Age Discrepancies for Chinese Skaters

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by oleada, Feb 9, 2011.

  1. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    So, this was originally posted in the Entries thread in the 4CC Forum, but IMO, it warrants its own thread and further discussion.

    This was posted in the 4CC Entries thread: Chinese Athlete Ages (document from the Chinese Olympic Committee website)

    The following birth dates do not match up with what is posted on the athletes ISU Bios.

    Wenjing Sui:
    ISU Birthdate: 18.07.1995 (15)
    Listed Birthdate: 07.05.1997 (13)

    Cong Han
    ISU Birthdate: 06.08.1992 (18)
    Listed Birthdate: 3.1989 (21)

    Bingwa Geng
    ISU Birthdate: 03.01.1994 (17)
    Listed Birthdate: 03.03.1995 (15)

    Yu Gao
    ISU Birthdate: 10.07.1992 (18)
    Listed Birthdate: 10.07.1988 (22)

    HisWeirness found this at a Chinese Skating forum (all links/info reposted with her permission):

    Geng's Japanese Wikipedia article also lists her birth year as 1995.

    She also found the following links at that same website:

    http://images.sport.org.cn/File/2007/10/29/1531155992.xls
    images.sport.org.cn/File/2009/09/22/1505096846.doc
    images.sport.org.cn/File/2007/07/30/1828025124.xls

    Now, those links have even more info:

    Dan Zhang:
    ISU Birthdate: 04.10.1985 (25)
    Listed Birthdate: 04.10.1987 (23)

    Hao Zhang:
    ISU Birthdate: 06.07.1984 (26)
    Listed Birthdate: 06.02.1982 (29)

    Xiaoyu Yu
    ISU Birthdate: 02.01.1996 (14)
    Listed Birthdate: 02.01.1998 (12)

    Yang Jin
    ISU Birthdate: 16.05.1994 (16)
    Listed Birthdate: 16.05.1989 (21)

    Binshu Xu
    ISU Birthdate: 28.07.1988 (22)
    Listed Birthdate: 29.07.1990 (20)

    So, if these birthdates are correct:
    - Sui was too young to compete as a junior last year and too young to be on the SGP this year
    - Han was not age eligible to compete in the JGP this year
    - Gao was not age eligible to compete in the JGP this year
    - Geng was too young for 2008 Junior Worlds
    - Dan Zhang was too young to compete in the JGP and Junior Worlds in 1999/2000 and too young to compete at the Olympics, Worlds and 4CC in 2002.
    - Binshu Xu was too young to compete as a junior in the 2002/2003 season
    - Xiaoyu Yu was too young for 2010 Junior Worlds (illegal entry) and is too young to compete internationally as a junior in the 2010/2011 season.

    So yeah. Feel free to post any other info you might have or find. Or point out any mistakes I made.

    Not suprising, but disappointing and I'm pissed. :mad:

    ETA: Added info found by jlai on Yu/Jin

    ETA: Added Sylvia's info on BinShu Xu
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2011
  2. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for starting this thread, Oleada. More people need to know about this consistent rule breaking! It is atrocious.
     
  3. letsskate

    letsskate New Member

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    wow, thanks for posting!! why am i not surprised.... :rolleyes:

    The sad thing is rarely do the chinese get punished for it, their gymnastic team still hasn't got punished for it for the age fraud for 2008 beijing olympics..
     
  4. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it doesn't matter what date is on the passport and ID if it's consistent. Even if that date is fake. :mad:
     
  5. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    This is so ridiculous. I know you can't blame the skaters, but how do you not punish the Chinese fed?
     
  6. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

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    I hope someone has grabbed all the possible screen captures. China has made these "go away" before.
     
  7. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    :sekret:
     
  8. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    I have, and I know oleada has as well. We really ought to email the ISU about this...
     
  9. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    Those documents linked by oleada are all from http://www.sport.org.cn/ (the "Chinese Olympic Committee official website," according to Google translate).

    Obviously, the Chinese federation can control all official documents (passports, birth certificates, etc.) that are presented to the ISU on behalf of their skaters, which makes it very difficult for anything to be either proven or done about these age/birthdate discrepancies, unfortunately.

    However...

    NBC Sports article (April 28, 2010): China Punished For Using 14-Year-Old Gymnast; Country stripped of team bronze from 2000 Sydney Olympics
    Relevant excerpts:
     
    oleada and (deleted member) like this.
  10. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    Of course, it is likely we will get nowhere with the ISU but it certainly is worth trying...exposing these docs. might help. I have the site saved as well..just in case it decides to "disappear." I'm all for confronting the ISU if others want to join me. This type of cheating cannot be tolerated. Japan couldn't send Asada to Torino nor could Korea send Kim. The United States couldn't send their best team to 08 Worlds either, but all of these nations had to follow the rules. China shouldn't be an exception.
     
  11. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    I used the contact form on the ISU's website with a link last night. Hopefully they read their mail. :p
    Others should contact them too, especially if you have connections :sekret:
     
  12. MikiAndoFan#1

    MikiAndoFan#1 Well-Known Member

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    This is an outrage. Situations like these shouldn't be allowed. :mad: Something must be done.
     
  13. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    At the 2010 World Junior Figure Skating Championships three Chinese pairs teams competed when only 2 were eligible. No one thought to check until after the competition. Of course people here noted it. In Gynastics ALL North Korean athletes were banned from worlds because of age inconsistency. Imagine if ALL Chines skaters were banned from 2011 worlds or 2012 worlds! That would never happen probably.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2011
  14. Gil-Galad

    Gil-Galad Well-Known Member

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    I know that they know that they can get away with it - but this carelessness is simply disappointing. If you cheat, at least do it with style and care, like a good Slytherin - you just don't leave tons of documents all over the Internet that can provoke a discussion full of :mad: and :drama:. It's just not good for our nerves.
     
  15. HisWeirness

    HisWeirness FREE LYUBOV

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  16. Squibble

    Squibble New Member

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    I don't know about that, and the penalty is much more severe:

    ISU Rule 108(4)

    :yikes:

    "International Competitions" would include Cup of China (which I suppose might be scrapped or replaced for a year).

    :watch:
     
  17. letsskate

    letsskate New Member

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    In a way, i feel like the IOC dare not do much to the Chinese, so they just punished the north koreans.. not that the north koreans were innocent.. cause after all, China's becoming quite strong right now..

    but seriously?? why it's ALWAYS CHINA?!?! something's gotta be done!
     
  18. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

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    Imagine that, the Chinese cheating AGAIN. It will never end until very STRICT action is taken.
     
  19. DinDonShamu

    DinDonShamu New Member

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    I can't understand the benefit of reporting false ages. Their ladies are not medal contenders in major ISU championships, and the age descrepancies between their pair skaters (assuming they are true) certainly aren't helping them. Look at how Dan Zhang outgrew her partner, and how Wenjing Sui might as well, in a year or two, and how they reap most of their successes from the "oldies." (Now don't tell me Xue Shen is 16 and Qing Pang 15 ... I'd find it hard pressed to buy into that :shuffle:)
     
  20. Squibble

    Squibble New Member

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    I wonder if this explains why China sent its notorious (and illegal) third pairs entry, Yu Xiaoyu and Jin Yang, to Junior Worlds last year, i.e., someone thought that if Sui and Han were ever caught out, Yu and Jin would deemed to be the proper entry. Of course, it shouldn't work that way, but the ISU being the ISU, who knows? :shuffle:
     
  21. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    Maybe they thought the ladies would be a bigger deal than they ended up being? I remember a thread on GoldenSkate in January of 2008 hyping Bingwa Geng and saying how'd great she'd do in the future, etc, but she wasn't old enough for junior competitions yet. Surprise, surprise, she showed up Junior Worlds that year a couple of months later.

    And...why wait to earn medals later when you can earn them now?
     
  22. a56

    a56 New Member

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    It's repulsive. Nobody ever punishes China because they're just too big and powerful, and there is too much money at stake. So they look the other way whenever China's involved. I bet you that the ISU will do nothing regarding this (if true). As one of the six countries that hosts the Senior Grand Prix and presumably with a lot of cash to spend, the ISU will pretend like nothing's wrong. If it's some small federation, it's the opposite. Serbia was suspended (and I believe recently readmitted) from ISU membership because it did not fulfill the rules regarding sufficient participation in events or something to that effect.
     
  23. Yukari Lepisto

    Yukari Lepisto Active Member

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    This is another display of arrogance from China.
    We are China. we can do whatever we want. Rules are just suggestions for us. And if anyone complains, we just give them money to shut up.

    I also blame the Chinese skaters. They know their own age. They know the rules. But they go along with Chinese fed cheating and pretend everything is ok. I guess fame and success is more important to them than honor and fair play.
     
  24. Squibble

    Squibble New Member

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    Oh, right. A twelve-year-old Chinese girl from a humble background is going to know the ISU's age rules and refuse to go to international competitions (and risk getting sent back home forever). :rolleyes:
     
  25. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    Ironically, I can't find any info on these two.

    Yeah, I don't blame the skaters either. But I do think the Chinese fed needs to be taken down a peg or a twenty.
     
  26. Yukari Lepisto

    Yukari Lepisto Active Member

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    If Chinese fed official tells you they are going to change your birth date, wouldn't you get suspicious?

    And please don't give me that poor kid from humble background blah blah. :violin:
    These kids, their parents, and the Chinese federation know every nuance of ISU or IOC rules. And with that knowledge, they can manipulate it or flangrantly cheat because they can count on poor saps like you to take pity on their "humble" background.
    And if that don't work, there is always the Chinese Yuan to shut the critics.
     
  27. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Found Yu Xiao Yu's bdate 1998/01/02
    Jin Yang 1989/05/16

    So they would be too old for junior world last year

    For Pete's sake, even in the US, people don't hold 12 or 13 year olds accountable the way they do adults. :rolleyes:

    I myself can understand a child's confusion over age issues because my mom never explained the difference between counting by lunar year vs counting by "Sai lek" and my parents also didn't know their own birthdate and made one up for ID purposes.

    At this point we only know age discrepancies at the federation level.
     
  28. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    No, Yang would be eligible for JW last year, but can't this year. But she would be too young. In fact, she still is.

    Where did you find it? I want to add this to the first post.

    ETA: Ok, I found them. :lol:
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2011
  29. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Last edited: Feb 9, 2011
  30. stjeaskategym

    stjeaskategym Well-Known Member

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    If they were going to change her age, why would they make Wenjing Sui miss the cutoff date by 18 days? :lol: I guess even China thinks it would be too ridiculous to have a 13 yr old at Sr Worlds. :mad: :mad: :mad: