Alexandra Paul & Mitchell Islam

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by skatingfan04, Mar 13, 2011.

  1. Pratfall

    Pratfall Active Member

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    I don't want to minimize the problem... but we'll just have to see what shakes out at Canadians and 4CC.. we have seen very talented , hard working teams manage to catch a bit of momentum before.. I think it's possible though far from assured for both teams. With P/I, I think they've made good progress at DSC and we haven't seen them in weeks , so there can be more to come from them even this year.

    Their FD ,especially, is an excellent vehicle..and I hope their polka has shaped up a lot. I don't worry so much about the music choice ..not like I did at the beginning of the season. If I/K can get away with their SD, it won't be the music , but the levels that tell the tale.

    ETA;..Um..I wonder if they're taking part in DSC's pay-per-view Skating Gala? it's soooo close to Canadians..but just a hop, skip and Jump down the road... If so , I hope someone will report.
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2013
  2. skatingfan04

    skatingfan04 Active Member

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  3. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Paul & Islam are scheduled to perform one of their programs tomorrow night. :)
  4. skatingfan04

    skatingfan04 Active Member

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  5. Pratfall

    Pratfall Active Member

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    Looking good. I'm liking how all the highlights are coming right on cue..go , guys!
  6. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Thank you!
    Its amazing how canadian ice dancers look light on there feets :swoon:
    All the best at Nationals to them (like all other skaters).
    P.S. Its amazing - she look like Tessa :)
  7. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    O, and i watched new team - Olson-Hubbel. They look promissing :)
  8. skatingfan04

    skatingfan04 Active Member

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    I'm really liking the way they look right now. There were a few bobbles, but little things like that don't worry me too much. What I did see was an improvement in speed, power and confidence, which I think are going to be the factors that come into play when you consider the fight between them and Gilles/Poirier. Their unison seemed pretty on as well. I can't wait until next weekend! I'm going to be at the Hershey Center to watch the SD and the FD (as well as pairs, men's and ladies free skates and the gala), and I'm actually counting the days down. :D:D:D
  9. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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    I'm rooting for them to beat out Gilles and Porier too. Enjoy yourself skatingfan04...give a yell out for me :)
  10. skatingfan04

    skatingfan04 Active Member

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    Thanks :D It's my first ever nationals (I've been dreaming of going to one since I was very young), so I'm REALLY excited!! And I'll be sure to yell extra loud when P/I skate for all of their fans here. Is anyone else going to be there??
  11. lavenderblue

    lavenderblue Active Member

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  12. skatingfan04

    skatingfan04 Active Member

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  13. Rafter

    Rafter Well-Known Member

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    So....where do P&I go from here? Devastating result for sure. It was practically a tie for 3rd with O&W. I'm disappointed SC is not sending them to 4ccs. In a way I'm not surprised they had a mistake, they hadn't competed that FD since mid or late Sept. Thats too long between events. I think they are nervous competitors and need to get out more competing throughout the season to get more experience and also to help them get an ISU ranking for GPs.

    Their SD was beautifully skated (and undermarked) and their FD was WAY more difficult and detailed than G&P's. They are also much stronger skater/ice dancers than O&W. Much better packaged and turned out. Very frustrating. I hope they don't quit.
  14. flowerpower

    flowerpower Well-Known Member

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    ITA. But I think the current scoring system is part of the problem. The nuances that are so difficult and take so many years to master in ice dance aren't being rewarded. P/I's SD was fantastic and I was disappointed to see them behind G/P at that point already.

    They do seem error-prone, but then again W/P also were at one time, and they seem to have improved a lot in that area. I really hope P/I persist. I suppose that SC wanted to send G/P to 4CC since W/P's chances of being at Worlds seem slim, so best to get G/P as much prep as possible in hopes of winning 3 spots for the Olys. That wouldn't leave room for an O/W vs P/I skateoff.
  15. Marta24

    Marta24 Member

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    I was so sad for them,I hoped they would get silver.But the good thing is,that they have a coaching team around them,that can deal with these situations.I remember that after the 2006/2007 season Faiella/Scali considered to stop,because they were slowly dumped by the international judges,but Camerlengo convinced them to continue.After that season their careers kicked-off with two medals at ECH and one World`s medal.
    And look what they did for W/P. After they didn`t qualify for the Olympics,a lot of people thought,they could never become one of the best teams in the world,but they did it.

    Paul/Islam have too much talent to stop.I think,they just need a breakthrough moment like the 2010/2011 FD at Worlds was for Weaver/Poje.
  16. skatingfan04

    skatingfan04 Active Member

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    Agreed! I was so heartbroken for them. It was such a shock for those of us sitting in the stands, especially since they were skating such a lovely program. Their SD was spectacular in person, it really was. There was an energy in the building while they skated, they managed to get the whole audience into the palm of their hands. I hope that they felt that at least. Trust me, they made fans out of a lot of people that day. I hope they keep fighting. You get the sense watching them that they are capable of greatness. All the makings of it are right there, they just need them to come together. I agree, all they need is a breakthrough, and for luck to work in their favor for once.

    I do think of Weaver/Poje when I look at these two. W/P were in pretty much the exact same position a few years ago. They missed worlds multiple times, and it looked like they were fizzling out. Everyone had written them off. Boy, did they ever prove everyone wrong. I hope that P/I can take inspiration from them, and keep fighting.
  17. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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    They are such a young team (age wise) and so talented. I would be very surprised if they gave up at this point. It was a silly mistake and one that I hope doesn't happen again. I enjoy them and am hoping to see them next year if not before. You never know what will happen, they may luck in one of these days.
  18. skatingfan04

    skatingfan04 Active Member

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    A lovely message from P/I on Facebook. Nice to see that they've still got a fighting spirit. :kickass:

    https://www.facebook.com/AlexandraPaulMitchellIslam

    Just wanted to get a couple of thoughts that have been rolling around in my mind out there. Thinking ahead to next season, P/I should be able to get some senior B events once again, which should help their international ranking. I also think they have a good shot at getting the host spot to Skate Canada. The other teams should be getting assignments based on worlds and 4CC, so P/I would be the logical choice for the spot. If all of that works out, along with their usual trip to Thornhill and likely the Lake Placid Championships, they should have a pretty good start heading into Nationals. Their chances at making the Olympics will depend on how many spots Canada actually has, but they'll be right in the mix. Even if they don't make it, they'll go to 4CC at least (the Olympic team almost never goes). All in all, I think they could have a really great year. I hope they come out all guns blazing next season. Their time in Detroit has already paid off in spades (the improvement was obvious at Nationals), so if they continue to build on that, they could have another breakthrough. Just my two cents. :D

    On a slightly unrelated note, I'm still a little confused as to how GP assignments are awarded. If someone could shed some light on that, I'd appreciate it.
  19. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Since P/I are not slotted for Worlds -- 1-12 are guaranteed two GP spots -- nor do they have a Season's Best (SB) score from a GP or championship -- only 1-24 on the SB list are guaranteed a spot and 25-75 are eligible to be picked -- and since they are #33 on the Worlds Standings list -- only 1-24 are guaranteed a spot -- the bottom line for them is that unless by some miracle they end up attending either 4C's or Worlds or are sent to World Team Trophy and end up with a Top 24 SB, the only way they'll be eligible for a GP spot is if they are chose for one of three Skate Canada spots for which they were passed up this year.

    If they were entered in and won one of the early season Senior B's listed in the GP announcement -- this year the US International in SLC, Nebelhorn, Nepala, Finlandia, Cup of Nice -- they'd be put at the bottom of the substitutes list. This year, the top of the list was barely grazed, there were so few substitutions.
  20. skatingfan04

    skatingfan04 Active Member

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    To clarify, that was what I was referring to. I realize they won't be able to make the top 24 internationally, but I was thinking they would have a good shot at being selected for the host spot. They were passed up this year in favor of Gilles/Poirier, who will now be going to worlds and will be able to get assignments without taking up a host spot. I'm sure SC realized how close P/I would have been to G/P if that fall hadn't happened, so one would think they would want to help them develop.
  21. geoskate

    geoskate Well-Known Member

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    I hadn't thought of that possibility, but now that you've raised the idea I think it's a great suggestion.

    My personal opinion of the World Team Trophy is that it is a useless competition, but if it could be used strategically to qualify some skaters for next year's Grand Prix series perhaps it would serve some actual purpose. It's not out of the question that Paul/Islam could achieve a top-24 personal best. Right now the cutoff for top 24 total score is about 135 points. It may go up a bit based on 4CC, Europeans and World Juniors, but probably not too much. (Last year the cutoff was 131 points at the end of the season, so I really don't expect the cutoff to go up past the upper 130's this season).

    Paul/Islam's scores at Nebelhorn and Salt Lake City were 137.92 and 143.76. If they were to score something similar at the World Team Trophy, that would likely be enough to make top-24. Yes, I know that the scores at Nebelhorn and Salt Lake City were likely a bit inflated compared to a true ISU international competition like the World Team Trophy, but on the other hand P/I's Nebelhorn and Salt Lake City scores were early-season scores. They have improved since then, so I think the stricter judging at a true ISU international would be more than compensated by their improvement since the early season.
  22. kwanfan1818

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    Skate Canada had a chance to maximize the number of teams who competed in GP this year, but they didn't. Ralph/Hill were guaranteed one spot by being ranked 21 in WS, and they didn't need a host pick. Gilles/Poirier were in a trickier predicament, because there were three ways they could get a spot: 1. As a host pick 2. After all the guaranteed spots were assigned, since as a "Returning split couple," G/P would inherit Crone/Poirier's top score from their last season and be at the top of the Top 75 who hadn't been assigned two or 3. From the top of the substitutes list, since C/P's score at 2011 Worlds alone would have put them at #11 of the SB list. If Skate Canada had bypassed them, and no other Federation picked them in the first round -- which France did anyway for TEB -- and if the substitutions followed the GP Announcement rule that the Top 24 SB would be given the chance to substitute in rank order, they would have gotten Nazarova/Nikitin's spot at Rostelecom Cup instead of Orford/Williams, who were given NHK Trophy for their #21 SB. However, there was a conflicting rule, which is that any of the Top five on the alternates list could be picked, which the Federations followed, ignoring the other rule, and it's possible that G/P would have received no assignments.

    A safe course for Skate Canada would have been to keep one TBD slot open and waited until the September deadline to see how the chips would fall. G/P were already assigned to TEB anyway, O/W were selected as alternates on 6 June for a second spot, and Ralph/Hill would have had to have been chosen by another Fed because of their #21 WS. If G/P hadn't received a spot, they could have used the TBD, but, since G/P received one in the initial selection, they could have assigned the TBD to Paul/Islam. It would have been possible for G/P to be chosen off the alternates list as well.

    However, Skate Canada did none of those things, and it's pretty obvious that they've been doing everything possible to push G/P. There doesn't appear to be a strict pattern in terms of Skate Canada's choices for the host picks, aside from offering the senior National Champion or highest-ranked healthy senior team from the previous Nationals still competing. They've done a better job of dividing the spoils in this Olympic cycle.

    • 2009 Skate Canada: Virtue/Moir (1), Weaver/Poje (3), Chong/Gfeller (4). Crone/Poirier (2) got NHK and Rostelecom from placing 12th at 2009 Worlds.
    • 2010 Skate Canada: Crone/Poirier (2), Paul/Islam (Jr. 1, 2nd Jr. Worlds), Arnold/Trojek (10, only other international was 10th at 2010 Nebelhorn). Virtue (1) underwent surgery that year.
    • 2011 Skate Canada: Virtue/Moir (1), Weaver/Poje (2), Harvey/Gagnon (5). Paul/Islam (3) were assigned to NHK (#18 SB) and Ralph/Hill were assigned to Skate America (#19 WS).

    After WTT, the next best that Paul/Islam could hope for is a top 12 finish for G/P at Worlds and that Skate Canada came to its senses and maximized spots by letting other Federations choose them, especially since there's an outside chance that if W/P can't compete in London, they technically will be guaranteed only one spot at GP next year. (Sadly, there isn't a rule that if a skater is both Top 24 SB and Top 24 WS, that skater gets guaranteed two.) If Weaver/Poje aren't ready for Worlds, then they should hope for a Top 12 finish from O/W, which is much less likely.

    G/P, with 4C's and Worlds, should be able to stay Top 24 SB in any case and be guaranteed one. O/W will have to raise their score at 4C's (and/or Worlds) significantly to have a chance to be guaranteed a spot, since they're at #30 SB now, and there are a handful of teams within shot of their 130.10 who will compete at Euros/Worlds. If O/W aren't Top 12 at Worlds or don't raise their score to Top 24 and aren't chosen for GP in the initial selection by anyone else, I would not be surprised if Skate Canada were to choose them for a host spot over P/I, although, IMO, they should to make up for not choosing P/I this year, or at least leaving a TBD and using Nebelhorn as a skate-off for the third spot against Ralph/Hill.
  23. intentions

    intentions New Member

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    I thought at one time there was a requirement that the WTT team consist of the best skaters in the category. In dance, only one team is sent and it needed to be V/M. Has this changed, or is there a way to bypass this rule and send federation choice?
  24. intentions

    intentions New Member

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    I do hope, that if at all possible,P/I receive the WTT spot.

    I like P/I, and think they are at least as good, if not better, than G/P. It would have been interesting to see what their marks would have been were it not for the stumble.
  25. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    You're right. I'd never looked at the announcement before to see the selection process for the participants. Even were V/M not to participate, P/I would be too far down the list to be considered.

    There are ways to get around the process, but mass food poisoning is hard to coordinate. There are several paragraphs worth of sanction this and sanction that for non-participants. The ISU is more strict about WTT than just about anything else, even more than for the Olympic team event, and, unlike for GP, the WTT announcement doesn't contradict itself or leave out entire selection groups.

    4C's and Worlds are the only places P/I could earn a higher SB score to earn a guaranteed spot. Otherwise, they're dependent on Skate Canada to assign a host spot.
  26. The Observer

    The Observer New Member

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    G&P have earned their success. Piper is not yet as strong a technical skater as Vanessa because she doesn't have as much international experience, but she is only going to get better each season. Paul of course is already one of the best male ice-dancers in Canada and he and Vanessa often beat W&P when they competed against each other, including for the 2010 Olympics and for the 2011 Canadian title.

    G&P have been together for less than 2 years so of course they aren't as polished yet as C&P were, but they worked hard to put down 2 solid programs at Nationals and were able to stay on their feet when unfortunately P&I and R&H were not. G&P are also becoming known for their lifts, and they even beat V&M in a couple of the technical areas in the Free Dance. Christopher Dean has taught Paul how to do some very complicated maneuvers that most other ice dance teams are not yet doing.
  27. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    G/P had a good first nationals. G/P may have been favorably compared to V/M in a couple of technical areas in the FD at this year's Canadian Nationals by a Canadian judging panel, but their international scores weren't significantly higher than P/I's this season. I disagree that they justified having two GP's to P/I's none, and there was a reasonable scenario by which they would have gotten two anyway, one in the initial selection and one as an alternate in place of Orford/Williams, although the latter wasn't guaranteed.

    Aside from G/P, Skate Canada had a chance to let R/H be chosen by another Federation and leave a TBD open for Skate Canada, using Nebelhorn as a skate-off between R/H (for a second spot) or P/I for a first.
  28. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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    Having been an avid fan of Crone?Porier over the last few years and realizing that they really didn't have a connection to one another but still were terrific skaters toghether, was really disappointed that they ended their partnership, and have since been rooting for the other Canadian teams who are coming into play. I was so impressed with P/I. They have a softness/smoothness to their skating and their moves are finished and precise (really bummmed out that they fell at Cans). Now, we are contending with Poirier with a partner with whom he has even less connection (he should have stayed in singles). Yes, they do a few tricky moves, but nothing they do moves me at all and to me they have no sex appeal at all together. All the other teams have it in spades and P/I are wonderful at portraying that connection whether they are doing a polka or waltz. I really hope they finally have some good luck with their assignments and competitions next year.
  29. skatingfan04

    skatingfan04 Active Member

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    Last edited: Jan 30, 2013
  30. lavenderblue

    lavenderblue Active Member

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    Thank you for those links, skatingfan04. And videos from the Media Markt Eisgala are finally becoming available!

    Get Here

    Smooth Criminal (Alex, Sinead Kerr, and Jenny Weiss w/ Eman)

    Finale

    They appear to still be in the process of uploading show videos, so "In Your Eyes" may also turn up (unless they're only posting videos of the performances with live music accompaniment, which is possible).
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2013
  31. The Observer

    The Observer New Member

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    Poirier should definitely not have stayed in singles - he is an ice dancer, not a single skater. He was doing single skating predominantly for the same reason that a lot of other ice dancers and pairs skaters do it for a while - it improves your single skating skills as a partner. And why should he have stayed in single skating when he wasn't advancing to the top whereas in dance he is a top-ranked skater? That wouldn't make sense.

    Despite being different people and having different levels of experience, Paul & Piper have managed to work well together and form a good connection in a short period of time. And they're already on their way to the Worlds together this year. They also do have their own chemistry - I'm not sure what type of 'sex appeal' you are looking for, but most of the other dance teams don't have much of that either.
  32. skatingfan04

    skatingfan04 Active Member

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  33. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    They can usually finagle a way out of it if they want to.
  34. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

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    WTT selection is based on World Ranking. The highest ranked skater/team is designated for the WTT unless there is an injury.
  35. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Last edited: Feb 25, 2013
  36. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    I think where they haven't followed the rankings, there wasn't a team and/or two singles skaters in the Top 2 WS for that country and in the Top 10 at Worlds. V/T were able to skip WTT because B/L also met the criteria. Assuming V/M and W/P skate at Worlds and finish Top 10, Skate Canada will choose one of the two.

    If W/P don't skate as planned, the next couples in line are Orford/Williams (1672) and Gilles/Poirier (1329). Since W/P have 3311 and neither O/W nor G/P can pass them even by winning Worlds, then V/M will have to be appointed, if they're healthy.
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2013
  37. skatingfan04

    skatingfan04 Active Member

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  38. skatingfan04

    skatingfan04 Active Member

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    So, after a fabulous worlds, another season is in the books.

    Congrats to the incredible Virtue/Moir and Weaver/Poje!!!! (I got to see the FD in person, but I'll supress my urge to gush about how electric V/M's Carmen was, and how spellbinding W/P were since they're not the topics of this thread.)

    Turning our thoughts towards the Olympic season, I wonder what all of you are thinking about P/I's chances. Thank's to W/P's incredible comeback, Canada get's to send three teams to the Sochi Olympics!! After watching Gilles/Poirier (finally!) getting marked fairly at worlds, I think Skate Canada might be rethinking their tendency to hold G/P up nationally, which should bode well for P/I. Thoughts?

    For reference, there's already a great discussion going on this topic in a separate thread.

    http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?87473-3rd-Canadian-dance-team-in-Sochi

    Additionally, I'm a but confused as to how the GP events are going to work out. Obviously, V/M and W/P get two apiece. Other than that, Canada has no one else ranked in the top 24 on the ISU standings. G/P finished out of the top 12 at worlds, so no guaranteed assignments for them. How does this work? Are V/M and W/P going to be the only Canadians on the circuit (with the exception of the host spot at Skate Canada), or do some of the others get assignments as well?
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2013
  39. Pratfall

    Pratfall Active Member

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    This has me nervous, too. I can't remember all the ins and outs from last year..It will be really harsh if there's only the host pick up for grabs...
  40. lavenderblue

    lavenderblue Active Member

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    G/P are in the top 24 Season's Best list, so they're guaranteed one assignment. But P/I never had an opportunity to obtain an ISU SB (can only be achieved at Grand Prix events or championships), and O/W are 26th on the SB list, so they're not guaranteed an assignment, either. Nor are R/H (43rd on SB).