Alexei Mishin interview in SportExpress

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by quiqie, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    A lot of us admire Plushenko and don't think he's evil at all -- and you can put me firmly in that camp. I have seen him skate live and he DOES have a commanding presence on the ice. However, PCS is not about just having a presence on the ice. If *some* of you had taken the time to understand what PCS actually mean, you might actually understand when it is said that Plushenko is overscored in some of those categories. This "overscoring" has taken place since 2010 and it's based upon WHO did the program cause I can tell you that if one of the younger skaters did Evengi's programs exactly the same way and got the PCS that he got, many on here would riot. That is NOT to say he likely didn't deserve to win, but not by the margin or with PCS that he was given.

    Giving credit where credit is due, Plush was ONE of those who called for the quad to be worth more. I seem to recall another skater at that time who thought the quad was undervalued -- goes by the name of Joubert. Name ring a bell? so please, let's not give Plushy credit for EVERY change that has taken place in men's skating. That's just absurd and smacks of entitlement. Oh and I doubt it was because Plushenko wanted the Olymics in his country that it is going to take place there. If he really has that much leverage, he would have had them take place say in ohhhhh 2010 when he was that much younger rather than 2014 when his body is beginning to let him down.

    That being said, I wish him well and good health between now and the Olympics.
     
  2. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    Don't you get the joke?
    If you don't know, Plush was the ambassador of Sochi Winter Games, like Yuna of the Koreans's. He was in Guatemala when the Olympic Committee made ​​the decision. Since this event he has many fans in Guatemela..and in Mexico too :))
    Yes, Brian also said the quad is undervalued, but what happened? Nothing...But after Vancouver Plushy has said his opinion, and his fansprotested at the ISU and IOC, the european experts also protested at the ISU, the ISU has changed the rules. This is so obvious, I don't understand, why you didn't see the connection.
    In wich competiton was he overscored since 2010?
    He had two real competition...
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
  3. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    What is obvious is that you only see through Plushenko-coloured glasses and I wish to heaven you'd take them off for a few minutes and see that the world is NOT Plushenko-centric. I would venture to say that the scoring for quads got changed not JUST because of what Plushy and his "fans" said -- and it's not the only thing that has been tweaked since COP was given to us.

    Plush may have been the ambassador for the Sochi Games but I highly doubt the games were given to Russia solely because Plushenko wanted them. That's just about absurd.

    As for his PCS overscoring since 2010, how about this.
    There is at least one other competition -- perhaps Russian Nationals? -- whose results I can't find but many felt he was overscored on PCS yet again. Think those who were there felt he got the benefit of calls due to "skating while being Plushenko". I'm pretty sure there is at least one topic about such and to be honest I've spent enough time trying to track down stats for Plushenko. You think the sun rises and falls in him, many of us don't. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
     
  4. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    You still seem deny the obvious... or the ISU waited until a North-Am skater wins in the Olympics-quadless champion-, and then wanted to change the rules?The ISU has changed the rules in june 2010. Interesting.
    You are right, I'm a big fan of Plushy, thus I know all about him, I know every relationship.
    If you don't believe me, look at this wikipage:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadruple_jump_controversy
    About ECH 2012:
    Plushy's PCS
    SS:8,89 TR 8,25 Perf 9,21 Choreo:8,82 Interp: 9,25 = 88,84
    He received lower scores wich was worse. But his performance and interpretations were really fantastic. No one was able to remove themselves from the effects.
    And he deserved that victory! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBJtNXvyWbg Univeral sport. I wanted to show you what said the Eurosport commentators, but the ISU blocked it. I don't know why. The commentators said he is better than ever...
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
  5. GoGreen

    GoGreen New Member

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    Someone should re-take an entry level class about logic and reasoning, so there won't be so many fallacies in their argument.

    Plushenko wanted the Olympic to happen in his home country, and he got his dream realized in Guatemala. This is not the same argument that you claimed that I was making, " the games were given to Russia solely because Plushenko wanted them".

    Someone should learn what is called a "straw man fallacy".
     
  6. AragornElessar

    AragornElessar Well-Known Member

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    I don't know why some are trying to make others see reason and sense. It never works.

    Now...Let me get this straight...Plushenko had Spine Surgery recently and both he and Mishin are trying to make it sound like a minor thing?

    Really?

    That viewpoint scares me more than anything else I think I've read in this thread.
     
  7. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    It's been a relatively routine and non-debilitating procedure in the past. While it has risks, they have no reason to believe that it's not going to go smoothly this time.
     
  8. Twilight1

    Twilight1 Well-Known Member

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    Spinal disc herniation is not nearly as serious as people think. If he has a discectomy, he could be back on the ice within 3 months.
     
  9. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

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    So is that what he had? A discectomy? His description sounded like an epidural steroid injection, but he didn't really say much to make me figure it out one way or the other.

    And yes, laparascopic discectomy is relatively minor, and some even feel like they have their body back within days. I had three herniated discs from all my wear and tear and did it the long hard way, just limiting my activity. I did do a 3 round course of epidural steroid injections, but it didn't really help. I probably would have gotten as much relief from just taking Prednisone orally for three months. But people I know swear by the discectomy. To me it sounded too invasive for someone who was not an athlete of any sort.
     
  10. Twilight1

    Twilight1 Well-Known Member

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    I had it August 23rd and was thrilled to be relatively pain free within a week after. I was exercising at 6 weeks and now can do pretty much anything. I am back to work Monday. I would recommend this surgery to anyone... I hate taking meds and was taking T3's, Toradol, Cyclobenzaprine and Lyrica pre-surgery. Now, I take nothing.

    I am not sure what surgery he had...
     
  11. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Why bother. :) This thread hurts my soul as much as those 2010 Plushenko programs.
     
  12. Glacier cat

    Glacier cat New Member

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    I think you tell a lie! Because I always see your name on any threads under his name or related to him. In my opinion it is a kind of love ;)
     
    rfisher and (deleted member) like this.
  13. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Haha absolutely. I respect him very much as an athlete. I just think he is somewhat misguided and could be even greater if he didn't focus so much on jumps. Having said that, I am absolutely fascinated by his program this season.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2012
  14. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    Matter of taste..:) If that is a bad program, he can skate it awesomely. It is in Bejing. Wasn't you there?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5lAZtvnkak two 3A, not bead, not bad in a show

    The Chinese crowd went crazy for it..
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2012
  15. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    So cute!;)
     
  16. quiqie

    quiqie Well-Known Member

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    Interview 10.12.12 http://www.sovsport.ru/gazeta/article-item/574901

    Sovsport: What do you, as Plushenko's coach, think about men's single skating?
    AM: I think nowadays, men's single skating symbolizes all the things progressive that there are in our sport. There were times when figure skating symbols were Belousova/Protopopov, Rodnina, Torvill/Dean. Now men are leading from the front.

    SS: There is an impression, that if Plushenko had skated here in Sochi, he would have won.
    AM: It's your words. But I won't argue with it.

    SS: What would you say about Liza and the ladies' event?
    AM: Liza proved once again that she's a fighter. It's such a difficult moment for her, her knee is hurting - and to skate like she did... Let's see how other Russian girls would have skated in such condition. Did we think about withdrawing? It's a forbidden thought. To come to competition and not compete? What is the point of that? As for ladies' skating, in contrast to men's skating, it doesn't symbolize the progress in figure skating now.

    SS: What do you expect from the comebacks of Olympic champions Evan Lysacek and Yu-Na Kim?
    AM: Once I told Liza at a practice: "Someday you will get married, will have a baby, will leave the ice and then will come back." Zhenya didn't let me finish: "Liza, never make a comeback. You can't imagine how difficult it is. I won't wish that for anyone."

    SS: What programs in pairs skating did impress you the most?
    AM: Three Russian teams are the leaders in the world figure skating. It didn't go so well for Kavaguti/Smirnov, but their free program is great.

    SS: You said that Russian teams are leaders, but what about four-times World champions Alyona Savchenko and Robin Szolkowy from Germany?
    AM: The Germans are outstanding athletes. You can call me their fan. But I didn't get their free program to "Bolero" this year.
     
  17. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan Well-Known Member

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    Wow, that is a great interview, he is neither denying nor agreeing with Plushenko would have won it comment. I like his comment on Men's skating a lot.
     
  18. rfisher

    rfisher Satisfied skating fan

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    I think he was on point on everything. Liza's personality and his seem to fit together well. She has the same competitive spirit as Plushenko which is what Mishin wants in his best students. (something which Gachinski is lacking IMO). I think she'll be just fine when she adjusts to the changes in her body. I only wish Adelina had half the determination, but I digress. When you look at the top ladies, they are not progressing at the moment. At. All. Maybe the 14-16 yos will change things in the next quad, but this last one has been unspectacular to say the least. Not that that doesn't make competitions interesting because there really are no overwhelming favorites. And I agree with him about K/S free program. It's one of the best there is this season. Too bad they often make multiple mistakes in the short. :(
     
  19. kosjenka

    kosjenka Well-Known Member

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    I am not alone with not getting Aliona&Robins Bolero program. It is just so dull.
    Mishin is always interesting to read, weather you can agree with him or not.
     
  20. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    ITA. Bolero is just background music as the Germans go from one element to the next. There's no connection. I can't believe Ingo is giving them this.
     
  21. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    Now see, I would have to disagree with you on what I bolded. What he said was
    In my books, not arguing a point or statement means that you agree with it, but are trying to soften your stance on it. That's just been my experience when someone says "you said it but I won't argue with you about it". It's kind of an implicit understanding that you are agreeing without saying such. Considering that he was speaking of Plushenko, I can understand why he might not have come out explicity and agreed/disagreed. Plushy is someone who casts a very large shadow in Russia -- he has given that country much to be proud of in terms of how well he has competed.

    I agree with you that it does seem he is "happier" about the direction men's skating is now going.
     
  22. kosjenka

    kosjenka Well-Known Member

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    Its almost bizarre to watch, especially with those costumes...

    When i remember the program they used to have back in 2008. Something extremely difficult to skate to and yet they were just perfect.
    Maybe they manage to do a 180 and impress us all. Hope to see them live in Zagreb.

    I would love to meet Mishin as well. Coaches are so surprised when fans want to take pictures with them. I remember bunch of fans making a placard for Muriel Boucher-Zazoui. She was stunned.
     
  23. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Wise man Mr. Mishin is; always good to choose one's words wisely. :)