Aliona Savchenko/Bruno Massot & Ingo Steuer saga (UPDATED: S/M now in Oberstdorf; Steuer in FL)

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Mar 30, 2014.

  1. nicolas23

    nicolas23 Member

    88
    15
    8
    if they really perform next week it means that they are matching pretty well then
     
  2. la.louise

    la.louise New Member

    68
    13
    0
    Cherub721 and (deleted member) like this.
  3. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    20,569
    1,599
    113
    There aren't any available partners for Savchenko in Germany, though. So you can't really object because her choice is either not skate any more or to switch the country again.

    I think it's extremely unlikely that the German government is going to re-consider Steuer's case on an individual basis (adherence to the rules, regulations and the law seems very important in German culture) so them representing France is probably a done deal. It would be great if DEU managed to surprise us all, though.

    The height difference is huge! 4twist and throw 4flip incoming? :)
     
  4. Irish-Angel

    Irish-Angel Member

    195
    16
    18
    Pretty unlikely: maybe yes. Impossible: no. I´ve done a research lately about the beginnings of the stasi affair, which included Steuer, but he wasn´t the only case. There were obviously more coaches who were incriminated having collaborated with the Stasi. Three cases (including Steuer) were found guilty, as the allegations were considered especially serious in their cases. One coach simply has withdrawn from his work. The second one went to the
    Olympics in Torino so much as undisturbed (his back covered by the german ski fed DSV). He is still working as a coach for german athletes now.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2014
  5. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    20,569
    1,599
    113
    If a miracle happened and Steuer's situation was re-considered and he was given funding, I think that the 2-year sit out could paradoxically work in Savchenko/Massot's favour. By the time they compete in their first event, they would have already been 'soup.'
     
  6. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

    20,836
    3,723
    113
    If they're already being invited to Kim's show, during those two years they could earn money skating in as many shows as they can get, without worrying about a competition schedule.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2014
  7. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

    14,513
    1,858
    113
    OMG, that photo! How exciting.

    Two years is a lot IMO. Petrova/Tikhonov, for example, WON their second Worlds (and I think Savchenko/Massot have more potential than they did). Volosozhar/Trankov were soup after only a year, winning silver at Worlds, and they could have won their second Worlds if not for a mistake in the SP. If S/M have to miss two whole seasons, they are only giving themselves one chance to win the Worlds before they skate at the Olympics. Really, it was short-sighted of her to skate at this year's Worlds. She should have sat them out like Volosozhar so she could have done 2015 Worlds.

    I also think, judging by these photos and the fact that they're already skating in a show, Savchenko/Massot are gunners and would be bored and restless sitting around for a very long period of time without doing competitions other than Nationals. Clearly, they want to be seen, and the next season or two are an opportune time if V/T take time off and plan to start up again in 2017. France seems to have more national competitions than Germany as well so they could probably compete at French Masters or something.
     
  8. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

    20,836
    3,723
    113
    Sort-sighted and impulsive, considering that she told Radford last fall she was planning to continue with a new partner after this season. She was the one who insisted on Worlds, and she already knew that Sochi wouldn't be her last competition.
     
  9. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

    14,513
    1,858
    113
    Yeah, I don't know why she convinced Robin to skate at Worlds knowing she wanted to compete next season.
     
  10. Irish-Angel

    Irish-Angel Member

    195
    16
    18
    Forgive me to say that but that is just crap, for the lack of better words. I get it that missing the worlds she wouldn´t have to sit out a year (but that is what they might need anyway to become a successful pair), but what she also wanted (like every skater in pairs who already had a very successful and fulfilling career) was a satisfying end of that.
    By the time this pairing up came out, it wasn´t even sure who it is going to be. Aliona said in a recent interview that she would even sit out two years if this means she could skate for Germany again. Like it or not, it became her second home.
     
  11. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

    5,567
    1,799
    113
    There was nothing to be gained for Volosozhar/Morozov by skating at 2010 Worlds, whereas Savchenko has her sights on a world title and a satisfying conclusion to her partnership with Szolkowy. Not to mention that they did not yet know who would be switching nationalities if the pairing works out - yet Massot also competed. If the two of them really want to make their debut next season, I think France has a reasonable chance of qualifying for the WTT, and they can do that.

    I imagine they won't do a full complement of elements at ATS, but I can certainly see them competing at the Masters and Nationals assuming that they will be ready to beat J/C. I don't see them competing if they aren't ready to be the French no. 1s.
     
  12. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

    14,513
    1,858
    113
    I always forget about WTT... that would be a great way to start in front of ISU judges.
     
  13. nicolas23

    nicolas23 Member

    88
    15
    8
    if the german federation are willing to release her it means they have no intention to change a thing about steuer case
     
  14. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

    5,567
    1,799
    113
    I agree, and a number of federations had skaters make their senior debuts at the WTT. The one disadvantage is that I think they won't be able to take advantage of the split/returning couples rules for GP assignments in that case, though presumably it would get them on the season's best list, and with the pairs fields being so thin it's not that difficult to get two assignments.
     
  15. Irish-Angel

    Irish-Angel Member

    195
    16
    18
    It can´t be them, because really....they (DEU) can do nothing. That is a case for the DOSB (German Olympic Committee). They will have more say in that.
     
  16. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

    20,836
    3,723
    113
    Since there were no partners for her in Germany, she would have had to sit out a year in any case to switch countries, even with a release. Since she had her sights set on Massot or Russian skaters as back-ups, the chances of any of them being released, based on behavior of the French and Russian skaters was slim-to-none, especially without a payoff, which the Russian Fed might have been amenable to if they weren't creating a team that could be competitive immediately with S/K and a couple of years down the road with V/T.

    The difference between skipping Worlds and not is that with a release, she could have earned a minimum score with new partner at a February/March senior B and competed at Worlds 2015. Choosing closure of some kind at Worlds after convincing Szolkowy to compete there, might have given her satisfaction, and she's entitled to do what she wants, since Massot knew the score going into the partnership or was willing to accept a change of plans, but it was not good competitive strategy for someone who claims to want to win 2018 Olympics *at all costs*.

    She may have been counting on Massot and thought that since he's going to Worlds, she might as well, if they were skating for Germany, since it wouldn't matter. Skating for France, it could matter a lot.

    WTT isn't a given going forward, AFAIK, but it would be remarkably stupid of the ISU to sucker-punch the Japanese Federation by replacing it at Worlds with a TE taking the place of the SP in a combined Jr/Sr Worlds.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2014
  17. lily

    lily Active Member

    375
    38
    28
  18. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

    32,461
    4,843
    113
  19. nicolas23

    nicolas23 Member

    88
    15
    8
    can someone translate please
     
  20. Pasdedeux

    Pasdedeux Member

    46
    7
    8
    The twist was huge.
     
  21. Irish-Angel

    Irish-Angel Member

    195
    16
    18
    Thanks a lot for clearance, Kwanfan. I just think, that they (S/M) will compete whenever they may be ready for it. But seriously, don´t you think, a half year of training will be enough for them? I mean, OK they could earn some points for the worlds 2015, but what´s to gain for her (with 5 World titles)? Another World Championship (and that won´t be the case)? A few points for what? I get it that they might have to build up a reputation as a new pair.....a year sooner or later I still don´t see the point to hurry it.
     
  22. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

    20,836
    3,723
    113
    If they are trying for a repeat of V/T's success at their first Worlds, becoming an immediate contenders for the title, then competing there could have bern worth the risk. V/T even had new a new rink and coaching situation, with Morosov trying to teach Trankov new twist and IIRC throw technique, and Trankov said they were a mess together for the first six months; still they managed to get silver, within a little over seven points of S/S.

    Massot has the advantage of already having been coached by Steuer, who knows them both well, and Steuer has already had much more experience coaching a top pair, while Mozer was figuring it out as she went along in V/T's first years. :)respec: for Mozer for having figured it out and for letting her team do their jobs.) S/M have a bit of a jump on V/T in that sense.
     
  23. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    20,569
    1,599
    113
    Isn't it the Federal Ministry of the Interior that is ultimately making that shot?
     
  24. Irish-Angel

    Irish-Angel Member

    195
    16
    18
    First the reporter introduced Bruno Massot as Alionas partner. Ingo mentioned the gloom in Alionas eyes.... and giving credits to both how good they would match together, and how good they are to work with. It is mentioned that of all candidates, Bruno was the desired candidate. Bruno talked about the extraordinary chance skating with her, and that he will do his best. The reporter speaks about the question which is still open: for which country will they start. He said that this question basically comes down to which country will pay Ingo as a coach. It is explained, that if they will skate for France they´ll have to sit out a year (with clearance), if they skate for Germany it is two years (without clearance).
    Aliona is asked where they will locate. She said that they will start in Chemnitz and see what time brings, and where they are going to be later. She hopes that they will stay in Chemnitz, because she couldn´t think of a better place.
    Ingo said, that if Germany will pay him, and find a way to finance them, they will sit out two years.
    At the end the reporter mentioned All that Skate at the weekend, which will be their first appearance together.
     
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  25. Irish-Angel

    Irish-Angel Member

    195
    16
    18
    Double post, sorry!:rolleyes:
     
  26. nicolas23

    nicolas23 Member

    88
    15
    8
    thanks irish-angel
     
  27. nicolas23

    nicolas23 Member

    88
    15
    8
    in my opinion it's risky to sit two years
     
  28. Irish-Angel

    Irish-Angel Member

    195
    16
    18
    @ Ziggy:
    Yup exactly, and the only committee who can put some pressure on their backs is the DOSB which has way more weight as the DEU. It is possible apparently, because with a little pressure from the DSV (Ski fed) one of the other Stasi charged coaches went to Torino (Olys) pretty much undisturbed, while Ingo had to put up a interim injunction against the judgement. Look I wouldn´t say anything if Steuer would be the only one who was accused. But apparently it were three coaches, one of them is still working until today as a coach in competitive sport.
     
  29. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

    3,754
    1,662
    113
    I don't understand how anyone can expect Savchenko& Massot to be challenging for medals at the their first or even second worlds - they are light years from being equivalent to V&T who in their previous partnerships had each gone as high as 4th at worlds (and were often a place or two away from each other) and were usually next to each other placement wise at Europeans where Murkartova& Trankov got silver and two bronzes. The best two skaters from two reasonably comparable (talent and result wise) pairs were taken to create a better pair than their previous pairings.

    Absolutely no disrecpect meant to Massot, but he is the weaker skater compared to Savchenko by quite a large margin, evident even from the clips of them practising. He will have to do a lot of work in the next couple of years to get up to standard, and even then I think they'll be lucky to squeak out a medal at worlds or Europeans.

    I really do look forward to seeing them skate and seeing what they can do, however, expectations that they will pick up where Savchenko & Szolkowy left off seems pretty unrealistic, and Savchenko seems to be the one who thinks this will be the case.
     
  30. Xela M

    Xela M Active Member

    903
    215
    43
    If Oksana Kazakova can be taught to skate and win Olympic Gold and Europeans within a couple of years, I think anything is possible :p