Adam and that danged tripe axel

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by foreverkwanfan, Nov 5, 2011.

  1. foreverkwanfan

    foreverkwanfan Member

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    Will he ever get it? It seems like he should have gotten it over the summer. Maybe he was nervous at skate Canada, I hope at least because without a 90% 3axel he won't get on podiums. It is frustrating and I am sure it is for him too.
    I'm wondering how he can do quads and the lutz with his hands over his head but cannot get the axel. He seems to have good technique otherwise. What is it about the axel??
     
  2. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Euros/4CC!

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    It's not like Rippon has never landed the 3A in competition -- he's shown he can land two cleanly in the same free skate before (2009 Junior Worlds, 2010 Four Continents). My hypothesis is that he has been tinkering with technique and different entries over the past several years with his various coaches and that his 3A consistency is likely to improve once he settles into ONE way of practicing the jump.
     
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  3. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    Has Adam ever landed a quad in competition? It seems to me his problem is compounded by the current lack of a 3A and no quad ( a la Lambiel) to make up for it.
     
  4. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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    Well, that live practice we got to watch via SkateBuzz at Skate Canada made me think he's no closer than he's ever been to having it anywhere near consistent. Maybe he's even less consistent with it than he was with Orser.

    He won't get anywhere near the World team this year unless he can find a way to get it under control.
     
  5. DickButtonFan

    DickButtonFan New Member

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    What I notice is that he is very frail and seems his body is not able to handle checking out of the jump. Maybe more weight train could help.
     
  6. burntBREAD

    burntBREAD Active Member

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    Being frail doesn't stop Hanyu from landing huge quads and triple axels. I think it's a mental block; we saw how long he stalked the 3A at SC.
     
  7. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    Adams lack of big strong jumps will always hold him back.
     
  8. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    ...and always skating to the same old type of ZZZZZZZZ music and a general lack of charisma.
     
  9. fan

    fan Well-Known Member

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    last year training under brian,he was extremely consistent in practise. this makes me think it is a mental issue - maybe a sports psychologist would help?
     
  10. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    . . . and he has a heavy, labored way of stroking across the ice. His skating skills still makes him appear juniorish with the constant back pumping and lack of speed. He's cute as an angel though. :)
     
  11. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    He has got good TES in the GPs desite axel issues though. It always amazes me that despite 3A problems, he has and had managed more than 70 TES in more than one GP the last few seasons. Then of course when he nailed his 3As in one or two gps and his TES came about 80

    That said, I agree about Adam skating 'small"
     
  12. ProgramerUSFS

    ProgramerUSFS Active Member

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    I sat in the fifth row right above where he was attempting his quad lutz. I watched him over and over again try. On one hand, it was amazing being that close and watching the power that is needed and the rip of the ice. But he was way short of even coming close to landing it. Every one of them would have been a mark down to a triple lutz. To me, he looked like he had gained weight, and he wasn't as fast and quick as he was before. It was pretty clear to everyone in the stands that I talked with, that his training is not the same as he had with Brian Orser. I suspect that if he doesn't go back to training the way he did under Brian, he is going to a hard time. And when I compair Brian's new skater to how he used to skate, the change is staggering. I really wish Adam would have stayed with Brian. I hope he goes back if the rest of the year is like skate Canada was. Such a shame.
     
  13. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I think Brian was the right coach for Adam. I think what caused Adam to leave was his need for a less emotional coach during competitions. Adam is a very sensitive kid and he needs a little bit more of an even-tempered, we'll-get-'em-next-time kind of coach after a bad skate. Still, I think he and Orser could have probably worked that out between each other and found a way to make the relationship less stressful for Adam after a bad skate.
     
  14. mjames

    mjames New Member

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    Many of us had the pleasure of watching Adam train daily when he was at the Ice House. I saw his skating up close and must say that he has matured and improved a great deal over the past few seasons. I find nothing "small" about his skating or presentation. I disagree and think his crossovers have improved a great deal and his in-between elements (split jumps, spread eagles, etc) are to die for. I can attest to the fact that he is a hard worker and what I saw today on TV was a skater who wasn't even out of breath after a near 5 minute program. He neither looked fat or thin just fit. IMHO I attribute his hesitancy in the Free Program to nerves --first competition after 4CC and Orser split then maybe feeling so much pressure being in his old training town. He probably expected more of himself than any of us could have wanted from him. I hope he is more forgiving to himself than some of you are. To me his performance was a giant step forward. I agree he is cute as an angel but those of us who have met him, given him a ride or got one of his famous "toe loop" lessons (DT can back me up on that) - know that he has a good head on his shoulders and were happy to see a smile in the K & C and a coach proud to be seated next to him ---even with mistakes. :D
    Keep rockin the :kickass: Lutz Adam and remember to channel your inner NJ -tell the critic to axel this! :lol:
     
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  15. foreverkwanfan

    foreverkwanfan Member

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    In his SP at SC I thought he showed great speed especially during the footwork section which I found to be very lively, I don't get the ZZZ from Adams programs at all. Everyone was clapping along. He has very impressive danceability and artistry. The judges like him.
    I just wish he could maser that 3 axel, he is too good not to be on podiums.
     
  16. care bear

    care bear Active Member

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    Do you mean Fernadez?
    Fernandez landed his 3a, 4t, 4s for a long time before he moved to Toronto.
     
  17. bek

    bek Guest

    Fernandez has improved, but I have to point out what the posters above said. Javier was already landing 3axels, Quad toes, and Quad salchows in competition. Long before he went to Brian.

    Brian's not responsible for Javier having those skills. Now Brian is responsible for improving Javier further, but to be frank its a lot easier to polish a skater up, improve their basic skating skills etc, even help them get more consistent. Than it is teach a skater the big tricks.

    Adam might not be in the right place coaching wise, but I'm not sure Orser was the right coach for him too. Its not like Adam was getting competition consistent on his 3axels and quads under Brian either. I think that what Adam more than likely needs is a coach who has DOCUMENTED experience teaching these type of jumps. To be quite frank probably Mishin would be the best coach for Adam believe it or not. Not that Mishin would take on Adam with Artur and the Sochi Olympics but someone like that is who Adam would really need. Someone who knows the jumps inside and out and has a documented experience teaching the jumps. Perhaps Hill who is great at teaching the 3axel.

    Brian may in the end turn out to be a very good technical coach when teaching students the jumps. I like Gao's technique. But I think for his own sake, Adam needs a coach with documented experience teaching these jumps. (Teaching and doing are two different things). I can imagine him telling Mishin (this is how he should train the jumps etc) Adam wouldn't dare.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 6, 2011
  18. doubleflutz

    doubleflutz New Member

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    He needs to stop changing coaches every single time he has a competitive setback. One time and it could have been them (especially since "them" was Morozov), twice means it's him. He can probably get the 3A down with just about anyone, if he develops the right mindset, but he's not there yet.
     
  19. bek

    bek Guest

    It seems to me like Adam likes to always go to the "hot coaches of the moment" I must say though, say whatever you will about Nikolai but it does seem like has good people working on the jumps with his students (And Orser's student do a good job with the 3/3s seeing Gao)

    This being said the hot coach of the moment may not be the coach for him, and I think Adam perhaps should look at someone with a documented history of working with his weakness that is the jumps.
     
  20. floskate

    floskate Vacant

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    Well Adam had landed the triple axel before he went to Brian and it seems to me that he landed way more in competition under Brian than he did with his other coaches before and after.

    IMO he needs to change the entry down the rink rather than across so that there's more space to jump into and it would lessen his tendency to stalk the jump around multiple corners!
     
  21. bek

    bek Guest

    Adam really didn't start attempting the 3axel until the season he went to Orser...I remember him saying in an interview before going to Brian that he had a nice two footed triple axel, and I frankly think that has remained the case. Its not like he's landed a ton of clean triple axels under Brian.

    I don't think the problem really though is any of those coaches, I think Adam just has an issue with that jump.
     
  22. doubleflutz

    doubleflutz New Member

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    That won't work, because it's probably not a technique problem, just mental. Or a technique problem brought on by a mental block that makes him unable to execute physically, plus a mish-mash of muscle memory from coach-hopping. Coach-hopping like this says to me that on some he doesn't accept full responsibility for his jumps, even though he has a reputation as a hard worker and I'm sure he's put a lot of effort into trying to get the 3A down. Harsh to say, but there you go. It seems to me like he's always looking around for some magic bullet of a coaching environment that will "put everything in place" for himself, so he can succeed. Environment can be a factor, so sometimes coaching changes work, but when it's like his default reaction to something going wrong, that means he's using it as an excuse. Basically, I think he needs to accept that he blows at the 3A and it's not due to a defiency in the coaching system, he just needs to work hard and have some patience. That's basically exactly what Morozov said when they broke up, and although the guy is a sleaze and I'm sure there was more to it than that and leaving Morozov was the right choice for Adam, I'm willing to bet there is a lot of truth and insight in Morozov's version of events.
     
  23. bek

    bek Guest

    But I think what I'm saying about "the hot coach of the moment comes in" When you get a new coach that's hot you pretty much hear all the good stuff and very little of the bad stuff. Thats why I'm saying why did he never go to a coach that really had a document history of doing a good job teaching his area of weakness. Nikolai, Orser, Yuka/Jason none of them had a documented history fixing triple axels. This doesn't mean that they don't know what they are doing but I have to wonder why the decision on Adam's part was always to go with the "hot, newer coach"

    And I suspect there is truth in Morozov's version of events as well. Say what you will about Nikolai but he does seem to know what he's doing when it comes to his singles skaters. Even if he's a jerk.

    I remember Adam saying later on that Nikolai and Orser were very similar. But I agree coaching hopping may mess up with the technique even more.
     
  24. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    His triple axel has gotten worse IMO. She is extremely cautious going into the jump. Like Dick once said about Carolina's lutzes, if your just going to stand, skating backwards, and wait for the jump to happen, it's not going to ever happen because it's just too hard to get the power and strength to do that jump anymore after waiting so long to get into it.
     
  25. mjames

    mjames New Member

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    Sound advice, I know once I admit that I "blow" at something it changes everything. :rofl:

    Glad this got moved to the trash can (where it belongs).
     
  26. purple skates

    purple skates Shadow dancing

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    Didn't he leave Morozov and go to Orser because he wasn't getting the coaching time from Morosov that he needed and Orser only had one major elite student (Yu-Na) at the time?

    Although it hasn't been said in so many words, I believe that Adam left Order because of some sort of personality and/or coaching philosophy conflict. There's nothing wrong with that - not everyone can work well with each other. No reason to stay in an uncomfortable working situation.

    What Yuka/Jason do have is a good track record working with someone with competition nerves (Czisney) which is probably why both Abbott and Adam went there.
     
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  27. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    But Adam has always struck me as having decent competitive nerves--not great nerves but better than Czisny or Abbott when they were 19 or 20.

    Sometimes when you're with a coach (or boss/teacher/etc) it's easy to notice things that irritate you and wish for a coach who doesn't have that annoying characteristic; but in reality, the coach you have may also have the one thing that made you wanna train with him/her in the first place. JMHO.
     
  28. mjames

    mjames New Member

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    Yesterday I saw a skater who looked recharged not someone who was washed up. Late last season I thought his performance lacked joy or the freedom he always had. I saw a renewed spark come back in his skating, a lightness in spite of the axel issue. Other than the axel mistakes I thought his performance was beautiful and love the LP much more than Rach from last year. His spins were first rate too.
     
  29. doubleflutz

    doubleflutz New Member

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    One and a half seasons with one skater isn't really a track record, I would say, as great as Alissa's improvements have been. I also think she probably could have done nearly as well just by going to any experienced, international-level coach. She stayed with her old coaches way too long, and it was clearly a case where the environment had been hindering her development for a long time. Jeremy had an odd season last year, and he kind of won Cup of China by default; it was a terrible competition in a lot of ways, maybe just awful ice, but it's hard to say how he'll do this season. So right now, it's kind of hard to say how good Yuka and Jason really are, and if that's the reason Adam switched, that's because he's chasing rainbows. When he doesn't let himself get thrown by a fall on the 3A (or putting so much energy into landing it that he messes up other jumps), he's a good enough competitor anyway. He knows how to fight for his programs, how to save his jumps, how to come from behind and not give up in the long because he bombed the short, etc. It's just the 3A that's having an impact on his competitive mojo.
     
  30. bek

    bek Guest

    Exactly. I don't think Adam's issue is competitive nerves he needs to work on those jumps. I still don't get why Adam always chooses to go with the newest coach rather than going to someone like Frank, Don Laws, Raphael etc. People with some documented history of teaching these type of jumps well. A part of me wonders if some of it is because with the new coaches I'd imagine you hear all the good things but not so much the bad things (yet) They've got the new shiny look.