Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by johndockley92, Mar 27, 2013.
Hey, heard Adam Rippon has a new program for Gardena. Anybody know what the music is?
Rippon revealed the choreographer but not the music (yet) in this reply to a fan on Twitter today: "I'm going to skate a new long program I had choreographed by Tom Dickson "
Oh hallelujah! Anything by Tom Dickson is bound to be wonderful, and with Adam skating to it ... sublime!
As per Tom's 2010 discussion with manleywoman, Tom will surely require Adam to be practicing figures that will help with the jumps and footwork. Tom Dickson is an unsung hero of this sport.
BTW, I recently saw this cute pic on Adam's Twitter of him with Aly Raisman and Gabby Douglas. I wonder if it was taken at a skating and gymnastics event?
I'm glad he is changing programs though, while I love his skating I really didn't understand the music for him. Go Adam!
^^ You mean last season's The Incredibles? It wasn't all that suited to Adam's style, yet he and his coach Rafael were able to tweak it and make it work better for him at U.S. Nationals. Most skaters get new programs for a new season, especially the Olympic season. I can't wait to hear what the new music will be.
Rippon just tweeted his FS music in reply to a fan's question:
"It's Afternoon of a Faun. I'm going to write a blog before I leave and talk a little bit about it."
ETA link to an "Afternoon of a Faun" programs poll thread from within the past year: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?84029-Afternoon-of-a-Faun
Wow, the new Adam was short-lived.
Will there be a new blouse, too? Afternoon of the Faun absolutely BEGS for a blouse.
^^ Or, skin-tight bodysuit! Yum ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRbjgbske08
And look at John Curry version (of course a ballet on ice):
Adam's gotta bring back the curls for Faun ... even if modified.
Thrilled with the choice and the chroreographer. Now grow those curls back, Adam!
Tom Dickson + Adam Rippon = LOVE!
Should be very cool. Classic Adam (and everyone can criticize him for having no range ). Although I had thought that after he admitted to finally having FUN with his Incredibles program at nats, I figured he might give that LP one last shot.
I liked his Incredibles program, but Adam never seemed really comfortable with it. Tom Dickson does amazing choreography so I can't wait to see what he does for Adam. Looking forward to this.
Hmmmm, interesting thought, but they'd be wrong, eh? Adam showed he could stretch himself but in the case of The Incredibles, it took time for him to work through an ill-conceived program that did not fit him like a glove. Keep in mind also that throughout the season Adam was adjusting to a new training environment and working on refining his jump technique. Clearly Adam and his coach, Rafael Aruytunyan, deserve kudos for putting life and pizzazz into a program that had none of those things initially.
Adam was probably not comfortable at the beginning of the season because in figure skating, who could be at ease with something that is not exactly suited to who you are and to your style of skating? (I mean look at Alena Leonova, for example,... great programs for her at 2011 Worlds and not so great since then). IMO, this season's fp was poorly conceived for Adam personally right down to the music, overall initial choreo layout, conceptual choice for Adam and original costume selection. At U.S. Nationals, Adam and Rafael made it work and Adam had fun to boot! I think that's victory enough re The Incredibles.
Similar to actors, skaters do need to be great performers, but it's not like skaters should seek to show range on the ice at the expense of employing music and choreo style that don't fully enhance their unique possibilities for growth and bravura realization of their potential. With the right combination of music, choreo and costume, as well as good conceptual approach and program layout, Adam can skate to anything. He's proven that, not just this past season, but throughout his career. The point is not proving you can skate to anything but steadily improving as a person and an athlete, and above all finding the right ingredients to create magic on the ice.
Here's the video of Rippon's 1st place FS from Gardena Spring Trophy yesterday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCTyBccNC1w
Beautifully done. I think Tom Dickson's choreography is perfect for Adam's skating.
Adam is back!
On first impression, I have mixed feelings about this program. On the one hand, I like it for introducing angular shapes and sharp gestures into Adam's arms and hands, which have always been soft and flowy and curvy. He's able to sustain these shapes most of the time. On the other hand, I still prefer Ilia Klimkin's Afternoon of a Faun program (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T746wFOKplA) to this and most other versions, just for its abundant weirdness and audacity (e.g., putting the only triple Axel smack in the middle of the program, a triple Lutz at the end of the sort-of straight line steps, a triple Salchow at the end of a camel spin, etc.). Perhaps only Klimkin can pull it off. In comparison Adam's Faun is prettier and easier to digest and slightly less interesting.
It's great to see the quantity and variety of connecting steps going into most of the jumps, like spread eagle into the triple loop and bracket before the second double Axel. The amount of transitions is a welcomed change after seeing a relatively bare free skate at Nationals. My favorite part is the backward glide with his upper body leaning back right before the 2nd Rippon Lutz with no change of edge. That's awesome.
It's also a program heavy with edges, which, if done well, suits the music. But it will be hard to do well once the triple Axels (and a quad?) are put back in and require no loss of speed. I see some little troubles he had here and there, which is understandable given how new the program is. Nevertheless I hope Adam will work very hard in the off-season to improve his edges and keep up with the demand of all the transitions. Also the spread eagles need some work.
The circular (or zig-zag) step sequence is lovely and unlike most other step sequences we've seen. I do think the choreo step sequence needs some revision. It seems small (a clockwise circle taking up half a rink) and relatively simple. I'd like to see a couple more moves in the field added to the sequence. However, given the vague way choreo sequences are judged, perhaps it's pointless to make it too hard or too complex.
Thanks for the link!
That is a beautiful programme, but does not suit to Rippon totally, in my opinion. Beautiful hand moves, very well done! I think that a skater with more speed and power would have been better for this type of music. Now a slow skater is skating to a slow music..., and the end result is not really impressive.
I would like to respectfully disagree with you. Adam looks to be skating faster than he ever! I dont know why people think that a skater has to be on 10 the entire program as just about no skaters are. If a skater is stroking gaining speed, he is NOT doing choreography usually. This program suits his skating perfectly AND adds some demension to him. He looks happy and extremely well trained. The other point is that usually we dont see new programs until October/November. THE DAMN THING IS NEW!!!!
If i could talk to Adam today I would say:
" Sir, you are very brave to go to a coach that you know will work on your weaknesses rather than mask them. Your hard work is evident in your jumps, spins, transitions and overall power on the ice. Please keep working hard. The Axel that used to give you a hard time looked eyons better at Nationals and i believe it will be a reliable jump for you going forward. PLEASE dont leave Rafael as he looks like he knows exactly what you need. You cannot make everyone happy ever. You're a very talented and capable skater. The sensitive choreography is well balanced with assertive presence. Great things are to come.Job well done and your hard work is paying off!"
^^ Here, here, arakwafan2006!!!
Adam's jump technique and power and confidence going into his jumps are clearly much improved. Indeed, it was very apparent at U.S. Nationals that Rafael and Adam have a great vibe and understanding going on. That's marvelous to see. Add the great choreographic mind of Tom Dickson to the mix and that's a winning combination. The point though for Adam is just continuing to improve and to challenge himself, and to work hard and not worry about anything else except that which is within his control. Very true that Adam's focus and hard work is definitely paying off.
I'd like to thank Jun Y for his link to Klimkin's Afternoon of a Faun. That was the first clear quality clip of it that I've seen. IMHO, the great skaters who have interpreted this music are taking different approaches. Klimkin's approach worked for his style of skating and is wonderful to watch. The whole middle section of Klimkin's program is edgy, interesting and different. Love the camel change camel which moves immediately into the triple jump (salchow?) and the running steps, the triple axel coming unexpectedly, and the Mr. Frick move with the backward lean (Adam has a similar move in his program). Obviously, Adam's program will evolve over the summer and into the new season, so it's kind of early to be judging it too heavily. I have to say, though, it looks really good right now and it'll be fun to see how it evolves. Outside of the angular shapes with his arms and hands, Dickson and Rippon do not appear to be going for edginess. It would be interesting to read an interview with Dickson, Rippon and Arutynyan about their ideas for approaching this program.
Also, Jun Y, remember that Klimkin and others who have skated to this music were skating with a bit more freedom under different rules/ conditions (Curry's and Sato's programs were more theatrical/ exhibition style), and Lynn's was early 1970s competitive -- plus she was a force of nature and she possessed unique God-given gifts becoming one with music, movement and blades on ice.
Tom Dickson and Adam are constrained by IJS requirements -- everything beautiful and successful that they achieve with this program will be in spite of IJS, not because of it. Klimkin contributed so much with his iconic and triumphant Faun program, but in a direct comparison skating-wise, I think Adam is a better overall skater.
Watched the vid. Like the choreo and Adam seems to skate pretty well here.
Klimkin's approach suited his avant-garde bent.
Adam's interpretation of this material matches his style and sensibility, while meeting the current program requirements.
I look forward to watching the program develop during the season.
Yes, ITA -- that's it in a nutshell!
I think Dickson, Rippon, Arutynyan are bringing out who AdaRipp is on the ice, and I can't wait to see more.
BTW, still missing the curls, but that's Adam's decision to make.
Just to clarify, the mention of "edges" in my post referred to the use of edges of the blades. It's about skating skills. I was not thinking about stylistically or thematically "edgy."
As for the avant-garde style, obviously Adam is not Klimkin and I don't want to see Adam skate like Klimkin. I just personally prefer Klimkin's artistic vision in this case because it's more my cup of tea. (Blame IJS as needed. It's probably partially true.)
Frankly I am slightly disappointed by how pretty and accessible the program is. Although Debussy's music is not particularly experimental or challenging, Nijinsky's original choreography is quite so. To reference Nijinsky but remain pretty is a bit disappointing.
^^ Thanks JunY, I appreciate your thoughtful assessments, and I understand what you are saying about your preference for Klimkin's interpretive approach more than not only Adam's current program, but also other skaters' programs to this music (as you mentioned in your initial post). I also got that you were talking about Adam's blade edges (IOW, I realize that your reference to the program being "heavy on edges" has nothing to do with your preference for the edginess of Klimkin's program).
Hmmm, again your thoughts are interesting and it would be fun to be able to have a conversation in person about how you're viewing this. That's the difficult thing sometimes about conversing in cyberspace -- having a thoughtful conversation about figure skating is simply not that easy as there are so many nuances involved and varying perspectives and preferences, and of course tone and intent can be misconstrued. It seems that you really appreciate Adam and understand that he and Klimkin have totally different styles, yet you were still expecting a somewhat different approach for Adam to take with this music. That's also why I think it would be enlightening to hear what Tom Dickson has to say about his discussions with Adam and their interpretive ideas. I do believe that having to fulfill IJS requirements is a major factor which continually challenges choreographers and skaters today (not always in a way they would like to be challenged, or in a way that necessarily allows them to work with greater freedom in realizing their artistic vision).
If you are a fan of Adam Rippon, what did you expect the approach and interpretation to be? More like the Nijinsky ballet perhaps? I think it's good to make references to Nijinsky (which Adam does), but also to be different. I suspect that by the time next season rolls around, Adam will be wearing a new costume and the program will have grown and will probably look even stronger and better with the best of the moves we already see further enhanced. In its current incarnation, to me the program is more like a sneak preview; a very enticing and beautifully skated preview of great things to come. Adam already seems very comfortable with this program, and he skates with great flow and power.
In fact, IMO, Adam already seemed reborn at U.S. Nationals in January in contrast to the way he looked at the start of the season last fall. He is stronger, more confident and his jump technique has clearly improved (there's no sign of the hesitation going into jumps that he had been displaying previously, particularly on his 3-axel). Again, it appears that Rafael and Adam are working very well together ... that Rafael sees Adam for who he is and that Rafael is challenging Adam to express himself on the ice fearlessly and with full confidence.
I do think it's interesting that you say you are slightly disappointed by "how pretty and accessible" the program is, but I'm not sure that "pretty and accessible" is necessarily an accurate description, particularly for a program that is a work-in-progress. I do believe that Adam has a pure, straight-forward style of skating that is definitely pleasing to the eye. This program flows beautifully, but there are also nuances to it which will likely be expanded upon as it evolves. The split jump is so gorgeous, and I love his sharp head turns and angular hand and arm movements. I also agree with arakwafan2006, that "the sensitive choreography is balanced with assertive presence," which is so wonderful to see from Adam. It is such a treat to be able to get a first look at this debut of a budding program and to discuss our first impressions. But again, what we see now is obviously going to evolve. I am quite sure a lot more difficulty in jumps and moves is going to be added, as indeed Adam's interpretation will continue to grow.
Lastly, I wonder why you feel that with more complexity in the program and with the "heavy" emphasis on edges that Adam will have problems in terms of maintaining speed and power. Please correct me if I am misinterpreting what you mean in your initial post. And also, please don't take offence. I think what you have to say is very interesting and I'm sincerely eager to hear more about your views.
I am not that impressed.....But I never have been an Adam Rippon fan so I sort of expected to feel this way about the program!
Why bother to comment, then?
So, has Adam announced what he might be working on for a new sp?
Maybe a new programs thread will be started soon...
I don't know what to think. It seemed it would be a perfect fit, but I am somewhat with Jun Y. Nijinsky- like movements are interesting, but I would love the imagery and theme to be taken further. But because it is a very new program, it all might come. I have great faith in Dickson's ability to think through every detail.
I went on a little Adam trip through time, and I still think he was at his most inspired in 2009- 2010 season. Whether because Orser and Wilson "got him", or because of smth. else, but "Livingston Seagull" and Barber LP are so distinctive and feel so right, I just want Adam to get back in that groove.
On a different note- Curry's "Faune" is divine. Breathtaking and heartbreaking. Like most of what he did.
For his time, Debussy was very experimental and challenging though. And I think still is, to a degree, we are just used to the sound. There is so much push/pull between stasis and constant current of sound there. In fact, it's 3- times- experimental material- first as a symbolist Mallarme poem, then as Debussy's symphonic piece, and then as Nijinsky's ballet... It cries out to be unusual.
Wilson, Wilson, Wilson......Adam was his "angel boy".
Yeah, it's probably true that Debussy was regarded as experimental in his time, although Ravel from the same period still sounds very fresh today (not including Bolero) while Debussy sounds more pleasant to our ears.
Of Adam's programs, "Jonathan Livingston Seagull" is also my favorite.
Skating programs are not like baking --- mix all the right ingredients in the right proportions and you get perfect muffins every time. Who knows what makes a memorable program for the ages? We can theorize till the cows come home but in the end it's all about the mysterious "chemistry." What I am really staying is: just because Mr. Dickson stormed back to the limelight with the Eleanor Rigby program for Alex Johnson, it doesn't mean he can make every skater look breathtaking in every program. Viewers adjust your expectations accordingly.
(Besides, as long as Adam is comfortable and happy with this "Afternoon of Faun" program, how much I like it is not important. It's a silly thing to say but it's true.)
Just my opinion.
That's all very true!
Though my faith in Dickson is not based on solely on reinvention of Alex Johnson; he quite often seems to find the lock to that door that unlocks skater's expression. Even leaving Savoie out of it, Jeremy A's Piazzola LP of 2008-9 is one of two of Abbott's favorite programs for me ( the other being "Muse"); his "Captain Blood" with Ross Miner was very much in the direction I feel Ross should be going etc...
But you are so right in that chemistry is a mystery
Love this program for him. But whatever program he uses for next season is not going to be half as important as whether he can land the quad (and both axels). His axels are OK now, but hopefully Aratunian can help him nail down the quad (lutz or sal, or both).
I hope he makes the U.S Olympic team. Wasnt he once thought to be the future of U.S mens skating, and now he seems like yesterdays prodigy almost. I think if he has good programs next year and skates well he will make the team, atleast I hope so.
Rippon mentioned in an interview at Nationals that he was working on the quad toe and Salchow (before his injury and 4CC withdrawal). I heard he tried a few quad toes in practices at Nationals.
Saw this link on Twitter to some photos of his Gardena FS: http://www.figureskatersonline.com/adamrippon/photos/13Gardena/index.html
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