Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by oleada, Feb 9, 2011.
they dont have pro comps anymore
I'm impressed with the members who found these things out, too. I'm also separately impressed that it made an impact at all...I'd been following this thread but didn't have much to say because I'm cynical:
Furthermore, let's face it. The IOC needs money, and the ISU more desperately needs money, and China has it, as well as general political clout.
This has nothing to do with race. For example, there is no current evidence for the need to investigate the ages of Japanese or Asian-American skaters.
Gymnasts and skaters generally look younger than their peers because these sports (especially gymnastics) favor shorter, tinier bodies. Even "Western" 16-year old gymnasts look younger than other 16 year olds.
I don't understand what the issue is. It's a matter of efficiency - probe into the ages of those who look the youngest. Some may be caught, others may get a free pass. Partial justice is still better than no justice.
And anyway, it's not just about being younger than one is supposed to be. Other Chinese skaters, it turns out, may be older than they claim.
The Chinese federation made an annoucement today that after certain research both Dan Zhang and Hao Zhang's birthdates listed on ISU are proved to be true, they just submitted wrong info to http://www.sport.org.cn/ , as FSUers expected And many skaters claim that they had nothing to do with it and believe they'll be safe.
Well, I'm Chinese, but I really feel shame about this whole thing. It will almost kill me if ISU remove Cup of China as a punishment, but if it happens, it's what Chinese fed. deserves.
Here we go....typos and mistakes and a plethora of faked documentation is on the way. And they will get away with it and continue to do it.
The number of typos is just mind-boggling, no one would buy it. But I'm rather skeptical about the eventual outcome.
"I do have sympathy for the Chinese skaters though. You know they have little to no choice in what happens to them."
I am not sure if the skaters and their parents really had no choice. Afterall, if one gets OGM, he/she will be financially safe (or even better) for the rest of the life. And if one gets it at younger age, he/she has plenty of time to do other things, like going for a college degree. Most OGMs got one from top university.
"Ｔhats　what　is　so　hard　in　these　cases　now，because　 we only suspect girls who look "young via Western standards."
What I undersand is that someone found the data and brought up the issue, not the other way around.
"The Chinese federation made an annoucement today that after certain research both Dan Zhang and Hao Zhang's birthdates listed on ISU are proved to be true, they just submitted wrong info to http://www.sport.org.cn/ , as FSUers expected And many skaters claim that they had nothing to do with it and believe they'll be safe.
There will be some scapegoats for this data problem. Maybe some lower ranked staffs or IT guys.
Not a surprising news....it's a deja vu!
China's a country that's growing strong and sadly they want to be on top and control everything no matter what. Keeping a 'good image' is VERY important. Sadly the governement is controlling all this. From political matter to Sports...It's still very communiste.
Reminds me of that cute little girl who lip sang the national anthem at the opening of the Beijing Oly in 2008. The real owner of the voice was another little girl who was not pretty enough to appear in front of the crowd.
I feel sorry for chinese skaters.
Anyone should see it as suspicious that the dates at the website are "wrong" in a very peculiar way. In ISU bios "older" guys in pairs are listed as as junior-eligible, and the ages of the girls and pairs and single skaters are "increased". It's certainly not random. They can't simply brush it off and claim that a miscommunication occurred. (I use scare quotes deliberately as it is still only a suspicion).
(((cheriepopo))) I hope they don't remove the GP event - that would deter the growth of the sport in China and would punish innocent Chinese fans. Perhaps another form of "punishment" can be found if these allegations prove correct.
I am not sure that the ISU is savvy enough to actually see it that way.
All this just makes me angry. Just thinking how many girls really have to wait their turn (I agree with the age rules) and do so... E.g. Adelina looks really a lot more grown-up this season, if somebody had told me that she is 15/16 years old, I would have totally bought it. But she will have to wait two more years to go to Worlds.
Think of how many young girls were overtrained to perform at the level of skaters with more years of experience.
China has a deep bench for skating - while these elite skaters may have been found out, there must be more underage/overage skaters still in training who haven't debuted for the ISU.
As I have posted above, the punishment, if the allegations are proved correct, would be to bar China from sending skaters to international competitions at the junior and/or senior level, depending on the nature of the violation(s).
I was the one who first speculated in this thread about scrapping Cup of China or moving it either for a year or permanently. I think a permanent move is more likely if the allegations are not proved correct; it would be way of dealing with the situation if a one-year outright ban on Chinese skaters is impossible.
In some ways, it might be better for the Chinese Federation to admit any violations and to take its lumps. The consequences of not doing so could be much more severe in the long run.
(Are you paying attention, you lurkers from the Chinese Federation? )
Chinese fed ... Sheesh
ETA: Just checked out Sina news and comment columns ... apparently 90% of the Chinese posters don't believe in the fed either, as expected
So are Takahashi/Tran smacking their lips and rubbing their hands around now? If not they, then at least the Japan Skating Federation should be preparing a big floral bouquet for FSU! Kunichi-wa! Arigato!!!
Looking for the positive spin in all of this....
Could you post a link, please?
The Chinese skating governing body that allegedly changed the ages of these skaters is going to investigate itself?
Most likely they are going to investigate who spilled the beans punish them accordingly.
to FSUers who uncovered this. As always, this site is THE place to go for skating news. You guys make and break the news
In Chinese though ...
Oh my...now they're puting the dirt on their skaters's face.
I hope there could be another form of 'punishment' too, instead of removing CoC.
A journalist friends of mine was working on an article about this this afternoon, and she said sport.org was shut down for a while to delete/edit those info.
Someone purging, Lord, Kumbaya....
Why on earth would the ISU scrap the Cup of China? Doesn't the hosting nation foot the bill for putting the event on and covering all of the costs? I can't imagine there being many countries chomping at the bit to take on that expense in these times. Also at the time didn't the ISU go for China because of a more lucrative TV deal than the one being offered for the German GP? I would think that money would trump all to the ISU and right now China is likely to be more lucrative than any other country.
Also - the ISU slaps cheaters on the wrists - look at Balkov, Danilenko, Le Gougne, Gailhaguet....the idea that the ISU would suddenly grow a pair, or worse some real integrity P) is sadly laughable.
It's up there again today - a related story this time - which means that it's been a popular read:
I suspect that they'll conveniently find one or two of the non-elite skaters' birthdays wrong. That way they'll appear to have "investigated" while not hurting the chances of those who actually will win/previously won medals & titles.
Thanks I can read
ETA: Oh my, the comments are It seems to be common knowledge in China that athletes' ages are falsified right, left and center.
Has anybody done a similar analysis on the birthdates of skaters from, say, Singapore and Mexico (at 4Cs)? To be fair, somebody with lots of time on his or her hands must investigate the birthdates of each and every skater who has ever entered an ISU championship (always going by the age rules at different eras).
I have a hunch that the little Bulgarian gal at the 1999 Junior Worlds may have been under age!
Perhaps the Chinese are bigger threats? Or are we "in the service of humanity and sport"? If so, let's be "in the service" and confirm the birthdates and documentation of skaters from ALL countries.
When I think of all the US pairs teams who had to break up because he aged out of juniors, and she was too young for seniors... I mean seriously, if we could de-age our men, and up-age our girls, our pairs program could really improve.
Frau Muller, it's not that the Chinese are "bigger threats". It's that they've been caught before, so they're an appropriate target for such an investigation.
I live in Singapore. I can't be 100% sure, just 99,999%: It will never occur to any sports association here to falsify their athletes ages. The repercussions will be fast and severe.
And no one is threatened by Geng Bingwa anyway.
Go ahead and do this if you have the time, because I don't. The confirming of birthdates is/should be the ISU and IOC's jobs.
The chinese age discrepancy was only discovered when an "official" list of skaters' birthdates differed from the ISU bios. FSU posters were using what they believed was an "official" list from the Chinese Fed. to check which top finishers at Chinese Nationals would be eligible to go to Junior Worlds, 4CCs, etc.
I think most of us assume that a federation is telling the truth unless evidence exists that makes the reported birthdates suspect.
I understand and hear you. However, if the Chinese Skating Federation ends up having to pay in some way, then it would only be fair that an exactly-as-strict investigation take place on every single federation. It's only fair. Who knows - maybe this was done in the past by other countries? I remember that, in the 70s and 80s, we in the West had our suspicions about many of the "flat chested" Eastern European female skaters in senior championships (although age limits were lower then). Ditto in gymnastics - especially the Soviets & Romanians, I recall.