Amanda Knox's conviction reinstated by appeals court in Italy

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by Vash01, Jan 30, 2014.

  1. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    This sounds like such a nightmare!

    The Italian appeals court vacated the Not Guilty verdict against Amanda and her ex-boyfirend Rafael and reinstated the Guilty verdict.

    Now her attorney is appealing and taking it to the supreme court. Amanda is in Seattle, and she did not go to Italy for the retrial but Rafael is very much there and facing it all.

    http://www.azcentral.com/news/free/20140130amanda-knoxs-murder-conviction-upheld-appeal.html

    Such a sad story! We don't know what Amada did or did not do, but she was declared not guilty after spending 4 years in an Italian prison. In the USA she could not have been charged again after being released with a Not Guilty verdict- am I correct?
     
  2. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

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    Correct, and sources say the US could refuse extradition on this basis. I'm not sure I support holding US citizens to US legal standards when they are in other countries, but I do think the Italian courts have been essentially a clown car on this case.
     
  3. duane

    duane New Member

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    At least Amanda is here in the states. I think no way will she be extradited.

    I feel so badly for Rafael!
     
  4. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

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    I feel horribly for them both. Thank goodness she is here but she will never be able to leave the country for fear of other countries extraditing her. I suppose there are far worse countries to be stuck in.
     
  5. Oreo

    Oreo Active Member

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    That's a perfect description of this fiasco. Same thing when the Italian courts sentenced six scientists to six years in prison (and a $10 million fine) for not predicting the earthquake that struck L'Aquila in 2009. But then again, it took nearly 400 years for the Pope to express regret on the way Galileo's case was handled.
     
  6. AxelAnnie

    AxelAnnie Well-Known Member

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    Really a small price to pay for her safety.....

    What a mess all of this is. I can't imagine, though, that the Italian courts in reversing a not guilty verdict would have much sway to extradite her.
     
  7. Lacey

    Lacey Well-Known Member

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    I hope they are appealing as was stated above, didn't know it had already been started, but surely The Supreme Court of Italy might have a more sane verdict, I believe there is no DNA evidence.
     
  8. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    And the Pope who did express regret wasn't Italian. :shuffle:
     
  9. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    Is there a limit to the number of trials that could be held under Italian law? How long could this go on?
     
  10. PeterG

    PeterG Hanyuflated

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    Depends on how big the gas tank of the clown car is.
     
  11. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    Thanks, makes total sense. :D
     
  12. michiruwater

    michiruwater Well-Known Member

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    I feel terrible for Amanda. All the evidence is completely circumstantial. I do not understand, for a moment, how a court could actually convict her. I do believe that she made some bad choices, but I think she already served time for those. I don't think she had a hand in murdering Kercher at all.
     
  13. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    I think Rafael was kind of nuts to stay in Italy while this was a possibility.

    I don't know where he could have safely gone, but ... I would not want to be him right now. Obviously I don't think they committed the crimes they are accused of.
     
  14. FiveRinger

    FiveRinger Well-Known Member

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    I didn't follow the case all that well....is Rafael Italian?
     
  15. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    I don't know if this actually happened but there could be a couple of possible scenarios - 1) he did not have a passport, although it's so easy to travel in Europe that it's hard to imagine he did not have one, 2)After his first conviction, may be they took away his passport so he won't try to run to another country- I don't know what Italian laws are for a convict, 3)even if he had the passport with him, it would have been difficult for him to get through airports to escape to another country, once he was charged with murder (and after his conviction).

    I feel even more sorry for Rafael than for Amanda. At least she is in a safe place- in her home country, free, and with her family. I doubt that the US govt will extradite her, particularly after seeing the whole circus. There is no way she can get a fair trial in Italy.
     
  16. SHARPIE

    SHARPIE Hapless Board Owner Staff Member

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    LOL at all the 'Poor Amanda!' handwringing! :lol:. Oh well, she can make plenty of money appearing on Oprah now.


    I'd rather save my sympathies for the Kercher family thanks!
     
  17. allezfred

    allezfred Old and Immature Admin Staff Member

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    Circumstantial evidence can bring about a conviction if there is enough of it and it all points to the person being guilty.

    Amanda Knox deserved her time in prison for her perjury and falsely accusing someone else of committing the murder. Anybody who does something like that deserves what they get.
     
  18. *Jen*

    *Jen* Well-Known Member

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    Yes. But why should he, or would he flee the country? it would have made him look guilty. I really don't think anyone should be fleeing their country to get out of a murder trial. What kind of freedom is living on the run?

    Yep! People are in prison all around the world for things they didn't do...and the US isn't an exception. How many men have been executed and then proven innocent? Amanda did make some bad decisions and I don't think the evidence is there that she OR Rafael did it, but she's made a fortune while the Kercher family couldn't even all afford plane fares to go to the trial. In all this legal and media circus, let's not forget a murder did happen and an innocent girl died.

    I agree with the latter sentence. As to the circumstantial evidence...we could only speculate about the verdict that would have been reached in another legal system, but it's pretty sketchy. The fact the court of appeal threw it out last time because the evidence didn't stack up spoke volumes, and this new trial has changed the alleged motive to one that hadn't been completely shattered by the court of appeal. The only issue is...there's still no DNA evidence and the motive is sketchy at best. I doubt they did it, but they're the only ones who really know.

    I'm astounded that more weight hasn't been given to the fact that Rudy Guede had his sentence reduced for implicating Amanda and Rafael. But really? He implicated them in the same way she tried to implicate another - to pass off guilt and get out of a heftier sentence. The forensic evidence suggests he did it alone and then lied to save himself.
     
  19. Tesla

    Tesla Whippet Good

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    I don't feel sorry for her. :shuffle:
     
  20. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

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    And if Amanda is innocent, which many think she is (myself included), then none of that is her fault. People seem to think that Amanda should spend the rest of her life locked up in a room feeling horrible for the Kercher family. Amanda has made some bad decisions and has never been one to come across as very remorseful but if I were wrongly convicted and went through this entire mess, I might have a hard time being too remorseful for anyone else as well. It is horrible that the Kercher died but it is also horrible that a young girl has had her life ruined. As for the $$$, why shouldn't she make money while she can? Her family spent millions defending her and getting her out of that country and going to visit when she was in prison. She is trying her best to recoup that. She knows more trials are to come and those aren't going to be free. She needs to make all the money she can.
     
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  21. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    The murder was committed in Italy though. ;)

    I really can't understand why people think she is innocent. Yes, only circumstantial evidence but enough of it exists and she didn't exactly help her case with perjury.

    As far as I understand it, until the Supreme Court issues its ruling, since it's the highest court of appeal.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2014
  22. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    Didn't the "perjury" occur after hours of interrogation?

    In the US, perjury is when you lie under oath, so in an affidavit or a deposition or when testifying in a trial.
     
  23. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Executed and proven innocent? Not that many, actually, unless you go further back in history. But the Innocence Project does have a long list of people who were exonerated after being falsely convicted, some of whom died in prison or not too long after being released, and I'm sure that's just the tip of the iceberg.

    I don't know enough about this case to say anything about Knox's guilt or innocence, but I am inclined to be sympathetic first of all to Meredith Kercher's family. Still, if Knox is indeed innocent, it doesn't matter if she's a nice person or not - spending years in jail for something you didn't do sucks.
     
  24. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Also: Arizona's home page? Seriously, Vash? :p

    The BBC article sums up the whole story quite well and in quite an objective manner as well:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25941999

    Again, the murder and the trial happened in Italy and not the US. :p

    You can feel free to replace 'perjury' with 'lying to the police' and 'changing her story' if you want, though. ;) My point is that it didn't help her case and it didn't exactly make her look innocent.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2014
  25. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    1 is too many, IMO. There have been at least 3 cases I can recall in recent time where an innocent person was executed.


    But the number of people who have been exonerated before they were executed is enough evidence to me that we shouldn't be executing. Those people were only NOT executed because of tireless work by others; how many people does that not happen for?


    If Knox is innocence, I absolutely feel horrible for her. Feeling badly that someone's life has been ruined doesn't mean you don't also feel horribly for the girl who lost her life and her family who has had to deal with it. If Knox was not involved she should not be made to suffer just because Meredith's family needs closure. She has already served her time for lying.
     
  26. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    In law school, I did a lot of work on innocent defendants and the whole "phenomenon" of how innocent people get convicted in the US. Many of them confessed after being subjected to duress, or were implicated by others who had been subjected to duress, or were implicated by solid witnesses who really believed they were the one that did it, when in fact they weren't.

    So based on what I learned, I am not inclined to think someone who lies to the police during an intense interrogation or after an intense experience to be a person of bad character. It is nothing like a lie in the course of a normal day. Sometimes it's not even affirmative statements but repeating what the interrogator stated in hopes that would bring the process to an end. After what I've learned, I can't even view it as an indication of guilt. It's all very messy.
     
  27. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    As far as I understand it, the way it has played out:

    The initial conviction had to be vacated after the DNA evidence was proven to be unreliable. So the case went to the Court of Cassation, which has decided to send it back to trial. The trial ended with a guilty verdict. Knox and Solecito are lodging an appeal and the case is going to go to the Italian Supreme Court, which is the highest instance, and its verdict will be final.
     
  28. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Who are you referring to? I know there were doubts about Troy Davis's guilt, but nothing conclusive. Cameron Todd Willingham was most likely innocent, though, since he was convicted of murder by arson and evidence points to there being no arson. Anyway, I agree, one is still too many, and you read about cases like that of Anthony Graves (also here) and it's clear that some people were convicted and sentenced to death on the flimsiest of evidence. But even if there weren't so many exonerations, I'd still be opposed to the death penalty.
     
  29. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Some people have enough of a sense of sympathy that they can feel it for more than one family. :shuffle:
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
  30. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I had to go search and see if I could figure out the names of the people since I was only remembering their cases: Carlos DeLuna, Cameron Todd Willingham, and Johnny Garrett were the ones I was thinking of.