Aliona Savchenko and Tatiana Volosozhar - Would they have been successful as singles?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by l'etoile, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    I've sometimes wondered, looking at their performances as pairs skaters, what if they were competing as singles skaters?

    They both are much more consistent, less prone to make mistakes, and often praised to have better edges/skating skills than their male partners. Actually, their skating skills are something to be admired even in all disciplines.

    What do you guys think? Would they have been also successful as singles skaters?
     
  2. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    It depends on the jumps they could have landed !
    With only 3T and 3S, they couldn't have been successful.
     
  3. Kasey

    Kasey Loving on babies!

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    While Savchenko I think is much better in terms of skating skills and consistency than Szolkowy, I think Volosozhar and Trankov are pretty evenly matched. And no, with only a two jump arsenal, they wouldn't have been successful.
     
  4. RFOS

    RFOS Well-Known Member

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    (double post)
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2012
  5. RFOS

    RFOS Well-Known Member

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    Their basic skating skills are excellent and while they might not be able to do (or do consistently) the more difficult triples, if they had more training time to put into working on those as opposed to on pairs skills then maybe they could. Their technique is certainly good on the jumps they do, and they clearly are strong since they can land throw jumps that have much more power than any individual jump ever would. I don't know at what age they took up pairs or how they had done in singles at the time, but I'm guessing they weren't as successful as they wanted to be at that time which is why they took up pairs. It obviously was a good decision for them, but they probably could have developed the jumps to succeed in singles also. This is total speculation though. But depending on your definition of success, they probably could be successful nationally (if Tatiana had continued skated for Ukraine) with what they're actually capable of, since Germany and Ukraine don't have any top ladies contenders at the moment.
     
  6. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    Aliona also skated for Ukraine, through 2002.
     
  7. zilam98

    zilam98 Well-Known Member

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    this question reminded me of one commentator's query about katia gordeeva being successful as a singles skater at the peak of her career with sergei. i think this was after the 94 olys. and how that remark closely preceded sergei's death and katia's eventual transition to singles skating (although only in pro shows).
     
  8. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Definitely not. Neither has enough jump difficulty or consistency.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2012
  9. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I know that's the case in the US, but I don't think it's true everywhere that people who go into pairs are unsuccessful single skaters.

    Otherwise, what everyone else said - unless they could have gotten the harder triples, they would have maybe been successful at the national level and gone to international events, but they wouldn't have done particularly well in them.
     
  10. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    I think with their skating skills, it wouldn't have been that difficult for them to obtain lutz and flip and to consistently land them.
     
  11. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    ?
    Rotating a 3Lutz is not just a question of skating skill.
    I guess they started Pair skating because they couldn't improve their jumps as a junior.
    Katia Gordeeva has probably one of the best skating skills ever, I doubt she could land 3Loop or more.
     
  12. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    On the flip side, they might have spent less time working on skating skills and positions if they had to spend much more time training jumps.

    And knowing the Soviet practice, they probably were picked for pairs at a young age once it was evident that they had potential ot become good. The Soviets love their pairs and didn't pay as much attention to their singles ladies until this quad.
     
  13. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    Why do people assume that pairs skater = failed singles skater?
     
  14. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    I see. I was overseeing that jumps ability are not always in the same equation with skating skills.

    Then, to all: who comes to your minds when we think of someone with excellent skating skills but not so great jumps?
     
  15. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    The first names that come to mind are men: Mark Mitchell, Paul Wylie, John Curry.

    They could do the jumps that most of the guys were doing at the time, but not as big or as consistently as many of their competitors who were not as strong at basic skating and presentation.
     
  16. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    Thank you! I was just going to say that. Some skaters do just love skating with a partner or love the lifts, throws and twist. Some may find it far more challenging then singles, especially getting two people in unison.

    Aliona and Tatiana would have been amazing single skaters. Both started doing pairs around 13 or 14 so they didn't give singles much of a chance, you really can't if you want to be good in one discipline. But that doesn't mean they failed. What they wearn't learning in pair skills they would have made up for with single skills.
     
  17. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    They probably both aspired for pairs because they enjoyed pairs, although sometimes skaters who don't have a full arsenal of the necessary jumps for singles do try pairs or dance if they wish to continue competing. I like seeing both Tatiana and Aliona as pairs skaters (and they are lucky to have found their successful match in partners) so the question is moot, IMO.
     
  18. SmallFairy

    SmallFairy Well-Known Member

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    David Liu from Taiwan! Anyone remember him? He couldn't jump to save his life, but I remember his straight line steps, on one foot, he had great skating skills. I believe it was Nagano Olympics.
     
  19. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ I think Lucinda Ruh had good jumps, but excelled more at other elements, particularly spins. Jumps were not her strong suit. Also, Stephanie Rosenthal had excellent dance, musicality and interpretation skills, but did not have all the triple jumps in her arsenal, so I doubt her goal was to make it to the Olympics. Her goal was probably achieved in creating two rockin' programs and making it to Nationals in 2006, which she accomplished with great style. Skating truly is not all about the jumps.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rnkku5aJzZM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMwXYdkSK4g
     
  20. SmallFairy

    SmallFairy Well-Known Member

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    David Liu from Taiwan! Anyone remember him? He couldn't jump to save his life, but I remember his straight line steps, on one foot, he had great skating skills. I believe it was Nagano Olympics.
     
  21. lulu

    lulu New Member

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    Along the same lines, I wonder how Elena Valova would have fared as a singles skater? Unlike Katia, who began skating with Sergei at a young age (10-I believe), Elena was originally trained by Mishin, before eventually becoming a pairs skater. As a pair team, V&V, unique for the time, performed side-by-side triple jumps.

    Great point. :respec:
     
  22. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    For skaters in the 1980s and before, they might have chosen (or been chosen for) pairs over singles because they were better at freestyle (including but not limited to jumps) than at school figures.

    Also, as has already been pointed out, if pair skating was considered more glamourous or prestigous than singles, as seems to have been the case in the Soviet Union, then it wouldn't likely be a second choice.
     
  23. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    Mark Mitchell's '93 US Nats LP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsbN2_RNNzg This is the first time I've heard of him, and I see why you picked him. He is sublime:swoon: And it's the same music that John Curry skated to his OGM in Innsbruck. What an amazing coincidence!
    Paul Wylie's '92 Olympics LP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nLhA7CVIok It was an extraordinary performance from him!I think Paul fits the most to the description of excellent skating skills but with technical problems.
    John Curry's '76 Olympics LP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djadlQLK_ow He's really got a superb line and skating skills with such great control and command of jumps and edges.


    Beautiful performances. Sometimes watching performances like these, especially that SP, I think figure skating doesn't always have to be evolving around jumps. There are so much more that skaters bring onto the ice than rotating the jumps and landing them.

    Is this him? It is from Albertville Olympics.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZUXUv7nV-g His artistic skating just shone through this performance. Also, Scott mentions that he had problems landing the jumps but other than that he was very artistic.
     
  24. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Of course that isnt the case, but only a pairs skater who can easily do triple toes, triple salchows, and double axels without missing them hardly ever has a hope to acquire the technical repertoire needed to be competitive in singles today.

    Someone like David Pelletier was an extremely consistent jumper for a pairs skater and even he was a mediocre singles skater.
     
  25. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Mark had such great posture, line and musical interpretation! He definitely was unlucky in not making the Worlds team in favor of medical byes for Christopher Bowman and Todd Eldredge. I'm sure those experiences informed Mark's views about medical byes re 2006 Olympics. It's great seeing Mark and Peter J in the kiss 'n cry these days with their skaters.
     
  26. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    But if they weren't busy working on pairs skills (lifts, twists, throws) when they were young teens they would have had time to build a better arsenal.

    I think the original poster meant if they weren't pairs skaters to begin with-not if they quit and started skating skingles now. If not, I mis-understood the question.