Age Discrepancies for Chinese Skaters

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by oleada, Feb 9, 2011.

  1. my little pony

    my little pony snarking for AZE

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    if I find a way to piss off the Chinese fed, can I come to Honolulu?
  2. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    as long as you bring the wine
  3. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

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    That depends, do they deliver wine in a box to Hawaii? :lol:
  4. ks777

    ks777 Well-Known Member

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    wow Oleada is famous!!
  5. my little pony

    my little pony snarking for AZE

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    it's not in a box, :yikes:
    it is in a bottle. a dozen bottles go into a box.
  6. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

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    I could have sworn I read the word "box" somewhere in one of the posts. :lol:
  7. benedict_david

    benedict_david New Member

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    About Zhang/Zhang's age, here's a piece of news in 2009 confirming that Hao Zhang was born in 1982:

    http://translate.google.com/transla...+%E6%96%87%E6%B1%87%E6%8A%A5&hl=en&prmd=ivnso


    The translation is bad, but I think it basically means that Hao Zhang is 5 years older than Dan Zhang, which happens to agree with the listed birthdays.




    Another piece of news found, which (seems to) say that Dan Zhang was 10 years old in 1998.(correct me if I'm wrong)
    http://translate.google.com/transla...&u=http://sports.qq.com/a/20060220/000861.htm
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2011
  8. equatorial

    equatorial New Member

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    Yes, it says Zhang Hao was born in 1982 and is more than 5 years older than Zhang Dan:eek:
  9. Yukari Lepisto

    Yukari Lepisto New Member

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    Well, that really explains why Dan Zhang was still growing and growing until almost two years ago... maybe they should be careful when talking about growth spurt to media... lol....
  10. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    Are you purposefully being obtuse or are you just very stupid?

    Ant
  11. equatorial

    equatorial New Member

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    The latter :saint:
  12. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    benedict_david :respec:
  13. VALuvsMKwan

    VALuvsMKwan Wandering Goy

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    Time to bring Markova back to skate to "Let My Oleada Go" (but be sure to share some of the boxed wine with her to get her in the proper voidy spirit first). :nopryde:
  14. Ozzisk8tr

    Ozzisk8tr Well-Known Member

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    As long as Markova hasn't finished all the vino first. She was off her head when she did that routine right, or was it just the choreographer? (Oleada come to Perth, I have a whole wine valley 10 minutes from me, and it's Summer here and we got some of the best beaches in the world).
  15. cheriepopo

    cheriepopo New Member

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    That's true. One of my journalist friends once mentioned Hao Zhang in her article as "5 years older than Dan", and she immdiately got a call from he Zhang after the article's out, he was simply mad at her because 'every journalist knows this but none has ever mentioned it in public, so how could you do it!?' So you can say this is a confirmation directly from he Zhang;)

    ETA - in China there's a saying "The most dangerous place is also the safest to hide", so, Oleada, come and visit me in China!!:cool::cool:
  16. Seregil

    Seregil New Member

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    Great idea! They'll never look for you there!
  17. ratatouille

    ratatouille New Member

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    The thing is that the chinese goverment makes fake ID....

    It's very normal there.
  18. let`s talk

    let`s talk Banned Member

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    So, that is just that? Chinese officials said "sorry, our staff made (so many) errors in paperwork," then they shut the list on their website and it is the end of story?

    It looks like we all with ISU and those international skaters who actually followed the rules, got f...ed up afterall.

    Is there any scientific ways to establish the age of a person, like they do it with DNA parental test? The paperwork like passports or birth certificates don't look promising. :confused:
  19. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    Maybe FSU can kidnap the skaters in question, cut off limbs and count the number of rings (like tree trunks)?

    I can't believe that so many people are happy at the prospect of medals being taken away from past winners. How sweet.
  20. dupagegal

    dupagegal New Member

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    The simple fact that the ISU does not place large penaltys or sanctions on China for skating is proof that there is way too much politics in this sport.
  21. rfisher

    rfisher Satisfied skating fan

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    Just to reply to those who've questioned if there is some biological way to determine exact age, the answer is no. You can only get a relative age by looking at bones or teeth. Relative being withing 4-5 years on young adults. It would require x-rays of joints which I doubt anybody would do and then it's you only get bone age which can vary from chronological age for a number of reasons. DNA or blood will not indicate age.
  22. let`s talk

    let`s talk Banned Member

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    Don't you care to consider the feelings of those skaters (and federations) who followed the rules?
  23. Ozzisk8tr

    Ozzisk8tr Well-Known Member

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    If nothing happens to punish the Chinese federation, I wonder if the judges marks will at upcoming competitions. I feel this thing will not blow over lightly. I do feel very sorry for the skaters however.
  24. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, I feel exactly opposite. They will get away with it, although it is so unfair to those who do follow the rules. :(
  25. bsfan

    bsfan New Member

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    PHP:
    Another piece of news foundwhich (seems tosay that Dan Zhang was 10 years old in 1998.(correct me if I'm wrong)
    http://translate.google.com/translat...0%2F000861.htm

    Quote:
    In 1998, 10-year-old Yao Bin Zhang Dan was the case, to Beijing. Participate in national team training, she became the youngest national team player.  

    Does this indicate that Yao Bin is AT LEAST among those which change the age?

    In general, Chinese men have smaller build compared to western competitors. But Chinese women don't have such a big difference. This is the only thing that make me respect Shen/Zhao. They have great elements with not that big of size difference. And Pan/Tong (she is so thin). Maybe those people figured out they should find an easier way to overcome this problem.
  26. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    I can't believe some are upset at the prospect of the medals finally going to the ones who actually earned it without cheating!
  27. FigureSpins

    FigureSpins New Member

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    Easier doesn't make it right. If their genetics make them smaller, I don't think that justifies cheating. There are still tall boys/men and petite girls/women in China, even by western standards. They would have to manage the pairings, as the USSR did for years, but lying about athletes ages just to win a competition is wrong. Period.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2011
  28. Seregil

    Seregil New Member

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    That hasn't been the case in gymnastics, so I doubt it will be in skating.
  29. nlyoung

    nlyoung Active Member

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    At the very least, I hope this forces them to declare ages earlier so that there is a record, i.e. long before skaters hit the international scene. This will make it far more difficult to cheat!
  30. 93ning

    93ning New Member

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    i dont know very clearly about zhangdan

    but i just can tell u zhanghao and Hancong' age is right

    im sorry i cant tell u the reason
    but i can sure HANcong is 18 in 2010
    and he studying in school ,every years school name list can tell u.

    i dont know yu/jin very clearly too
    just look.....
    she looks too old if she really is a 13/12years old
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2011
  31. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    Jeez, you don't have to scream (bold lettering); we hear you. I just feel sorry for talented skaters like Sui/Han who live in an authoritarian regime and most likely did not make decisions to cheat on their own...and most likely did not even know about the bloody age rules themselves. In such societies, federation officials, coaches and others usually make decisions. For poor decisions, talented individuals will probably never be given a fair shake from ISU judging panels ever again. I would not want to be the FSUer whose innocent and well-meaning analysis led to the end of promising careers.
  32. bsfan

    bsfan New Member

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    Then why the data from official site are different? Some Chinese media seem to indicate that the American media raised the issue. Wasn't it caused by data mis-match btw Chinese official site and ISU?
  33. 93ning

    93ning New Member

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    im not work in the office ,so i dont know
    i just said whose age that i know and i can sure.

    Han cong and Zhanghao
  34. brina

    brina Well-Known Member

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    :rolleyes: I think it's silly that you're arguing for the Chinese skaters for the sake of fairness. Sure, it isn't fair for them if it wasn't their decision, but it is much more unfair for everyone if they are not competing by the rules. Whether or not a poster on this board is involved in the process of uncovering any untruths (which I doubt will actually lead to anything for the reasons mentioned before), it is ultimately more fair for everyone involved in the sport if the rules are followed consistently.

    EDIT: I would also like to add that while I think punishment should take place if the rules are not being followed, I hope judging panels don't let their opinions of this alter their judging. That is the last thing that would make the sport look objective.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2011
    Ozzisk8tr and (deleted member) like this.
  35. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

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    Do you feel equally bad for the folks who work in the drug labs that found drug residues in many cycling and track & field athletes -- some of whom were forced then to give back Olympic, World, and Tour de France medals? :confused:

    There is every appearance that birth dates have been fudged for a number of Chinese skaters -- notice that the girls are all entered as older, while the boys are entered as younger.

    I do not see this as any different from an athlete taking performance enhancing drugs with the concurrence and support of their federation or coaches. (And different than the German girls who were fed "vitamins".) If they won medals under false pretenses, there should be punishment including withdrawal of medals and withdrawal of entries falsely earned, and if the evidence indicates systematic problems, then the Chinese program should get the death penalty for at least a year, just like N. Korea got in gymnastics.
  36. midori

    midori Well-Known Member

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    bsfan, the spreadsheet was huge. It is natural to have many errors. You know when federations, any skating federations in the world, publish big documents they usually contain some errors.

    I am not talking about if there were cheats or not. I am saying that the data highly likely has some honest errors, with or without cheated ones.

    ETA: 93ning, thank you for your post about Han cong and Zhang Hao!
  37. benedict_david

    benedict_david New Member

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    Then in those errors, girls happen to have earlier birthdays and guys happen to have later birthdays. And we have found other resources which HAPPEN to agree with those errors (multiple documents, news). What a COINCEDENCE!:rolleyes:
  38. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    Bold isn't screaming, caps is; bold is being emphatic.

    You can let "innocent" skaters off the hook all you want, maybe at eight years old but at 13 and 15? No way. When they stare up at that flag on the top of that podium knowing that they are there because they didn't tell the truth is WRONG (now I'm screaming), my coach made me do it, my mom, my fed...:blah: they shouldn't be a bit surprised someone got suspicious and shouldn't be surprised if they are stripped of their medals and records and live with that shame for the rest of their career. They have what is coming if they are guilty.

    I feel most sorry for the skaters who got that precious moment of getting that medal stolen by a cheater. Finally getting it 10 years later or whatever is not the same thing.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2011
  39. taf2002

    taf2002 Well-Known Member

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  40. midori

    midori Well-Known Member

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    I wish you read the latter half of my post.

    Also I did not know you have found any other resources of multiple documents and news about Cong Han's age.
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