Adam Rippon Makes Coaching Change - NOT an April Fool's thread

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by sk9tingfan, Apr 1, 2011.

  1. AnnM

    AnnM Active Member

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    At Worlds in LA, he tried to cut in front of a long line at the souvenir shop (I was next in line). When the clerk corrected him & sent him back, he berated her about the lack of organization in the store even though everyone else seemed to be able to get in line. I thought that was super tacky of him.
     
  2. bbkenn

    bbkenn Well-Known Member

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    Silly.
     
  3. ponta1

    ponta1 Active Member

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    You might want to follow your own advice; it seems that when others who don't "follow the herd" speculate, it bothers you a great deal.
     
  4. bbkenn

    bbkenn Well-Known Member

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    From following Brian Orser's career, it is no secret that he cares intensely for skating, his own, and now those of his students. He is often filmed at the boards going through the program with his skaters, and his emotions mirror that of his skaters. It is possible that intensity is something Adam could not handle. In the infamous K&C scene, Orser was likely mirroring the great disappointment Rippon felt himself, and it was probably too difficult for Rippon to handle that in the K&C. He likely needs someone more low-key and there's nothing wrong with that.

    As an amateur skater, Orser's emotions often made him a wonderful artistic skater, one of the best, but it could also conflict with his skating. I'm wondering if it is the same with coaching. He would want the best for his students, as much as he wanted it when he was skating, and while that push to excellence is inspiring, it may also be too overwhelming if you're going through a rough patch as Rippon may be experiencing.

    As a coach with only 4 years of coaching behind him, it's still a learning curve for Brian as well. I wish all skaters involved, from Rippon, to Christina, to YuNa the best in their careers, and I also wish Brian the best of luck with his coaching. His skating gave me very many memorable moments, especially at the Calgary Olympics, and I believe he will get better and better at all aspects of coaching.
     
  5. Sinclare

    Sinclare New Member

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    Thanks for the link I just got around to re-watching it. How did I miss that Adam met with Lysacek :confused: after the SP and went outside to call Briand in Toronto after the LP at Nationals? He didn't mention Orser once in the interview? This to me is a skater with an absent coach. I like Orser, I defended him giving him the benefit of the doubt- even feeling sorry for him when Yuna left. I get the impression that being discharged by Yuna (for whatever reason-not taking sides) had a really big impact on him.
    After re-watching some of the Kiss and Cry facial expressions of Orser from this season with Rippon I cringe how completely absent he was as a coach and looked so uncomfortable like he was embarrassed. It is uncomfortable to watch :scream:--- I'd rather see a coach over the top waving etc (no offense Robin W.) than look embarrassed to be there. That kind of moody, emotional coach has got to takes its toll on a skater.
    That said I don't think how a coach acts in the K&C reveals what kind of skill he/she has, I think it just gives a glimpse to their state of mind. I am sad to see Orser play the role of the victim so much this season. :(
    Maybe the loss of another student will give him the :kickass: he needs!
     
  6. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    But wasn't David Wilson actually responsible for the choreographies? I really loved both Adam's programs this season, I think they suited him very well, he is a wonderful lyrical skater. Just my two cents.:rolleyes:
     
  7. Sinclare

    Sinclare New Member

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    I liked them too. Maybe he will keep one of them for next season? He lists choreographers as David Wilson, Sebastien Britten.
     
  8. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    David Wilson collaborated with Sebastien Britten on Rippon's SP and Wilson choreographed his FS. I would expect Rippon to have two new programs next season.
     
  9. PUNKPRINCESS

    PUNKPRINCESS New Member

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    Oops. :shuffle:

    Where can I buy a pair of the rose-tinted glasses you're wearing? Rippon's disappointment took the form of bewilderment. Orser's disappointment took the form of cold annoyance. :cold: It was not a mirror. They looked like opposites in the way they handled it.

    This has nothing to do with my regard for Orser as a skater or his technical ability as a coach. He did a great job with Yu-Na Kim. And as a competitor, he is an Olympic Gold medalist in my book. The apologetics are getting tiresome, though. Oh Adam, he just "can't handle" the "intensity." Oh Adam, he's switched coaches so many times, he's just a fickle boy... :slinkaway
     
  10. EricRohmer

    EricRohmer New Member

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    This.
    Brian was a person who knew more than anybody how Korea Skating Federation is incompetent or sucks(lol).


    Insightful point.
     
  11. sk9tingfan

    sk9tingfan Well-Known Member

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    Pure speculation or sarcasm on your part, I hope.
     
  12. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

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    Simple economics. No medals no money. How is he going to pay for coaching and ice time? No one is going to give it for free to a 5th place finisher.
     
  13. Sinclare

    Sinclare New Member

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    I assume Briand is teaching for free :rolleyes: and Orser is now donating ice for old times sake?:rofl: I don't think any coach "gives it for free"
    But you may have a point that a lesser known coach may be less????
     
  14. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    Given the context of the entire post, definitely sarcasm.
     
  15. Dragonlady

    Dragonlady Well-Known Member

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    I'd like some of your ESP, and that of the others in this thread so I can be so certain of everyone's feelings and motives in the circumstances. I don't pretend to know the reasons behind the coaching change. Was there tension in the Kiss 'N Cry at US Nationals and 4CC? Yes, absolutely. Was it "annoyance", "disappointment" or something else. I don't know and neither do you or anyone else who has speculated about it here. All I know is that the announcement of the coaching change wasn't all that surprising.

    Of course, those just "following the herd" want to believe that Brian is a horrible person and skaters are fleeing for their lives. Or that Adam will soon be driven out of the Cricket Club.

    I will say this. Coaching etiquette would dictate that Adam's new coach could not have taken on Adam as a student without first discussing this Brian Orser, who, as head coach, is also his boss. Would you risk offending your boss in this way?

    And again, I reiterate, the lack of comment from Orser is the norm, not the exception, as proven by the USFSA press releases, links to which were posted up thread.

    Brian Orser did not become one of the most respected athletes in figure skating because he's a jerk and a nasty human being, regardless of what has been posted here. I've had the opportunity of watching his behaviour at competitions for years, and have never seen him be anything but gracious to everyone around him. Of course anyone can have a bad day.

    I'm just getting a little tired of those who have no real knowledge of any of the circumstances of this coaching change using this as yet another excuse to trash Orser based on their own animosity.
     
  16. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

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    My original quote was that I think that Adam needs a reliable 3A and quad to be competitive on the senior level as far as medals are concerned, and that he cannot afford to go another season without them and stay in the game.

    As 2 time junior world champion he came to the senior level greatly hyped. However, in 2 seasons he has yet to medal. He is not a teenager and I assume his family cannot support him indefinitely. His present training situation is not working for whatever reason so he should change.

    Skating is expensive and skaters need to make money (most families cannot support them indefinitely). And yes, if you are a star rinks do give you free ice time in exchange for the publicity your presence brings, and you do get appearance fees for shows, exhibitions, and ISU competitions. And yes coaches will line up to take you if they think you will enhance their reputations and make them money through your appearance fees.
     
  17. Sinclare

    Sinclare New Member

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    I think he has medaled each year in the Grand Prix's??? I know he won a bronze medal at Skate Canada and won 4cc last year, and was 5th or 6th at his first WC. That is far better than most as a junior entering the senior ranks. I think :confused:
    I completely agree about your take an the 3A. :cool:
    I don't know how skater's pay for lessons and ice fees but I highly doubt that at this level saving a few dollars an hour on lessons makes a difference.
    BTW...I am not Canadian yet I felt sorry for Orser over the Yuna issue. I always felt it was a communication issue that got out of hand. I supported him and felt he was getting a lot of criticism. But now? I don't know what to think.
    No one can argue that Orser was a great athlete who seemed humble and gracious when he was a competitor. That is who he was and not necessarily who he is today.
    Just because someone did something doesn't mean they can teach it. He had a team helping him with Yuna. I think if that team was stil working together Rippon wouldn't of had to file a press release and hire a coach he stands a few feet from everyday.
     
  18. MacMadame

    MacMadame Cat Lady-in-Training

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    You're thinking too hard, IMO. ;)

    Really, there is nothing remotely scandalous about what just happened. It happens all the time. In rinks all over the world with all levels of coaches and students. Student has disappointing season and decides to make a change. Some change everything -- rinks, cities, even countries. Some just change one or two things -- choreographer, shuffling the coaches in their team, brining new blood into the team.

    Except... this happens all. the. time. This is how assistants move up to become standalone coaches, for one thing. Plus, in some rinks, a group of people work together. For some students, one is the head coach but for another student, another is the head coach. Changing who the head coach is, in this situations, is *really* not a big deal.

    What it comes down to is that Adam wants a coach he is already working with to take a more active role in his training. It's hardly anything have to generated this much :drama:

    And I'm just :huh: at the idea that Brian Orser can't teach someone how to jump because one of his students has an inconsistent 3Z. Because, you know, that jump hardly ever troubles the male figure skaters of other coaches. :rolleyes: The jump is hard and it's one that many skaters *never* master. No matter who their coach is.
     
  19. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    Did the poster mean he had failed to medal at Nationals on the senior level? Totally understandable in 2010, what did Evan, Johnny and Jeremy all competing. Very disappointing in 2011. In the SP he fell on the Rippon lutz right by us and we were totally :fragile: Hoping the coaching change is a good one for Adam.
     
  20. 4rkidz

    4rkidz plotting, planning and travelling

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    you are correct DL in that typically a press release that is sent by the party would only include their own information, it would not be deemed appropriate to quote the other party unless it was a joint press release which usually doesn't happen in these types of situations. :blah:
    With regards to Adam, sometimes when skating is not improving you have to change you situation, not necessarily anybody's fault :p
     
  21. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    I've bolded part of Debbie S's reply above because, while I've heard that USFS normally does give all parties a chance to comment on coaching changes in press releases, I believe it is their choice and I agree that we don't have to "assume there is :drama:" if they elect not to do so or just aren't quoted in the release.

    All coaches are required to register with USFS if they want to coach students at U.S. Regionals/Sectionals/Nationals and international competitions -- see: http://www.usfsa.org/content.asp?menu=coaches&id=451 (both Briand and Orser are registered for 2010-2011)
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2011
  22. 4rkidz

    4rkidz plotting, planning and travelling

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    I think the difference in the Adam press release it was chosen to quote the new coach as opposed to the old coach.. unlike the example above from Sylvia when they chose not to quote Sato.. but rather the old coach. I think both are normal press releases as you usually want a couple of different quotes - as both had that.. I agree with Sylvia, not sure where there is any :drama:
     
  23. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

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    If he medaled at Grand Prix, I apologize. But he didn't medal at Nationals, 4CC, or make the World team in 2011. On top of that he still doesn't have a reliable 3A or attempt quads. I don't know whether he is a late bloomer or he just can't do the jumps at the senior level, but he is running out of time to bloom. the young ones are coming up behind him. If he doesn't show some progress soon USFSA may not give him any international assignments next season.
     
  24. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Rippon won the bronze at Skate Canada (his second GP bronze in 2 years).

    Rippon's ISU Season Best score (currently #5 and the highest US man at 233.04) and World Standings ranking (currently #15, 2nd highest US man after Abbott) should be good enough for 2 Senior GP assignments next season even though he won't be competing at Worlds.
    ETA: He's also #12 right now in the ISU Season's World Ranking -- he hasn't had that bad of an international season, really. It's the expectation that he would do better this season that makes it seem that way, IMO.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2011
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  25. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

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    But are these rankings what the assignments are based on? I don't wish a fail on anyone who has put that much into skating, but he just seems too tentative to me compared to the other men. If Dornbush and Miner skate well at Worlds it seems as if he may just get lost in the shuffle.
     
  26. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    GP assignments, yes. We'll know more details when the 2011-12 Grand Prix selection document is published sometime after Worlds.
     
  27. Yazmeen

    Yazmeen Well-Known Member

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    There is :drama: because a few people couldn't resist the urge to use the announcement to suggest that Brian Orser is a fading coach who can't hang onto his students. There is no proof of that, of course. As has been said by many, coaching changes happen every day. If this wasn't working for Adam, good for him for making a change, here's hoping it works out. Adam is not a bad skater, and Brian is not a bad coach. They just realized it wasn't the best situation for either.
     
    4rkidz and (deleted member) like this.
  28. Sinclare

    Sinclare New Member

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    I think your speculation is spot on. Rippon gave a video interview with USports at the FS in Harlem event. Said he did not get to work with Briand much this season and it was more of a position shift. Also said that he is still working with David (Wilson) and that they are preparing his programs with "new people" ?
    http://www.universalsports.com/vide...7-732e4dea6068.html#catching with adam rippon
    Thanks for the Worlds Standings link. Rippon's season was 12th in the World and was the top US Men's score at 5th in the World. I agree it was a good season but behind the expectation of his great start.
     
  29. officialcoach

    officialcoach New Member

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    Yesterday I saw a student change coaches because the coach asked the child not to yell "Chill out", when they left out spins, while training a program! The coach told the student it was inappropriate and the skater stormed off and left crying.
    Students leave coaches for a number of reasons.
    Orser has been a great coach!!
    Maybe the expectations are beyond achieveable?
    Maybe the student wants more attention?
    Maybe they don't want to pay a full rate?
    Maybe the parent(s) are never satisfied?
    Whatever is happening its more involved than we can guess at!!
     
  30. ks777

    ks777 Well-Known Member

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    When I was taking a skating lesson from this coach, he was showing up on time and everything but he started coaching someone else at the same time for like 10 mins.. I thought I had him for 30mins to myself.. he would tell me to warm up for the first 10 mins.. while he taught someone else and his lesson with me ends 20mins after the 10mins warm up.. this kept happening every week so I called him one day and told him that I needed to quit taking lessons from him.. I ended up telling him " It's not you.. It's me"... I felt like I was breaking up with him, lol. I never told him why.. I think he should have known better. If I am paying for the 30mins, he can't be coaching anyone else at the same time!