Aliona Savchenko/Robin Szolkowy's 2013-14 programs

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Sep 3, 2013.

  1. Eislauffan

    Eislauffan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2002
    Messages:
    3,974
    Success is relative and depends also on the "material" you have. I think he achieved success with the Swiss couple Anais Morand/Antoine Dorsaz (they made it to the Olympic Games) and also Tatiana Volosozhar/Stanislav Morozov improved under him. These teams obviously were weaker than Savchenko/Szolkowy, but you don't always have World Champion material on your hands.
    I think that Ingo Steuer is a demanding coach. He is very hard-working and he expects the same from his students. Not everybody can deal with this. Since he started working as a coach, he has been focused on Savchenko/Szolkowy and right now wouldn't take on or form any other top team anyway. He does coach a junior lady, though, Lutricia Bock. She finished 7th at the JGP in Riga, which is not bad for a German lady. ;-)
    We will see what happens after Savchenko/Szolkowy retire. I am sure that talented skaters would like to work with Ingo and he can produce more champions. Another handicap for him is that he is based in Chemnitz and not everybody is ready to relocate there. He himself didn't want to move elsewhere as he has good conditions in Chemnitz plus he wants to be close to his son.
     
  2. Ninchen

    Ninchen Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2005
    Messages:
    706
  3. rickmercer

    rickmercer Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2013
    Messages:
    104
    I love both Savchenko & Szolkowy and Volosozhar & Trankov. I wish their rivalry was closer. So far it is so dominated by Savchenko & Szokowy it is not even a real rivalry. 4 World titles to 1 and head to head also in favor of S&S. Hopefully this year V&T can improve and make it more of a rivalry rather than just one sided S&S dominance like it has been so far.
     
  4. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    28,550
    S/S are such a special team. They're really revolutionized pairs, and they've showed such range throughout their career. They've tried everything and made nearly all of it work. How many other teams could've pulled off "L'Oisseau" or "Pink Panther" or "Pina", nevermind all of them so well? I like V/T, but S/S I adore. It would be so sad that a team like them may never win Olympic Gold. I hope they can have two fantastic, clean skates in Sochi :respec:
     
  5. bek

    bek Guest

    I disagree. First of all, V/T weren't even a team all those years. I didn't expect them to win Worlds their first year together, and it was close the second year. V/T won by a landslide.

    I love both teams for different reasons, and I highly respect S/S creativity and modern look towards pair skating.
     
  6. rickmercer

    rickmercer Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2013
    Messages:
    104
    Well World titles is still 4 to 1, and meetings at Worlds is 2 to 1 so overall S&S are way ahead. V&T need to start beating S&S more and win more big events to make it a real rivalry. Right now it is more rout than rivalry. It seems in the judges eyes the only way V&T can beat S&S is if S&S bomb and V&T skate virtually perfect, so V&T must need a lot of improvement left.
     
  7. la.louise

    la.louise New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    68
  8. bek

    bek Guest

    I am sorry I don't think that's the case. First of all, in terms of 2 to 1 world titles, I think the first world competition is immaterial. That was V/T's first season together, its unrealistic to expect them to win worlds their first international season. Heck S/S didn't even medal at their first worlds.

    The second year V/T came very close to beating S/S.

    And this year they are the reigning World, European, and GPF champions. They beat them. I think judges like at the current skating, and V/T have done enough I think to be considered rivals to S/S. In some ways I think the momentum is going in V/T's favor. They are younger, faster, and more powerful. I do think at times S/S though doesn't get enough credit for their transitions.

    I think both teams have their strength and weaknesses. But its ridiculous to say that V/T aren't considered worthy rivals, and you want to bet that S/S take them very seriously in deed as rivals.

    My one concern is I think the Olympics being in Russia may hurt S/S too.

    If you look at the judges scores, I don't think its the case that V/T and S/S aren't considered in the same level.

    I'm frankly torn about who I want to win this one. On the one hand, I hated how S/S were treated in 2010 with Shen/Zhao are returning etc. And I don't think Shen/Zhao so much out skated them at the Olympics either... It was the PCS.

    On the other hand, the Russians "getting their gold back" in Sochi... I do admire everything Russia has done for pairs. So its a hard thing. May the best skates win.

    I do wish that V/T would leave Nicolai.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2013
  9. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2009
    Messages:
    733
    Ice dance and pairs seem to have very obvious top two contenders and both contenders in both disciplines seem to be doing very well early on. In pairs, if the programs are perfect, i would have to give the nod to the Germans. No weird music selections and a flow that has captivated me since 2006 Olympics. The Russians are very good and attractive but their choreography has been underwhelming lately. Their power and consistency has been fabulous. I just hope that both pairs do their absolute 100% best. It's been a long time since we've seen that in pairs.
     
  10. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2002
    Messages:
    12,902
    I question whether S&S can carry the Nutcracker. IMO classical is not their forte.
     
  11. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,680
    ^^ Well, classical Russian skating style has certainly not been S/S skating style, but that doesn't necessarily mean they can't "carry" the Nutcracker. ITA that S/S are more known for their own unique, innovative and quirky style, but still their style has always been grounded on the basic foundations of pairs skating technique(which is heavily influenced by Russian classical style). So, for their final competitive season, they are deciding to do something more along classical lines in Sochi.
     
  12. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2002
    Messages:
    14,079
    Thanks!

    I really see David Wilson's influence in the SP opening choreo... very much his style of hit-you-over-the-head-"artistry." Their lines look fantastic.

    I like the parts of the Nutcracker that they showed.... her carriage is so beautiful and she was playing the innocence of the character very well... I'm sure this will be a much better program than Bechke/Petrov or Shen/Zhao's Nutcrackers.
     
  13. vocal

    vocal New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2013
    Messages:
    41
    At first I wasn't trilled about the music choices. But I liked the glimpses of their programs. Very promising. It is always a joy to see their lines. Wish them good luck.
     
  14. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2002
    Messages:
    12,902
    I think Shen/Zhao's Nutcracker will be impossible for S/S to beat, especially given Shen/Zhao's amazing connection. Their connection was not only romantic, but truly exemplified the pairs ideal of 'two shall skate as one'. This was particularly evident in The Nutcracker and they also skated that program completely clean and perfect.

    They got 6.0s across the board for artistry in that program. Although they had no chance of beating T&M due to making a serious mistake in the SP, the free skate competition belonged to them. The brilliance of that program and the judges' and audience's response to it, overshadowed T&M's win.
     
  15. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    13,516
    I never was amazed by Shen & Zhao's Nutcracker but then again I was never a huge fan of that team like many on this board. I prefered Beckhe & Petrov's from 92 artistically, although in a head to head competition I am sure S&Z would have won over B&P's as technically it was so much stronger than even B&P's best performance to it in Albertville. I will wait and see what S&S come up with. I wouldnt think that music is actually suited to them and surprised at the choice, but they might surprise me.

    The 6.0s for ANYONE at those Worlds are completely meaningless btw as the judges were clearly scoring on a ridiculous scale in a goodbye to the perfect 6.0 celebration. 57 6.0s were given out that week, including perfect 6.0s to people like Winkler & Lohse and Pang & Tong (on the artistic mark). Navka & Kostomarov had something like 11 6.0s, and it wasnt for a legendary program or anything. Kostner even got a 5.9 for technical merit with this skate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGZ8Gu_shO0 Shen & Zhao had the best performance so they had to be given lots of 6.0s after they had already given even eventual bronze medalists Pang & Tong a 6.0 and a bunch of 5.9s, and T&M higher marks than that.
     
  16. Jeschke

    Jeschke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2009
    Messages:
    3,275
    i just came home from holidays and saw this link.
    thanks so much.

    i can't watch it and hear the music of the sp without getting teary eyes, knowing s/s will definetely be gone from competition after this season.

    i can't hope and pray enough for their deserved finale.
     
  17. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2008
    Messages:
    1,227
    The 40-second part of S/S's new short program they showed in the video actually is a choreographic style I often see in Canadian pairs. Very smooth transitions from one element to the next, no apparent breaks in the motion over the ice, the program just flows seamlessly from the beginning to the end. One example that comes to mind is Purdy/Marinaro's SP from last season. But of course, S/S skate in a completely different league.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YE4G0Ix1QY

    Anyway, I suppose Steuer wanted his students to work with Wilson over the summer for a reason that goes far beyond Ingo thinking that David is such a nice guy and fun to be around.lol

    Re classical not being S/S's style, maybe there weren't many fans of figure skating who thought The Nutcracker would suit Xue Shen and Hongbo Zhao, however S/Z skated beautifully to the Nutcracker theme IMO. That S/Z were not everyone's cup of tea? Well, what skater is?;)

    Do Aliona and Robin plan on attempting the throw 3A jump in both programs or just the long one?
     
  18. Jeschke

    Jeschke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2009
    Messages:
    3,275
    it has been told in different press releases, that they plan to put the 3a both in the sp and in the fs.
    we will see, what will happen; but the 3a would come after twist and solo jumps in the sp (as you can say by the clip); but who can do this at the end of a free skate, why not at the end of a sp? ;)
     
  19. KimGOAT

    KimGOAT Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2012
    Messages:
    719
    Just wondering to those more experted in pairs than me does a clean skate with their new throw triple axel ensure German team of gold medals? Or do top Russian team still have to make mistake or more than one mistake for German pair for gold medal, and how big of?
     
  20. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    Messages:
    3,596
    If I’m guessing at the elements correctly and the order they are in, S/S will have a buffer of well over 7 points with the two throws. If both teams are level 4 clean, V/T will have to get all +3 to S/S +2. Unless V/T put in harder jumps, they’ll only beat them with one lift worth .70. I guess it may come down to who is 'cleaner' GOE wise.

    Being in Russia could hurt V/T or help them, it a tremendous about of pressure they really haven't had yet.

    Also, S/S won't be competing in the team competition; V/T will be competing their short a few days before. That could also help or hurt them.
     
  21. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2003
    Messages:
    17,065
    I'm very excited to see both of their programs this season. I can't wait to see exactly what parts of The Nutcracker they have chosen. Can't wait for the season to start. :cheer2:
     
    halffull and (deleted member) like this.
  22. Lis

    Lis Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    Messages:
    252
    Thank you for the link ,it sure looks promising!

    also interseting info on the points difference between V/T and S/S tecnic contents.
     
  23. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2008
    Messages:
    1,227
    Yes, I did notice the throw jump is not their opening element.:) I wasn't thinking of endurance but rather a conservative strategy they might want to go for in the short program. On a second thought though, it only makes sense for them to include the 3A in the SP too. With V/T usually tending to get better GOEs overall on their elements, S/S will definitely need a higher base value.

    No crazy costumes, please.:slinkaway
     
  24. Eislauffan

    Eislauffan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2002
    Messages:
    3,974
    Here is another TV report on Aljona Savchenko/Robin Szolkowy's preparations. They got their costumes! (report in German). http://www.mdr.de/sport/sport-im-osten/video149896.html

    The designer said that Aljona had an idea about the costume and that they were on the same page from the beginning.

    So what do you think about the costumes?
     
  25. shah

    shah Shhh...

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2006
    Messages:
    2,675
    Oooh, shirtless Robin :p.
    The sp costumes seem very, hmm, tight ;).
     
  26. vocal

    vocal New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2013
    Messages:
    41
    Like the SP costume. Suits very good to the music. Whereas the colors of her FS dress and his sleeves do not match very well IMO.
     
  27. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    28,550
    I didn't even notice the costumes; there's a shot of Robin in his underwear :swoon:
     
  28. lao1234

    lao1234 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2002
    Messages:
    95
    I hope she doesn't plan on tanning to match the illusion netting for the long program - that would be truly unfortunate.
     
  29. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    11,439
    I really hope they change that illusion to something lighter. It looks awful. Even if they tried to match the color of her tights would be better!
     
  30. Jun Y

    Jun Y Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,115
    Their free skate consumes are utterly baffling. Robin's costume has an obvious oriental theme, but why? It's supposed to be Nutcracker not Turandot. (The music is a very bad idea to begin with, in my opinion.) The colors are unwatchable.