Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Yazmeen, Mar 6, 2014.
The technical scoring was not remotedly right either. Sotnikova was overscored about an average of +1 GOE per element, and Kim purposely underscored by an average of +1 per element. Think how many points difference that already makes. Then Sotnikova should have gotten edge calls on both lutzes, a downgrade on her triple lutz-triple toe at the end, and not been given level 4 footwork sequences while Kim should have. Sotnikova would already be thrashed by Kostner and Kim just changing the TES fairly, and the scary thing if we haven't even started on PCS. Would Sotnikova even keep her bronze once we get into that?
And you're an international technical specialist with all of the necessary qualifications, are you?
Kim did not skate her best that night - there were a couple of landings that were a bit wobbly. She skated with no passion, no emotion, like she was just going through the motions (PCS hit). GET OVER IT.
And yes, okay, they were in Russia, and there was a bit of a bump up for the home skaters. THE SAME THING HAPPENS IN JAPAN, USA, CANADA, EVERYWHERE, and I don't see endless threads whinging about that.
You missed all the about Chanflation?
The "huge swell of negativity" is only happening on boards like this & only from biased posters. Who won the ladies OGM is a non-story for most of the world. And if you think the Russian Fed (or any fed for that matter) who would promote an up-and-coming skater over their own OGM, then you must not know much about skating politics.
Yes, but that happens on every continent.
BTW, for those who are saying Ashley skated well & deserved better than 7th, yes, she skated well for her. But just because she didn't fall down doesn't mean she didn't have any technical flaws. I thought the placement of the top 10 ladies were correct except for Julia Lip who was boosted in both the short & long.
Well, I was very excited to see Adelina come out with such energy and excitement, explosive jumps and amazing confidence and consistency for her, to simply light up the sp. I admire Yu Na and Mao for many reasons, but I was not looking forward to another Olympic showdown between them. They are both talented and wonderful veterans, but Yu Na seemed to be just going thru the motions, without any of the determined fire she displayed at last year's Worlds. Mao has been receiving huge scores for some flawed technique in programs for the last two seasons, so unfortunately it all caught up with her in Sochi. It was sad to see her falter so badly in the sp, but she responded like a determined champion in the fp. I rooted for Mao in Vancouver, but not as much recently. Still I admire her courage and her heart.
Carolina was underscored on PCS in the team event, but a bit of nerves had her tight on some of her jumps during singles fp, so it was a victory for her to medal especially without a program chock full of difficult jump technique. When it comes to class, grace, beauty, maturity and superbly delivered choreography, of course Carolina is golden. Too bad Olympics didn't take place in Italy, eh?
But, oh well, since it was obvious the home team wanted to push thru not just for the podium, but for gold for a Russian lady, I was relieved that it was the more talented Sotnikova rather than the over-hyped Julia L. Possibly, Radionova will be better than both Adelina and Julia, if she is given the chance to develop into a complete skater.
Most of all, Ashley needed to believe in herself more this season and have a stronger fp. Apparently she lost some confidence with Nicks retiring, and the break with Mills did not help matters. Overall, Ashley handled those challenges well, and she had a good GP season but seemed to be losing ground with her confidence as the season progressed, while Gracie was being groomed to shine.
We will see if Adelina turns into Elena Davidova (testing skating fans' knowledge of Gymnastics here ) - Olympic Champ, but nothing else to follow.
Davydova was exquisite. Adelina is far from.
I was not a big fan of Rachael Flatt, and I felt USFS often over-rewarded her which came back to bite all involved eventually. But also pretty cruel how they completely dropped Rachael after the infamous Worlds debacle.
Doesn't really matter how fans want it 're our faves. When it comes to fs, our hearts will be broken time and time again. The inherent politics and uneven and often unfair scoring in fs is legendary. We could talk for days about the peculiar scoring in ladies event at U.S. Nats, this year and last, but let's not. Suffice to say, they score how they will anyway, so why not give better and more deserving PCS to an internationally recognized skater who is expected and indeed preferred to make the team. I think Polina's PCS were overdone, and it was obvious at least IMO that US powers that be were more interested in simply putting some distance in the sp between Gracie and Ashley in particular and rest of the field in general than they were in actually rewarding Mirai, who they viciously disregarded post-event.
Maybe fans can never have it both ways, but heck, TPTB sure can. In fact they can have it six ways to Sunday and spin results till they're set in stone.
I am a fan of Ashley and Gracie, BTW. Indeed, I enjoyed watching all the U.S. ladies this season.
Davydova won an event medal on all of bars, beam, and floor at the 80 Games or 81 Worlds, and won another AA medal at the 81 Worlds, so I wouldnt say she followed with nothing. Although I hope I am wrong my best guess on Sotnikova is she will truly pan out as a 1 hit wonder, and would be lucky to have a Davydova like follow up to her big win.
With all due respect you must be living under a rock or in a coma if you really believe this (and I say that as someone who doesnt even agree with the blown out controversy). It is funny you are the same poster who called Poetzsch-Fratianne, Kerrigan vs Baiul in 94, Lipinski winning in 98, and Hughes in 2002 as major controversies and insisted I was wrong when I grouped all those as minor or merely debated decisions. Do you honestly believe those are more talked about in "most of the world" than this. Absolute delusion to the highest order if you actually do.
What landings were wobbly? The only slight error I saw was the scratchy, toe-picky landing on her second triple Lutz.
Yikes, I'm afraid Adelina v. Yuna is the new Oksana v. Nancy. Let's. Rehash. Every. Single. Biased. Point. Over. And. Over.
Anyways, 99.9% of the world doesn't care who won the ladies OGM. Maybe South Korea, FSU, and Ashley Wagner. That's all.
I have a better idea - if they were so bent on AW on the team, then nominate her BEFORE the event based on the strength of her season up to that point. Then judge Nationals by what is actually put out on the ice. I give them credit for not holding Wagner up because they easily could have done. (Not that there wouldn't have been an outcry, of course - see 2013.)
Anyway, no use rehashing that thing again. What's done is done, and hopefully they can make it clearer for everyone moving forward.
Gee, it doesn't read as respect.
As you know, when I mentioned those other controversies I was speaking of controversies within the skating community. The poster I was answering was acting like the big buzz in world news is still Adelina's win. It's been at least 2 weeks since I've seen any of the Oly skating news mentioned anywhere except skating boards. So I guess I've been living under a rock. When I open my browser or pick up a newspaper I don't see one word about skating. I do see news about Ukraine & about the missing Malaysia plane. I don't see "a huge swell of negativity". The closest thing I've seen about skating news is the fact that Meryl & Charlie are going to be on Dancing With The Stars.
BTW I still believe that who won the ladies OGM is a non-story for most of the world. I don't know one person in RL who gives a sh**.
I happen to love both of Adelina's programs, especially her LP. To each his own.
You know best of course with that crystal ball. Melodramatic much?
Davidova won AA bronze at Worlds the year after the Moscow Games. Top 3 after the Olympics is nothing to sneeze at.
even if an american is involved with this whole ogm thingy.. no one really gives a crap about figure skating.. if you ask anyone outside of the fs community about the whole ogm judging they will say.. "hmmm.. what else is new?"
I don't see the similarity. Oksana versus Nancy is athletic versus artistic - and wooden versus charming, in this case - which it pretty much always come down to in these debates. The argument is always that the person/team with lesser technical content was more artistic or had a more complicated program.
Adelina v. Yuna does not come down to that. Adelina's tech base was less than 2 points above Yuna's and she had a step-out. Yuna is technically textbook perfect. Her spins are not the best, perhaps not as good as Adelina's, but her landings are usually a thing of beauty. Adelina's landings were not quite so fluid.
And there really isn't much of a case to be made that Adelina is more artistic than Yuna. Yes, she was more emotionally expressive than Yuna and skated with more attack. But those two qualities do not equal artistic superiority. Mae Berenice skated with amazing attack and emotional expression too. So did the Italian lady. So did Ryan Bradley when he (questionably, in the minds of many) won Nationals.
Although Yuna is not emotionally expressive, she has the natural gift of pure grace and is far more aesthetically appealing than Adelina. Her long limbs help, but body type does give skaters an advantage/disadvantage, like it or not.
If you watch her entire body when she skates and don't focus on her face, every movement is art on ice. She ticks off all the boxes. The only PCS box in contention is the Performance part of Performance/Execution.
I say this as one who was never a Yuna fan and did not want her to just show up and retake the Olympic title. But credit should be given where credit is due. I never cared for Sasha Cohen, either, but not a ladies competition goes by when I don't wish someone would do a spiral to rival Sasha's.
I'll admit, ladies is my least favorite discipline, so the Olympic result isn't nearly as scandalous to me as to some others. But...
Didn't Yuna have a pretty noticeable UR on her 2nd triple lutz, not to mention one less triple?
My comment was in response to misskarne, who said
Yes, I think at any competition other than the Olympics that lutz would have been marked <.
My bigger point was that Davidova popped up out of nowhere (she was only an alternate in '78 and '79 I think) to win the 1980 Olympic crown, and she won the big medal only once. Yes, she was 3rd in 1981 but retired after that. She still didn't win the big title in 1981.
Like Gabby Douglas, her only medal is the AA gold, the other two world and Olympic medal is from team event.
Davydova competed through 1981 worlds where she competed with a very sore neck injury. She finished third all around in a USSR sweep of the medals after falling on her beam dismount. She won the qualification round.
I guess that counts as "nothing".
Sorry I see other people already mentioned her post Olympic career. I tend to get very defensive where Davydova is concerned. Her contributions to the sport of gymnastics post retirement is unmeasurable and I wish she would get more positive recognition
One person's "wooden vs. charming" is another's "understated vs. cheesy."
Poor Gabby, she only won double Gold at age 16.
It is not just unsporting but beyond silly to try and discredit Gabby for her accomplishments in London.
What is it with people at this board who think "body of work" trumps amazing Olympic performances.
Mustafina got it right when she said "Gabby was the best and deserved to win the AA OGM."
Why belittle Gabby's great achievement? It's not like it was handed to her and in fact she had to outperform some great challengers.
Kind of tired of words like "energy", "spark", "grabbing the audience by the throat", "making a moment", (my personal favorite "tentative") blah, blah, blah..Stephanie Rosenthal made a moment at Nats in 06 and I didn't see her anywhere near the podium. I say do away with the second mark.It seems to mean nothing anyway.
Agreed. Yet, Sarah Hughes is constantly belittled for doing exactly the same thing.
That's the Sonia Bianchetti "You Know It When You See It" criteria.
Please see my post just above yours. You are putting words in my mouth. I never said 'nothing'. I'm not debating her innovation or what she brought to the sport. I just found the comparison striking.
That is true, but more for some than others. I happen to root for the underdog and find great performances can be inspiring .
I won't forget Adelina's great win anytime soon and I still watch Sarah's LP from SLC now and then. I also enjoyed Sarah's recaps on NBC sports and even though I like Sasha and Michelle better I have room for Sarah too.
You got me on Mr Puffy sleeves though.
Gabby is reportedly in training....just saying.
Last I saw she was going to be on some reality cooking show or whatever it was supposed to be. She has also been promoting her book, her TV movie, etc.
Who is her new coach and where is she training?
Gymnastics news and discussion thread: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?89295-Gymnastics-News-13
Here's Sotnikova's recent "Art on Ice" performance in Switzerland (March 2nd): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X82RdJhUk1A
Wait... you mean it wasn't?
N/M. wrong thread. Sorry~~
Of course rehashing changes nothing and points are moot at this point. Indeed both Gracie and Ashley were nominated before the U. S. Nationals event, but the judging as usual is never just based on what takes place on the ice. There were inconsistencies in the scoring across the board, starting with the extreme low-balling of Caroline Zhang, which then affected scoring of ladies who came directly after her who were expected to skate well but made glaring mistakes. One could argue the top four ladies' scores were fair in sp, but I would have had Gracie around 69 or 70, and Polina close behind Ashley with a score around 63+. Having more difficult technique should not automatically boost a skater's PCS marks. Even Polina was surprised at her score in the sp.
Ashley did not complete her 3/3 and was obviously tight going into it in sp at Nats, but otherwise skated very well and arguably could have been slightly ahead of Polina in sp based on overall maturity and delivering a more well-rounded program. I doubt that would have been cause for much controversy. Everyone in top four except Mirai fell in the fp, but granted Ashley's mistakes were greater there. However, I feel they gave Ashley a mountain to climb at home as the defending U.S. champion after she had a good sp skate.
When it comes to figure skating judging, I wouldn't keep my fingers crossed about anything being made clearer for anyone going forward.
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