Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by skatingfan04, Mar 13, 2011.
It'll be interesting to see how Gilles/Poirier affect Paul/Islam growth curve.
I don't think any more than Crone/Poirier would've.
Provided that the judging is fair, that is. We all saw what happened at nationals this year. As long as that doesn't happen again, I don't think G/P will be too much of an obstacle for P/I. I'm actually intrigued by how they will size up agains each other next season, especially since they'll likely go head to head really early in the season at Thornhill. Ralph/Hill will probably be there as well, so it should be quite a showdown.
I didn't know there'd been complaints about the judging. What happened?
Some felt that Gilles/Poirier were over-scored.
kwanfan is a master of understatement...
Many felt they were egregiously overscored.
What about music for next season? What style did you want to see they will use?
Yes, that sums up how I feel.
I think that was the general consensus with regards to the marks. If these two can just get through an injury free season, they will make strides.
I know. That's now two seasons in a row that Alexandra has had injuries severe enough to make them pull out of competitions. And they've only been together three. I can't wait to see what they do with a full year healthy.
I think they're a beautiful team - and that's in spite of all the injury setbacks. There's something about their skating that draws me in. I'm hoping next season is a real breakout season for them.
By the way, I ran across this blog the other day devoted to all things Canadian ice-dance. It seems to be keeping up to date with all sorts of news and tidbits. It has a really nice "Season in Review" for Paul/Islam.
Thanks for the link....I've bookmarked it . Nice article about P/I.
Thanks for the link! I'm a Canadian ice dance junkie.
This thread has been quiet for too long. Here are some updates...
Apparently P/I skated in a carnival for the Barrie FSC last week, but as of yet I haven't been able to track down any photos or videos.
They've also announnced the dates for the annual COS show (the Margaret Garriosn Memorial Gala) which will apparently be taking place May 12th in Brampton. I don't believe the cast has been announced yet, but one would assume that P/I will be included as they have been the past two seasons. More info is available at this link:
Thanks for the information.
No problem. Hopefully we'll get some pics from the COS show. We usually do. I'm thinking things will be really quiet re. P/I after that until Thornhill rolls around in August.
Paul/Islam are confirmed for the 5/12 COS show - they are listed among the National Team members here - scroll down: http://www.skatecanada.ca/Developme...rances/tabid/7864/language/en-US/Default.aspx
This is totally random but I came across this today and it made me think of P/I. A little dark, but I think they could make it look lovely.
Part of me is hoping they do a full out ballet themed FD in the near future. Something like that I/K did last season but with better choreography and a more romantic music selection. May as well put Alexandra's stunning extensions and their flawless lines to work.
That's nice. I can see them dancing to that....did you read the comments?
Lol, I did. Does anyone have any suggestions on music from a ballet that you think would work for them? My ballet knowledge is almost nonexistant (with the exception of Swan Lake, which I think is one of the most gorgeous pieces ever composed, but due to the popularity of Black Swan has made it's way onto the overused list), but I'd love to hear everyone else's ideas. Thanks!
This is another one of my faves that I think would be perfect for P/I (it's a little softer than the one I posted earlier), but I can almost hear the Disney references that would come up if they used it.
Perhaps a classic? A little sleepy for a FD I think though.
I'd still love to see them do this though.
Can you tell that off season boredom is starting to kick in?
Just heard this and fell in love...
Yes, I realize that I have a very odd taste in music.
And the hits just keep on coming. According to the revised ISU standings, P/I have dropped out of the top 24 in the world (hard to gain points when you essentially don't compete for two seasons). I believe that this means that they are no longer guaranteed a grand prix spot in the fall, but that Skate Canada can choose to give them a spot at Skate Canada in November. Can anyone confirm/deny?
That's my understanding -- they should still be eligible for a host pick. I'm also unsure on where they might place on a substitutes list (insofar as one or two of the teams ahead of them already have split or retired, I think, which moves them up the rankings a smidge).
I just hope they get that host pick and that it doesn't fall to Gilles & Poirier (though it's possible they could already be eligible for assignments given Paul's record with Vanessa?). I also hope Skate Canada finally assigns them to a Senior B to boost their points -- though they're going to need to maintain their health in the off-season for that to matter, too.
I do wonder if we won't be seeing some changes for them this summer, though, which might be just what they need.
I hope they get SC. It would really be awful to see them miss the GP season altogether, not to mention what it might do to their confidence. I agree, senior B events would be a very, very good idea for these two.
I really love this team, but after seeing Skate Canada's very transparent politiking for Gilles/Poirier at Canadians, I wonder if there are any changes P/I could make that would counterbalance Skate Canada's obvious preference for G/P.
Assuming the rules don't change, P/I aren't guaranteed a spot, being neither in the top 24 SB or WS. They could get a host spot from Skate Canada. They could get a spot as a top 75 SB team, once all teams guaranteed their one or two get theirs, and they'd be at the bottom of the alternates list, but the smaller fields, plus the "split couples" rule have had their greatest impacts on the top 75, since at least last year, as in the past few years, almost every team guaranteed one has gotten two in the initial selection, and the alternates process has pretty much eliminated selections very far from the list. The caveat is that host nations have some negotiating power that others don't.
R/H missed both top 12 at Worlds and top 24 SB by one spot, but they're in Top 24 WS (21), and are guaranteed one and probably will get two in the initial selection. Gilles/Poirier will be at the top of the alternates list -- I can't think of any potential "comeback" teams who have higher priority -- if they don't get Skate Canada, although that's not likely.
I think that Gilles/Poirier will likely get a host spot at Skate Canada, plus they will probably pick up a second assignment from being at the top of the alternates list, due to Paul's "split couple" status. (Exactly like Dube/Wolfe last year). But we'll see. I do hope that P/I can get out on the GP circuit.
Good point, maggylyn...Canadians this year really made me worry for P&I. And I agree with others, senior Bs would be very beneficial to this team.
I wish them a restful and healthy off-season.
Another factor to consider is whether the top 2 Canadian teams, Virtue&Moir, Weaver&Poje, opt to compete in 3 Grand Prix events. The top 6 ranked teams have that opportunity, and with only 8 places available per event, these two teams could occupy 6 spots in total which would further limit spaces available for teams on the "bubble" I would bet Weaver&Poje will compete at 3 events. They were the only team to do so last season. Unclear to me whether this influences whether other skaters from the same country can also compete.
leapfrog'...I'm far from the definitive voice on this , but no , I don't think so. I believe the host country must choose the allowed # of couples from the each category first, plus their extra host pick. If someone doesn't accept or withdraws , they have to try to fill that spot with a skater from the same category first. If there are none , then they can move down to the next category ,etc.
I don't think SC would be happy if neither V/M nor W/P wanted to do Skate Canada...
So senior B's are a must for them , otherwise , there's a good chance they won't be seen at all.
(sigh) I'm wishing them a decisive and productive off season..( rest , schmest !)
I don't want to panic, but I wish P/I could go immediately to one of the Detroit schools , that way, when they go to a Senior B , we know they would be taken very seriously from the outset...( in Canada, as well)
ITA with this. I think Detroit would be the best spot for them to go, though I think Zoueva/Shpilband and Carmelengo/Krylova are all fabulous, so I have no preference as to which school they would choose. Normally, I would worry about them being ignored at clubs with so many elite teams, but that doesn't seem to be an issue for the teams at either school, so it woudl seem that these coaches have found a way to avoid that problem. I have nothing against Davis Islam (quite the contrary...I think he has done a fabulous job with them in all aspects of their traning), but I think that traning in isolation might really hurt them. Coming back from a hard season, I think they could really use the motivation boost that traning with the best teams in the world would give. Regardless, I adore them and can't wait to see what they come up with for the new season.
oubik posted this in the 2012-13 GP thread.
Last year, W/P and P/B were signed up for three GP events. P/B had to withdraw from one, because he was ill, and any non-host pick substitutes are taken from the alternates list.
Top 75 is so far down the alternates list as to be unlikely, but there is a better chance for Top 75 in the initial selection, and there will be two more slots this year than last, since no team will be able to do three.
Thanks kwanfan ( and oubik )..I really didn't like that 3 spots business ( especially with the shortened fields ).
But I still can't help thinking , considering that this season was really a write off for P/I , the sooner a move is made, the better. ( For me, too, this is not a really negative comment on David Islam ) It's just that careers are short. Even if , all things being equal, a team has good skills and material comparable to their national competitors.. The sad truth is, we know from the results at Canadians that all things are not equal in Canada...(to our shame ).
I think that their talent would interest either Detroit club , but whether either one would have room on their rosters at this stage , I don't know.
I do feel that at an international event where there might be a great number of couples, anyone coming from either of those schools would be paid attention to.
ETA : On a lighter note, skatingfan04, how would a skating version of this, strike you ? ( ignore the one awkward lift. I've seen another girl execute it better, but the film quality wasn't as good )...
I believe S&Z have space, because they have been looking for junior teams.
Here's a list of dance teams who didn't finish top 12 at Worlds, but are guaranteed one spot for finishing top 24 on World Rankings and/or top 24 on the Seasons Best list:
CARRON / JONES FRA
PAPADAKIS / CIZERON FRA
PUSHKASH / GUERREIRO RUS
* SINITSINA / ZHIGANSHIN RUS
* STEPANOVA / BUKIN RUS
* YANOVSKAYA / MOZGOV RUS
RALPH / HILL CAN
ORFORD / WILLIAMS CAN
CHOCK / BATES USA
* ALDRIDGE / EATON USA
YU / WANG CHN
COOMES / BUCKLAND GBR#
TOBIAS / STAGNIUNAS LTU#
GUIGNARD / FABBRI ITA#
ALESSANDRINI / VATURI ITA#
ZLOBINA / SITNIKOV AZE#
That's 16 teams; four of these (*) may or may not stay JGP.
There are 48 GP slots available.
24 of these automatically go to the 6 seeds and 7-12 placers at Worlds. Each host reserves 3 spots for host picks (which are done first in the selection process).
That leaves 6 spots (or one for each host), available after top 12 Worlds and host picks. Five of those have to go to the teams who do not come from host countries (#).
It appears that if all the guarantees are to be filled, host picks may have to be used to satisfy some of them. It also doesn't seem likely that many of the guaranteed teams will get two events.
If a team isn't on the guarantee list and is not in a top alternate position, it's unlikely that they will get any GP event at all.
Gorgeous <3. Thanks SO much! This was exactly the type of thing I was trying to get at. I Love it!
Last season in dance,
In the Top 12 at Worlds, there were two splits (C/P and C/Z); they got one of those spots back from the alternates list (for Chock). (Two more alternate slots came from the S/B split.)
In the Top 24 SB and/or Top 24 WS, there were two retirements (K/K and F/S) before GP selection and one Jr. Team
In the Top 24 SB, there were nine active senior teams guaranteed one: two received two on initial selection (M/K [non-host] and R/T [one host]), two received one on initial selection and then a TBD host (P/G, R/R), two got one and then split/retired (H/Z [would have been top for a subs pick] and M/N), two got one and then an alternates pick (P/I and T/S). Lichtman/Copely were the only 13-24 SB team competing last season with one There was no team that got one that was only a host pick.
In the Top 24 WS, but not Top 24 SB, H/Z got one and then a TBD host pick.
In the Top 75, Cannuscio/Lorello were assigned a TBD host pick to SA, and Kriengkrairut/Giulietti-Schmitt were the only team from the Top 75 to be assigned to a non-host pick.
Of those selected from the alternates list, two were Top 24 SB, and four were from the split couples list.
There were two split couples last year that got three assignments (one each for Samuelson and Bates from two seasons prior, one for Chock.)
Top 12 have no splits or retirements, at least so far.
Top 24 SB have five possible Jr. couples (Nakarova [b.1996]/Nikitin [b.1994] from UKR are also top 24 SB).
Top 24 WS but not Top 24 SB or Top 12 Worlds, guaranteed one are five this year vs. seven last year. (Yu/Wang will meet the GP minimum but just a few points, although they are ranked 20th in the WS).
At this point, it looks like Poirier will get one off the alternates list.* (If there was news of a Crone partnership, I missed it.)
There are two extra slots for dance teams this year, if teams (P/B and WP) can't be selected for three.
*This won't help anyone on the Top 75 SB list, but it could affect Skate Canada's selection strategy, since Orford/Williams and Ralph/Hill are already guaranteed one, and both would be close to the top of the alternates list, after split couples (only C/P, as far as I know), for a second. Harvey/Gagnon, who just eked out the GP minimum last fall, dropped another spot and seem to be off Skate Canada's radar, and Orford/Williams were skating juniors internationally. They're both lovely skaters -- he's my favorite of the Canadian male dancers -- but they're mismatched in size.
It's pretty much an impossible scenario for a non-host Top 75 skater to get a spot. It's not highly likely for a Top 75 host skater to get one, unless assigned, but it's not impossible, and the odds are better for P/I this year than last season, if Skate Canada doesn't select them for a host pick/TBD.
I think it's a dumb strategy to have W/P and V/M go up against each other at SC, and it certainly would be cheaper for both if they competed at the same event as P/B (splitting the coaches' costs), because as much as Skate Canada loves Gilles/Poirier, that's no guarantee that an international panel will feel the same way, and if I were Skate Canada, I would want to see how the international judges compare G/P and P/I in the same event and then to either I/K or C/L, not W/P.
Agreed. I don't think Skate Canada would assign both V/M and W/P to SC, and since V/M are the Canadian champions they will get a spot. This would leave room to assign both G/P and P/I at SC. W/P are guaranteed two assignments elsewhere, and Ralph/Hill and Orford/Williams at least one. Gilles/Poirier will probably end up with two assignments since they are at the top of the alternates list.
If I'm not mistaken, Harvey/Gagnon have retired (please correct me if someone knows otherwise).
It was posted as hearsay/unofficial info in the Canadian Dance thread: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3517397#post3517397
kwanfan1818, could you re-post your informative post in the 2012-13 Grand Prix Pre-announcement thread in GSD? I cross-posted euterpe's useful post over there yesterday.
Here's ticket info for the May 12th COS show in which Paul/Islam are scheduled to perform.
Separate names with a comma.