Alexander Zhulin: "Humility adorns"

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by quiqie, Mar 17, 2013.

  1. AYS

    AYS Cruder than you thought

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    Again, I don't know what really went on with Zhulin and I/K, but it is really common for skaters to feel they are not getting enough attention from coaches when the coach has multiple elite students, especially direct competitors. I've always been amazed we never had an inkling of that (to my knowledge) come out of Canton all those years. Even the "big split" doesn't seem to come down to that type of problem.
     
  2. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    In what way hasn't Zhulin moved on? His new students are now European champions and world bronze medalists. Bobrova/Soloviev, who IMO don't have a fraction of I/K's extraordinary natural talent and whom many people had written out three years ago as a team that would be passed by I/K as a matter of course!

    Zhulin was asked a question and he answered it pretty politely. He thinks if I/K hadn't left, they would be fighting for second place now. Surely he had a plan for them. He is an experienced coach as well as a legend of ice dance, so he is entitled to his opinion. Whatever he and his team were doing with them was working miracles and it is now working miracles with Bobrova and Soloviev, transformed beyond recognition. Nathalie and Fabian couldn't find words enough to praise him and when they looked for a new coach they said they needed a coach with whom they could continue with Zhulin's technique. You cannot argue with results.
     
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  3. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    His plans for I/k was seemingly to ignore them and have volkov do everything. So they left "zhulin" rather be treated like crap.
     
  4. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    Are you making this statement from your personal observation? Otherwise it is their word against his and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

    However, if it is true that only Volkov was working with them, then Volkov is a fantastic coach and I'm surprised that they left him. On the contrary, many top couples should go to Volkov.
     
  5. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Zhulin might be bitter but he's definitely right. To see a team as extraordinarily talented as I/K stall their progress and skate those godawful Morozov 'programs' is just painful.

    I'd hope what happened at Worlds would be a sort of a wake up call for them but knowing their situation, it probably won't.
     
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  6. aemeraldrainc

    aemeraldrainc Active Member

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    Thanks, Sylvia. Interesting.
     
  7. allezfred

    allezfred Prick Admin Staff Member

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    Well that seemed to work better than whoever whatever their current coach is doing. :shuffle:
     
  8. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Interviews when the with "coached" by zhulin was all volkov this and volkov that and when they left they said they wanted to be actually coached by a coach and not an assistant. There was no point in just staying on there when their results were bad and and their main person was just an assistant. If zhulin cares about coaching now that's different but I/k were not coached by him.
     
  9. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    They never almost won euros before this year.
     
  10. bek

    bek Guest

    Well the reigning champs were out. Lets not forget the team that "won" Euros was a team they beat a year before. I/k should be doing better than they are.
     
  11. TAHbKA

    TAHbKA Well-Known Member

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    And now they got what they wanted. All hte coach's attention. Ilinyh at least. And where exactly did that put them? Or, right, nowhere. Mission accomplished!
     
  12. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    The question is, did they stall their progress? At the Europeans they finished second, only 0.11 points below Bobrova-Soloviev (who finished 3rd at worlds) and easily beating Capellinni-Lannote (who finished 4th at worlds). So one can argue that the low results at worlds was one off, because of nerves or any other silly reason. Surely one bad competition doesn't indicate that a couple regressed?
     
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  13. zotza

    zotza Active Member

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    If it was another team no,not even B/S last year but I/K will be lynched for this. B/S won a medal with not even reaching their marks from Europeans,they completely messed up and still got huge PCS, so that says something.But them leaving Zhulin was a mistake,not coaching wise but PR wise.
    I guess if they survive this it will be for the best,but there so many people that don't want them to survive this. One competition was enough for these people.

    About Zhulin...from me no comment.I respect him as a skater and coach but doing this after these results is heartless. He's a 50 year old man talking about two kids that are practically teenagers.At least he should have shown some human feelings and concentrate on his success.But all he had to say about his couple was that they'd be 4th if the French were ok. I feel for B/S too, if someday they would try to leave him
     
  14. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    IMO Zhulin still loves I&K. :lol: He talks about them like an ex-lover. He can't stop saying how awful and lazy they are, but he sounds passionate, and the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference. ;) As much as he's said he'd never take them back, he knows how good they are and I bet he dreams about choreo for them. I notice he always says how much B&S love to work as opposed to how good they are. He appreciates it, but with the natural talent of I&K he could really realize his vision.

    If I&K could go to a good coach/drill sargent for a couple of years and straighten themselves out, I'd love to see Zhulin choreo for them again someday.

    ETA: I also thought it was a bit harsh to say B&S would've been 4th had P&B skated well. I think it's true, and he says that so they don't get ahead of themselves for next year. Maybe it would be better to say that in private, though.
     
  15. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Euro silver medal almost winning it. It can't be denied Morozov has been better for I/K than Volkov or "Zhulin"
     
  16. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Zhulin would have to show I/K he would actually be a coach to them.
     
  17. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I think he has changed. Again, using the romance analogy, it's like I&K were his first marriage when he cheated with side projects, but now he is totally faithful to the next wife, B&S. I haven't heard about him doing anything else. I don't think Averbukh did a show this season. Surely Zhulin won't participate in anything until after the Olympics, then he might slack off a bit. He seems completely devoted to B&S right now.

    Like I posted earlier, I wish this version of Zhulin worked with I&K. I know I&K share a lot of the blame, but not all of it. P&B did better under Zhulin because they were more mature. As a junior team transitioning to senior, I&K needed the full and undivided attention of their primary coach. Even teaching discipline is part of that. Unfortunately, they did not learn anything from that whole debacle. They should taken the attitude that we'll show everyone, and work 1000x harder with Morozov to show that Zhulin was wrong.
     
  18. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

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    If Zhulin was such an absentee coach, why does it appear that P&B have only positive things to say about him? P&B only left because Zhulin was only allowed to coach Russian skaters, right? It's not like P&B aren't afraid of speaking what they believe to be the truth.
     
  19. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    What were you two reading? He said they MIGHT have been fourth, not that they necessarily would have been fourth.
     
  20. elif

    elif Active Member

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    At Euro 2011 -Zhulin's coaching- they were 4th place behind P&B (injured), B&S (gold medalist) and Kerrs (retired). So I don't think its big achievement for Morozov.

    Piseev thinks that too.
    http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?87476-From-Russia-With-Love-Spring-into-Summer-2013&p=3877949&viewfull=1#post3877949
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2013
  21. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    Isn't it possible being different teams at different points in their careers, that P&B and I&K had different needs, which were fulfilled for one but not the other? The reason I tend to believe I&K is because Nikita was very specific at the time that he had to look things up for himself in the rulebook or watch on youtube. If he had just said "Zhulin ignored us!" it would be easier to write off. Perhaps P&B didn't need to look things up because they already knew more than I&K, or they did not mind, and even enjoyed, doing their own research. I know they like to be more active in their own choreography. Whatever work Volkov did with I&K apparently did not leave them fully understanding what they were doing, and if they needed that, the coach should have made sure that's what they got.

    IMO, it's totally possible for it to be the case that both the ideas that Zhulin didn't spend enough time with them and that they were lazy about training are true.

    Not a big difference, IMO. The point is he's leaving a door open for a healthy P&B to pass them, which I think would be better left to a private discussion with his pupils.
     
  22. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

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    That's an interesting perspective I did not consider, but didn't P&B go to Zhulin because they found that Zazoui was not giving them her fullest attention? Zazoui was instead more focused on Delobel/Schoenfelder, who was the French #1.
     
  23. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    Could be that was more code for DelSchoes getting the politik of being coaches top team. I can't say I'm too familiar with P&B's experience with Zazoui, though, so I can't comment further.
     
  24. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    He is right on the money on Virtue & Moir too.
     
  25. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    Because usually you speak nicely about your past coaches. There are a few exceptions, but most skaters have only good things to say about their previous coaches, and yet they left them...
     
  26. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't that their first senior season? I wonder how other couples place in their first senior season; surely 4th at the Europeans is not that bad!
     
  27. Fancypancy

    Fancypancy Member

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    Zhulin looks like Uncle Frester in that K/C. He did not age well :((
     
  28. babayaga

    babayaga Active Member

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    I felt P/B were quite sincerer when they repeatedly told the press that they liked everything about Zhulin as a coach and they would never left him if it was up to them. They didn't have to make such strong statements if it wasn't true, what they said went beyond standard PC comments after break-ups.

    Also, I/K didn't only complained about Zhulin not being there for them. One of the complaints that Nikita voiced that surprised me was that Zhulin did not allow Tarasova to work closely with them. He said TAT really wanted to be involved in their preparation, but Zhulin kept her at distance, but now after they left him she will be able to work with them. This made me suspicious that I/K could have been brainwashed, combined with how different P/B comments about him sounded.
     
  29. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    It was reported in Russian articles posted here that P/B had to leave Zhulin because of the Russian federation's policy of not giving ice time to foreign skaters and not allowing Russian coaches to work with them during the preparations for the Olympics. Morozov was the only coach who was allowed to keep a few foreign students.

    When they left, they told the press they were looking for a coach who would have Zhulin's technique and who would continue Zhulin's work. I don't think you can pay a bigger compliment to a coach.

    Apparently Zhulin brought in Maxim Staviyski to work with both I/K and P/B. What a terrific opportunity for them! It was really visible in Nikita's techniue actually. He started swinging from deep edge to deep edge with that beautiful knee action that only Maxim Staviyski had in his generation. Glad to read in the interview that TAHbKA translated, that Staviyski is now working with Bobrova/Soloviev as well. :)

    I believe this was a time at which TAT, as the consultant for the Russian team, was working at all camps and meddling in helping with everything from program choices to costumes. It wouldn't be surprising if Zhulin tried to keep her at arm's length because for I/K he was going for classy programs, pure presentation and understated costumes. TAT's philistine taste, for bombastic choreography and batsh*t crazy costume choices may not have suited his plans for I/K.

    Sorry, I know she is a great coach. :shuffle:
     
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  30. babayaga

    babayaga Active Member

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    Absolutely, she should not have been anywhere near them. Unfortunately, she has enough power to interfere from the outside and I suspect she was one of the people behind that coaching change :(