Alissa Czisny--Any Updates?

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Ageless, May 2, 2013.

  1. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2002
    Messages:
    10,583
    Susan - look at the ladies' protocols from worlds. Kim, Asada and Kostner all show 2 change foot combination spins, 1 with flying entrance and 1 without.

    There is no limitation on what the flying spin can be. The only requirement is that 1 of the 3 spins has a flying entrance.
  2. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,862
    As much as Alissa wants to make it to Sochi, I can't help wondering if her delicate hip is up to the challenge. She can't push too hard to return without stressing that hip, but she is up against a rigid time schedule.

    I believe that Alissa would have to compete at Regionals and Sectionals in order to vie for an Olympic berth at Nationals. USFS could send Alissa to Skate America (avoiding Regionals) and a November International B (avoiding Sectionals). But it's not clear that Alissa will be ready for competition by mid-October, and two competitions within two months might be too much for her.
  3. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

    Joined:
    May 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,045
    Competing at Regionals (Eastern Great Lakes, Oct. 5-8 in Louisville, KY) might be a good way for Alissa to ease back into competition, IMO.

    She could be assigned to Ice Challenge in Graz, Austria, Nov. 19-24, which would give her both a chance to earn the Olympic minimum TES and a bye through Midwestern Sectionals (the same week in East Lansing, Michigan).
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2013
  4. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,959
    Go Alissa! I would like to see you on Sochi ice!
  5. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,448
    Sorry, you are right.. I think when I read the rulebook descriptions my mind automatically went to the 3 spin elements in the men's Sp -flying spin in one position, change foot spin & combination spin.
  6. stjeaskategym

    stjeaskategym Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2002
    Messages:
    1,277
    Either way, Alissa is going to be forced to compete twice in those 2 months, even though Regionals + Sectionals requires less travel and may be slightly less taxing. But if she's going to do well at Nationals, she probably really needs that competitive experience in the fall.

    Excuse me for venting about this once again (since this seems to affect at least one of our international skaters every year), but the qualifying system for Nationals is a joke. Sectionals should more important than Regionals, yet as long as you have a conflict, you can just skip Sectionals even if you had been forced to show up at Regionals. It's just a joke. As a National champ/World team member/multiple Grand Prix medalist in this quadrennium, Alissa has done more than enough to prove herself as a worthy international competitor and should have the freedom to arrange her fall competition schedule in a way that best suits her, her health, and her "comeback plan". The mandatory qualifying system should be for the less established skaters who are not expected to have any chance to represent the US internationally this year.

    It just irks me that it's of utmost importance that Alissa goes through the qualifying system (if she doesn't do 2 internationals), yet many a pair team (even lowly ones) have avoided the qualifying system all together due to a lack of entries. Why can't USFS just admit that the qualifying system ends up being silly in several instances? And in times of injury, I sometimes find it almost cruel. The whole system could use an overhaul for the benefit of the skaters. Okay, back on topic.
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2013
  7. jlai

    jlai Title-less

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Messages:
    8,777
    So by the same token Johnny Weir and Miki should get a bye from their federation? And how does one define "less established skaters who are not expected to have any chance", unles they get a chance to shine in the first place?

    Good luck to Czisny, but there's no getting out of competing internationally or nationally during an Olympic year if she wants a spot
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2013
  8. leapfrogonice

    leapfrogonice Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    557
    Well said stjeaskategym. Alissa was the Grand Prix Final CHAMPION in this past 'quad' - that should count for something at least on par with having half of a pair team that may have earned enough ISU points. Seems almost cruel, and also cuts into a place in the qualifying system for a skater whose journey to this point is actually perhaps making it out of regionals and/or sections for the first time. I remember when something similar happened perhaps 2 or 3 seasons ago, and a senior lady at regionals who placed 5th missed out on a chance to have her season progress. Double cruel + heartbreak.
  9. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2011
    Messages:
    3,536
    What do you mean, exactly?

    As far as I know, the only skaters who really get to arrange their fall competition schedule to any significant degree are the previous season's World medalists who get some say in which Grand Prix competitions they will compete in. Other than that, skaters have to be invited or assigned to international competitions, and if they aren't, their only option is to participate in domestic events, which, in the U.S. in the fall, means Regionals and Sectionals. Czisny, for example, cannot make the USFSA send her to Skate America or a Senior "B" even if she wants them to do so (and I'm not so sure she does).
  10. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,862
    Alissa would have to do an International B at some point to establish the minimum TES if she wants to qualify for Sochi. Presumably USFS would send her to a B if Alissa made it through Regionals and Sectionals.
    PeterG and (deleted member) like this.
  11. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    3,253
    A bye through to nationals, why not? By pulling the previously well known skaters out of the regionals/sectionals (assuming they're up to competing at nationals) then more skaters are going to get through and qualify for nationals. Though I'm guessing that as stjeaskategym specifically mentioned the last quadrennial a skater like Johnny might not be included since I think finlandia is the only competition he's done since the last Olympics, so he wouldn't qualify for the bye proposed.
  12. B.Cooper

    B.Cooper New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    319
    ^This.....

    I don't have an issue with USFS sending Alissa to a Sr B to establish a minimum TES score if her intent is to qualify for Sochi. But, to give her a direct bye to the US Championships, with no participation in a qualifying event (US Regionals or Sectionals), as others have posted, would involve scheduling international events for her to directly conflict with her regional and sectional schedules. That is certainly possible, but that also involves sending her out of the country, traveling, and I would also assume monitoring prior to those events to demonstrate readiness. That would be true for Johnny Weir as others have posted. Other skaters in this quadrennial that would qualify for this type of "bye" directly to US Nationals? Evan is scheduled for the SLC Sr B, IIRC, and also for SA SGP. As OGM, he has a bye to US Nationals. Other skaters who competed in this quadrennial that have had injury issues, changes of partners (and does that really qualify them for a bye?). If Emily Samuelson had a partner, would love to see her back at Nationals. :) Same for Caitlin Yankowskis. Rachael Flatt would also be a possibility for this group of athletes. Looking at other 2010 Oly athletes that are missing.....Jeremy Barrett (coaching/shows), Amanda Evora (coaching, college), Mark Ladwig (wearing many hats these days!), even Tanith and Ben (retired). But this idea opens up a lot of possibilities for skaters who have contributed during a quadrennial, to have the option to come back for US Nationals, one OLY cycle removed from their last Olympics. Intriguing thought.
  13. GoldenMichelle

    GoldenMichelle New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2003
    Messages:
    724
    The Skating Lesson's most recent (6/30) episode of This and That says that Alissa is doing triples up through the loop and that her progress is right on track.
  14. jlai

    jlai Title-less

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Messages:
    8,777
    I think there was already a lengthy discussion re: adding skaters to nationals and how that will cost US nationals organizers in terms of more ice time, facility use; in addition to a more lengthy discussion regarding fairness, what's really best for skaters regarding byes, etc. Every policy will be unfair to someone, sadly
  15. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

    Joined:
    May 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,045
    Re-posting from another thread - Czisny competed at a club competition in St. Clair Shores, Michigan this weekend:
    Thanks for alerting me that the results are up (this comp. usually has not published their results so quickly).
  16. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,480
    Alissa was the only senior lady competing
  17. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2007
    Messages:
    740
    Good to see her back competing-
  18. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

    Joined:
    May 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,045
    Relevant post-Champs Camp article excerpt from late August (link was originally posted in the U.S. Ladies news thread):
  19. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,448
    This sort of whiny nit-picking is, IMO, just lame. (And I really don't get the relevance of the Miki Ando reference here.) Of course the rulemakers would need to decide where to draw the line. That doesn't make it a bad or unworkable idea. If the USFS wanted to change the criteria for Nationals qualifying, they would simply have to make some decisions. If it was me, I would draw it at 2 or maybe 3 years since a top 4 finish at Nationals for starters. (I said top 4 instead of 3 to acknowledge the pewter medal.)

    This sentence makes no sense in the context of exempting past champion skaters from regionals-sectionals qualifying, since that change would not impact skaters who don't meet that criteria. Those "less established" skaters would get their chance to shine at regionals and sectionals, just like they do now. Besides, it isn't necessary to define "less established skaters" anyway. They just need to expand the criteria for qualifying outside of the regionals-sectionals process in specific terms like placements at specified events.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2013
  20. jlai

    jlai Title-less

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Messages:
    8,777
    To me qualifyin through past reputation goes against the idea of qualifying the best skaters based on how they are skating now

    I think Czisny is skating well, going by reports. She will get to nationals without the need of any rule change.
  21. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2012
    Messages:
    2,115
    Thanks for the update on Alissa, sounds like she's doing FABO! :smokin:

    Sometimes having an injury and sitting out a season or part of a season is a good thing and the skater comes back renewed/refreshed and better than ever. Plenty of examples in figure skating to support such a statement ~ Michelle Kwan (stress fracture in foot, sat out 1997 GPF), Sasha Cohen (stress fracture in back, sat out 2001 Nationals), Midori Ito (broken ankle, sat out 1985 Worlds), John Coughlin (torn hip, sat out 2013 Nationals & Worlds), Courtney Hicks (leg injury, sat out 2012 Nationals), and on & on...

    Here's hoping Alissa comes back better than ever (like those aforementioned) and fights for a spot on the 2014 Olympic Team! :hat1:
  22. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,448
    We're not talking about handing out spots on the Worlds team here, just getting into Nationals. From there, all the skaters still have to prove what they can do today. It just makes sense to let skaters with recent accomplishments focus on their training and plan their schedules to optimize their preparedness, rather than going off to these small-time qualifying events. (And please, don't try to argue that US regionals are not small time. Yes, for the kids and skaters with no results they are a big deal, but for skaters with senior international results, these are small.)
  23. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    11,073
    I kind of understand the idea of giving Alissa a bye to Nationals. Because Alissa going through Regionals and Sectionals means an unknown skater isn't going to get the chance to go to Nationals.

    Unless she has another tragic program where she falls and cannot get up; Alissa will make it through qualifying to Nationals. Her spins and PCS will carry her there, regardless of jump content. Because USFS does not qualify on past reputation, she will literally be taking someone else's spot. Sure, that skater had no hopes of being anything but bottom of the barrel, but making it to Nationals is a huge deal for most skaters.

    So I understand why Alissa has to qualify, but I feel real bad for whomever is 5th in her region, and even worse for whoever is 5th at sectionals.
  24. AJ Skatefan

    AJ Skatefan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2002
    Messages:
    2,189
    Well, those skaters will just have to work really hard to make it. It'll raise the competition level for everyone.
  25. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

    Joined:
    May 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,045
    Midwestern Sectional Senior ladies' competitors this November could include Ashley Cain, Hannah Miller, Mariah Bell, Barbie Long, Czisny, Flatt...

    I wouldn't have an objection if USFS decided to give a Sectional bye to 2-time National champ Alissa by assigning her to compete at Ice Challenge in Graz, Austria, in order to attain the minimum scores for the Olympics/Four Continents.

    Relevant excerpt from: http://espn.go.com/olympics/figures...5611/johnny-weir-sochi-not-registering-season
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2013
  26. jlai

    jlai Title-less

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Messages:
    8,777
    Same rule should apply to all USFS competitions.

    USFS already allow recent accomplishments take into account -- a top five finish at nationals past year. Maybe you want reputation to be a bigger factor--that's where we disagree and we'll have to leave it there.

    ITA There's no need to make a new rule at all. The Czisny team is not asking for exceptions either.
    I understand the push to give byes to all top skaters so more skaters can qualify for nationals. But I think cost is a factor and I sure am not footing the bill Nationals tickets are expensive enough as they are :slinkaway:
  27. smileyskate

    smileyskate New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2007
    Messages:
    667
    Are there any vids of her latest competition?
    Thanks!
  28. Stephanie

    Stephanie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2002
    Messages:
    1,740
    Good God, that is a ridiculously tough field. At least the lovely Kiri Baga has switched to Easterns
  29. jlai

    jlai Title-less

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Messages:
    8,777
    I thought there was talk about Czisny getting a senior B around the time of sectionals? If she does well at regionals I suspect that may happen.

    I hope M Bell makes the jgpf, for the sake of the sr ladies at MW
  30. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    Messages:
    6,959
    The USFSA may strategically want to assign 2-3 ladies to Ice Challenge just to clear the field a bit. A move like that wouldn't surprise me at all because as an example, 3 US pairs were assigned to Ondrej Nepela. I wouldn't doubt that one of the ladies assigned would be Czisny.
  31. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    11,073
    Okay, I take my statement back. That is a much tougher sectionals than usual. Alissa will need her jumps.
  32. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

    Joined:
    May 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,045
    Alissa won the Eastern Great Lakes Regional Senior Ladies event today with a total score of 145.12 (50.23 SP, 94.89 FS) and has advanced to Midwestern Sectionals in November.

    EGL Senior Ladies protocols:
    SP: http://www.usfigureskating.org/lead...14_eastern_great_lakes_regionals/SEGM019.html
    Czisny (22.75 TES/28.48 PCS, -1 ded.): 3Lz<< fall, 2T+2T (-3 GOE because a triple is required), 2A (-0.67), all 3 spins were level 4, level 2 step seq.
    FS: http://www.usfigureskating.org/lead...14_eastern_great_lakes_regionals/SEGM022.html
    She landed mostly doubles today, including both 2A (with + GOE) and 3Lz< fall; 2 of 3 spins were level 4, level 2 steps. 41.63 TES/54.26 PCS, -1.

    (Aside: Flatt has switched to the Central Pacific region, much more convenient to Stanford, and will not be competing out of SW/Mids after all.)

    ETA a photo of a smiling Alissa wearing her EGL gold medal: http://instagram.com/p/fN3T2glU-O/ (ETA: tweeted by an EGL Novice ladies' competitor and junior instructor at the Louisville SA host club)
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2013
  33. peibeck

    peibeck Counting down the days 'til Skate America

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2004
    Messages:
    16,099
    Considering the severity of her injuries Alissa should be proud of this result. However looking at those protocols it seems evident that Sochi seems rather unlikely.
  34. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,918
    Good to know Alissa got through regionals. Best of luck at sectionals!

    I'm glad Alissa is back and if I had to pick a sentimental favorite to give that 3rd spot to it would be her. Having said that, those kinds of scores would not even get her into the top 10 at nationals. There's still about 3 months or so left until nationals but I'm wondering how much can she improve in that amount of time.
  35. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Messages:
    9,254
    I'm hoping that she was just playing it safe at Regionals (and knew she could do so and still advance to Sectionals). Hoping she is able to up her content without injuring herself.
  36. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    11,073
    That's what I'm hoping - she knew she'd be fine with just doubles. Interestingly, ignoring the impact it would have had on PCS and well-balanced rules, if she did her freeskate without any jumps at all, she would have been 4th in the free; and still moved onto sectionals.
  37. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2012
    Messages:
    2,115
    Copied & pasted my reply from the K&C here:

    Great news for Alissa. :) She doesn't want to rush it like she did before and cause further injury and sit out time. One step at a time, which she is doing nicely. Her spins, well-choreographed programs, elegance, PCS, and double axels should easiliy qualify her for Nationals, and rightfully so. It's not all about triple jumps after all, and I agree with that. :cool:
  38. arcuel

    arcuel New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2011
    Messages:
    30
    Umm...do you realize that she's going to be up against Ashley Cain, Hannah Miller, Mariah Bell, Barbie Long and Kiri Baga? That's not going to be easy at all. She'll need triples.
  39. jlai

    jlai Title-less

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Messages:
    8,777
    Kiri Baga is in another sectional, I think?

    Yes, Midwestern is a tough field, and Czisny will need a couple of triples.
  40. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

    Joined:
    May 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,045
    Yes, New England region/Eastern section.