apologize 4a lack of prfessionlism ytrdy. Big girls d't cry, right? They thrw kicks and pnches."

    Maybe the kicking and punching got her somewhere because she recorded "Farmer's Daughter" today:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKaTlmrMyQk

    And speaking of punching and kicking, her mother must be thrilled. Or not.

    We'll see if it makes the album. I wonder if they'd make her take out the f-bomb.
  38. cailuj365

    cailuj365 New Member

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    I don't get the part about her mother. What do you mean?
  39. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

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    What a back handed apology, I love it! I wasn't being professional, I should have punched you instead of whining! LMAO! I love Crystal.

    P.S. Thanks for the link to Farmer's Daughter. I had not heard it before and have now listened to it 3 times. I love this type of music from her. I wish they could come to some compromise where she records 2-4 songs they want (that still fit in line with her style to some degree) and allow the rest of her album to be this type of music. It is what she does best and her fans will eat it up. You only need 2-3 singles anyway, so don't force tons of pop on the album.
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2010
  40. Allskate

    Allskate Well-Known Member

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    "Farmer's Daughter" essentially is a song about her mother abusing her and her brother.

    She did also tweet that she knew she was lucky and that a lot artists don't have as much input as she does, but she's just frustrated with the politics and not just from Jive. I think she was having a particularly bad day because her album was put up for pre-sale somewhere with a fall release date, which came as news to her.

    I agree. Plus, as I've said before, some of her songs could actually be made more commercial just by changing the arrangement a little bit. Almost everything she did before was just guitar or guitar and bass.