Aliona Savchenko/Robin Szolkowy's 2013-14 programs

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Sep 3, 2013.

  1. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Re-posting from the German news thread:

    Article (published today, Sept. 3) in English about their new programs: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2013/09/03/59401840
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2013
  2. Jeschke

    Jeschke Well-Known Member

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    ok, so the pas de deux is in. although steuer is mentioning, they are not using all the familiar sounds of the nutcracker, i think this is no surprise.
  3. Jeschke

    Jeschke Well-Known Member

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    by the way.
    great, that s/s will go for one final national championships to complete their 10yrs cicle which exactly began in berlin.

    hope this 3 will enjoy their final season and get what they deserve.
  4. Tinami Amori

    Tinami Amori Well-Known Member

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    Is it sure that Rieu composed and not arranged "WHEN WINTER COMES"?

    When Winter Comes is an old piece and many play it in their own arrangements..... Plus Rieu is not really a composer..... no time for composing, too many women chasing him.....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP8maKtZ-Lk

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INHBeMA0ooI

    I am just asking, it's one of my favorite music pieces....
  5. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    I can't think of any other 'modern era' skater/team in any discipline who has pushed the boundaries as much and who has shown so much difficulty in their programs as well as making them memorable and original (although there were some bad apples in there as well - last season's SP for example).

    I think that the fate is pretty much sealed now and V/T are a lock for Olympic gold barring unexpected disasters. The judges love V/T and S/S get no point advantage for clearly superior programs. To be fair to V/T, they are also a much more consistent team so the odds are definitely in their favour. If S/S do end their career without an olympic gold medal, I will be extremely sad but well that's life. S/S probably would have been much more consistent if they watered down their programs but it's their difficulty that has made them so unique and memorable.

    (It's also a huge shame that Steuer has turned out to be such a despicable individual, given the quality of his work. Although it's interesting how he was never able to achieve success with any other team.)
  6. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I hope he meant they are using the pas de deux among other pieces. The triple axel at the end is awesome, but wouldn't it be smarter to do it at the beginning of the second half? The bonus is the same, and you know the judges aren't going to give anything extra in the PCS for that. Although I guess as Ziggy said, that's why they are innovators.

    I'm really looking forward to the "risky new lifts" and new step sequence. I have always wanted to see Aljona as a ballerina so I'm glad this dream will finally come true. :)
  7. Eislauffan

    Eislauffan Well-Known Member

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    Well, I wouldn't say that Volosozhar/Trankov are so much more consistent. They made lots of errors in the GP last season, and only at Worlds they were superb. Also last season they weren't so consistent (remember that freak fall on the death spiral at Worlds in Nice?).

    It will be very difficult for Savchenko/Szolkowy to beat them, but IMHO this is mostly due to the fact that Volosozhar/Trankov are Russia's only realistic chance for a figure skating gold medal in Sochi and the Russians are throwing everything they have behind them. That's why the "judges love V/T". Don't get me wrong, I love both teams and think they are both great, but it annoys me that there is a difference in what kind of "politics" they have behind them. The Germans have next to nothing as their Federation is weak.
  8. AxelAnnie

    AxelAnnie Well-Known Member

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    The Nutcracker? Really? From this team? Boy, seems oxymoronic to me. But I am happy to be surprised.
  9. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Well, I really was hoping to see Aliona and Robin skate a long program to modern-themed Othello music, but maybe that was too neat and cliche of an idea. They are nothing if not nutcrackers to conventional expectations. ;)


    ITA with your points, Eislauffan. Very well expressed. :respec:
  10. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    Unexpected disasters is also a signature for this team, remember the last Olympics? The pressure will be a million times greater, not only an Olympics IN RUSSIA but they are already slated as the OGM favorites. With all things being equal, I think clean programs from both of them will give S/S the edge esp with the 3A throw. It just doesn’t sound like V/T will have anything groundbreaking.
  11. Eislauffan

    Eislauffan Well-Known Member

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    You are absolutely right. The skaters probably meant Andre Rieu arranged it for them. It is definitely Chris de Burgh's piece. :)
    I really love it and think this can be a stunning program.
  12. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    I'm really excited to see these two programmes. It sounds like they've been saving the classical LP for this Olympic season. The only concern I have is with the intention of putting the throw triple axel in both programmes - have they actually managed to land it clean in competition yet? I don't think they landed the SP attempts they put out on the GP the season before last, and I can't recall the number of times they've tried it in the LP, the only time I can think of is the last worlds where it was not clean. I can't help but worry about an element they don't seem to land in competition, but i guess they too feel that V&T are going into this season as favourites with a likely home crowd boost for the Olympics.
  13. allezfred

    allezfred Prick Admin Staff Member

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    Volosozhar/Trankov didn't compete as a team at the last Olympics. ;)

    For the truly innovative programmes that they Savchenko/Szolkowy have provided us throughout their career, I'd really love for them to win gold in Sochi. Probably not going to happen unless something disastrous happens to Volosozhar/Trankov who are also a great team. Shame about their programmes though.
  14. elka_sk8

    elka_sk8 Well-Known Member

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  15. Lis

    Lis Member

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    a despicable individual ....Really do you know him ? I have found him a very engaged coach and choreographer who loves his sport. Talking to him is very imspiring. I also must say that I am glad he asked Tanya what kind of music she and Maxim had chosen for their FP so now we have the 2 top pairs with totally different music style which I think is great :)
  16. Eislauffan

    Eislauffan Well-Known Member

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    They have attempted the throw triple Axel only once in the LP- in London this year at Worlds. It wasn't perfect, landed deeply in the knee but I think she landed on one foot (might have touched down with her hand though): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2PZaUtsu-A
    In the SP at Worlds 2012 in Nice, she two-footed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frNXcGMwl64

    She missed it twice in their GP events in fall 2011, then they switched back to the throw triple flip for their third GP and the GP Final. They didn't compete at Europeans 2012. They didn't attempt it at SC 2012, then they missed TEB and the GPF in 2012. They also didn't go for it at NRW Trophy 2012 and Europeans 2013.

    So, if I counted then correctly, they attempted it altogether four times in competition: SA 2011 SP, NHK 2011 SP, Worlds 2012 SP, Worlds 2013 LP. She fell twice, she landed it twice but not completely clean. They have landed clean ones in practice that I've seen. To me it looks like they should be able to get out clean ones in competition this season. I'm sure they'll include it really only into the program if they land it consistently in practice. Last season they only tried it at the end because of Aliona's illness last fall that cost them a lot of training time.
  17. Eislauffan

    Eislauffan Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Lis, I completely agree with you. Ingo Steuer might have made mistakes in the past and he is not an easy character, but he is by no means a "despicable individual". I have known him for many years, as a competitor and as a coach. He also does charity work that people don't know about.
    IoanaC and (deleted member) like this.
  18. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the information Eislauffen - much appreciated. I'm hoping that they start to land it clean in competition. No doubt with the height and length they're getting it would receive +GOE as well.
  19. ostile17

    ostile17 Active Member

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    ^Thank you!!!
  20. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

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    THIS a thousand times.

    I really wish they would receive credit for the dfficulty in their transitions as they make everything in the program that much more difficult. And i love the creativity they show in the types of movement employed in their programs. They are some of the all-time greats of the sport.

    Cherub, i too am looking forward to seeing Aliona take on ballet in a program.

    And thank you so much for all the info, Eislauffan!
  21. Dave of the North

    Dave of the North Well-Known Member

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    Look on the bright side, VolTra might run afoul of of the rule change in ISU communication 1817.:EVILLE:
  22. Lis

    Lis Member

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    Thank you Eislaufen too for all the info :)
    and I didnt know Ingo did charity work too.
  23. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely! Thank you Lis and Eislauffan for your comments about Ingo Steuer. I met him once at a World Pro event and found him to be very engaging, personable and delightful to speak with. Ingo's imaginative and creative collaboration with Aliona and Robin has invigorated the pairs discipline in the boring era of CoP.
  24. Lis

    Lis Member

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    well I know what pair I like the best!
    At first I was very unsure, but then it became very clear. I thought of which one of them will I miss the most after their final competetion.
    It is Aljona and Robin!
    When they are gone they will be greatly missed since they are very unique in style and have programs you just can't wait till you get to see, what have they done now with their creativity!
  25. sus2850

    sus2850 Member

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    I am a bit shocked by the word "despicable", I would not use it with any person I met. I sometimes have had difficult moments with Ingo Steuer when interviewing him after some not so successful programs by his team and that sometimes made me a bit angry. But I love how authentic he is, he speaks his mind, you get real feelings, no PR speak, sometimes this then can sound quite undiplomatic. But he can also be full of humour and he can be very generous. I love how passionate he is about the sport, I also admire his stubbornness and his sometimes still boyish joy when things go well.
    Some charity work he did recently was helping flood victims in Saxony, by the way.
  26. vocal

    vocal New Member

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    Same here. Outstanding programs will be remembered, outstanding elements won't. So I wish Aljona & Robin best of luck for the season.
  27. AxelAnnie

    AxelAnnie Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. They have pushed themselves, the sport, and the viewer! Love them.
  28. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    I think it might be worth it. I remember seeing a lot of upvoted YouTube comments under their Worlds FS video saying stuff like 'A throw triple axel right at the end, wow!' Even if it will be double-footed, it will still be worth a lot of points and leave a really strong impression.

    I am feeling very apprehensive about them doing it in the SP, though. Not sure if the risk is worth it. They must be thinking that the only chance for them to beat V/T is to pull all the stops out. The Pairs events at the Olympics is going to be the most :drama: competition ever.

    That is a very good point. Especially, given the Olympics will be in Russia and as we say in Polish 'even the walls support the hosts.'

    V/T obviously are a very strong team. I just feel frustrated with the fact that S/S' program difficulty isn't being rewarded. And it's not about S/S per se, it's my big issue with figure skating, in general.

    Being an informer for the Stasi and then lying about it is as low as it gets. I can understand that people might have felt scared and pressured into doing it back then. But he had an opportunity to come clean and apologise. He never did.

    As for being engaged, he has produced some incredible work with S/S. But he has never achieved success with any other teams and it seems to me that he has a low tolerance for frustration. I remember one of the German teams leaving him amongst a lot of tension with the break-up being anything but amicable. I also remember when Fitze/Rex left him and switched to Monika Scheibe and in their first competition under her wings, they have improved some of the issues that they have been experiencing for years under Steuer. I also remember Steuer making some aggressive public comments (it was at a press conference IIRC) about one of the Knut Schubert's teams and the way they work, which was really uncalled for.
  29. rfisher

    rfisher Satisfied skating fan

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    I love both V/T and S/S and hope one of them wins gold. I'm sad that one of them will not because both teams are excellent skaters. I wish V/T had had benefit of Steuer's chorography, but they didn't. She didn't when she was with Morozov and he was their coach. He has always saved the best for S/S. Since I figure there will be :cheer2: and :wuzrobbed regardless, I just hope both teams skate their absolute best in Sochi. Especially, since one or both will quit afterwards.
  30. Finnice

    Finnice Well-Known Member

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    I have been a huge fan of Aliona and Robin from the first time I saw them live, which must have been in Mowcow Worlds 2005. They really have been groundbreakers for the new style in pairs, and even with flaws, they are interesting to watch. My heart hopes they will really have a :kickass: season, because this will very likely to be their last competive season. I will sadly miss them when they end their competitive career. She especially is amazing, such a tiny woman with such inner and outer strenght.
  31. Eislauffan

    Eislauffan Well-Known Member

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    Success is relative and depends also on the "material" you have. I think he achieved success with the Swiss couple Anais Morand/Antoine Dorsaz (they made it to the Olympic Games) and also Tatiana Volosozhar/Stanislav Morozov improved under him. These teams obviously were weaker than Savchenko/Szolkowy, but you don't always have World Champion material on your hands.
    I think that Ingo Steuer is a demanding coach. He is very hard-working and he expects the same from his students. Not everybody can deal with this. Since he started working as a coach, he has been focused on Savchenko/Szolkowy and right now wouldn't take on or form any other top team anyway. He does coach a junior lady, though, Lutricia Bock. She finished 7th at the JGP in Riga, which is not bad for a German lady. ;-)
    We will see what happens after Savchenko/Szolkowy retire. I am sure that talented skaters would like to work with Ingo and he can produce more champions. Another handicap for him is that he is based in Chemnitz and not everybody is ready to relocate there. He himself didn't want to move elsewhere as he has good conditions in Chemnitz plus he wants to be close to his son.
  32. Ninchen

    Ninchen Active Member

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  33. rickmercer

    rickmercer Member

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    I love both Savchenko & Szolkowy and Volosozhar & Trankov. I wish their rivalry was closer. So far it is so dominated by Savchenko & Szokowy it is not even a real rivalry. 4 World titles to 1 and head to head also in favor of S&S. Hopefully this year V&T can improve and make it more of a rivalry rather than just one sided S&S dominance like it has been so far.
  34. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    S/S are such a special team. They're really revolutionized pairs, and they've showed such range throughout their career. They've tried everything and made nearly all of it work. How many other teams could've pulled off "L'Oisseau" or "Pink Panther" or "Pina", nevermind all of them so well? I like V/T, but S/S I adore. It would be so sad that a team like them may never win Olympic Gold. I hope they can have two fantastic, clean skates in Sochi :respec:
  35. bek

    bek Guest

    I disagree. First of all, V/T weren't even a team all those years. I didn't expect them to win Worlds their first year together, and it was close the second year. V/T won by a landslide.

    I love both teams for different reasons, and I highly respect S/S creativity and modern look towards pair skating.
  36. rickmercer

    rickmercer Member

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    Well World titles is still 4 to 1, and meetings at Worlds is 2 to 1 so overall S&S are way ahead. V&T need to start beating S&S more and win more big events to make it a real rivalry. Right now it is more rout than rivalry. It seems in the judges eyes the only way V&T can beat S&S is if S&S bomb and V&T skate virtually perfect, so V&T must need a lot of improvement left.
  37. la.louise

    la.louise New Member

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  38. bek

    bek Guest

    I am sorry I don't think that's the case. First of all, in terms of 2 to 1 world titles, I think the first world competition is immaterial. That was V/T's first season together, its unrealistic to expect them to win worlds their first international season. Heck S/S didn't even medal at their first worlds.

    The second year V/T came very close to beating S/S.

    And this year they are the reigning World, European, and GPF champions. They beat them. I think judges like at the current skating, and V/T have done enough I think to be considered rivals to S/S. In some ways I think the momentum is going in V/T's favor. They are younger, faster, and more powerful. I do think at times S/S though doesn't get enough credit for their transitions.

    I think both teams have their strength and weaknesses. But its ridiculous to say that V/T aren't considered worthy rivals, and you want to bet that S/S take them very seriously in deed as rivals.

    My one concern is I think the Olympics being in Russia may hurt S/S too.

    If you look at the judges scores, I don't think its the case that V/T and S/S aren't considered in the same level.

    I'm frankly torn about who I want to win this one. On the one hand, I hated how S/S were treated in 2010 with Shen/Zhao are returning etc. And I don't think Shen/Zhao so much out skated them at the Olympics either... It was the PCS.

    On the other hand, the Russians "getting their gold back" in Sochi... I do admire everything Russia has done for pairs. So its a hard thing. May the best skates win.

    I do wish that V/T would leave Nicolai.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2013
  39. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

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    Ice dance and pairs seem to have very obvious top two contenders and both contenders in both disciplines seem to be doing very well early on. In pairs, if the programs are perfect, i would have to give the nod to the Germans. No weird music selections and a flow that has captivated me since 2006 Olympics. The Russians are very good and attractive but their choreography has been underwhelming lately. Their power and consistency has been fabulous. I just hope that both pairs do their absolute 100% best. It's been a long time since we've seen that in pairs.
  40. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

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    I question whether S&S can carry the Nutcracker. IMO classical is not their forte.