About Gracie Gold - Phil Hersh

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by sk9tingfan, Dec 21, 2011.

  1. sk9tingfan

    sk9tingfan Well-Known Member

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  2. DickButtonFan

    DickButtonFan New Member

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    Roger Glenn, longtime international judge: "She should start Russian lessons."

    What does he mean here? A Russian coach for choreography? Seemed like an odd way to put it. :confused:
  3. AYS

    AYS Cruder than you thought

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    The quotes from Alissa's former coach Berlin come off as thinly veiled insults toward her former student, IMO, whether or not you agree with her. Bad sportsmanship.
    Eg,
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  4. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    I also posted this article/video link last night in the US Ladies thread in the Trash Can and mentioned that I like this quote:
  5. Aceon6

    Aceon6 Get off my lawn

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    I interpreted it as "she should start Russian lessons as she is probably going to Sochi"
  6. sk9tingfan

    sk9tingfan Well-Known Member

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    I saw Julieanne Berlin in the airport after the 2010 Nationals and my first reaction was that I wanted to punch out her lights! :mad: She was the worst thing to happen to Alissa. Her coaching style obviously obliterated all confidence that Alissa ever had in herself.
  7. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    I don't know why but when I see Gracie I think of the late comedian George Burns.
  8. AYS

    AYS Cruder than you thought

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    It's not exactly hard to figure out why. :lol:
  9. DickButtonFan

    DickButtonFan New Member

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    Oh, ok I get it. :lol:
  10. jiggs

    jiggs Well-Known Member

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    I wish people would not push her too much and let her develop at her own speed. Sochi is so close, and we have all seen what early pressure can do to young skaters (for example Carolina - she was so hyped for Turin and it backfired). Gracie hasn't even entered senior ranks yet.
  11. peibeck

    peibeck Counting down the days 'til Skate America

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    :wall: Gracie is an amazing, amazing young talent. But I don't like all this pressure being put upon her, let alone as "our best hope in Sochi." That is several years away, and she hasn't even skated as a senior yet. Our U.S. desperation for a new female skating star is showing. :shuffle:
  12. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    I don't know, that sounds pretty accurate. It's not an insult if she's just stating facts and it's true. I like Alissa, but she's not the strongest skater the US has right now. She was last year but this year, going by her performances (not necessarily results), I'd put her 3rd behind Mirai and Ashley.

    As for me, I'm not on the Gracie bandwagon yet. Why? It's too soon. Yes, she has big and awesome jumps and looks promising...but so did Agnes Zawadski and Christina Gao. Gracie's only done one JGP event; she did well, but we have to see how she's able to perform with the added weight of expectation. The jump from junior to senior is a treacherous one...we have to wait to see how Gracie handles it. She has wonderful jumps but the second half of her skating (artistry, interpretation, connection with the music, etc.) is lacking. Hopefully we'll see that improve over the next two years...

    But I do agree with Berlin; she's one of the handful of girls who has a consistent 3-3...none of the top US skaters have a consistent 3-3...
  13. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    Uh-oh...here comes the Kiss of Death and a guarantee that Gracie Gold will be the next NBC Commentating-Booth Dahling, following in the footsteps of Caroline Zhang's hyping ca-2007/2008:

    The things people are saying about figure skater Gracie Gold.

    Scott Hamilton, 1984 Olympic champion and TV commentator: "She is incredible."
  14. winterone

    winterone Banned Member

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    I agree completely with this. Last year she delt with disappointments and had to regroup. Let her be a kid. Plus imagine her sisters state of mind.
  15. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    After all the years he has been around skating, Scott should know that a lot of skaters who "tend to skate through the music" never get past that problem, even after a lot of "time".
    Not to say that Gracie won't, but really, learning to skate with and to the music is not something that magically happens just because you keep skating.
  16. Stormy

    Stormy Well-Known Member

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    I agree I don't like all the pressure and hyper on Gracie right now, al la Caroline Zhang a few years ago. However, Gold has already gone through a big growth spurt and her jumps are still+ freaking MASSIVE. When Caroline was being hyped as the next be all and end all of skating, she hadn't gone through puberty yet and had a lot of bad technique issues as well that you really could see probably wouldn't hold up as she got older.

    If she can handle the pressure and skate up to the expectations....even with some lack of artistry, this girl will be phenominal. I haven't seen jumps like that in a long, long time.
  17. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

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    Miki Ando has skated through the music for her entire career, but it didn't stop her from winning two World Championships.
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  18. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    Having big jumps is great but there are people with big jumps and solid technique who still can't skate a clean program in pressure situations. There has to be a combination of technique and consistency, plus focus and mental toughness, not to mention other elements and components that have to come together at once.

    I'm not saying she can't do it; I just think people are getting a little too excited because she can jump well. That's only half the battle...there are a lot of other things that have to line up in order for this girl to make it to the top.

    I don't want to sound cynical or anything, but I've seen this show too many times: promising junior jumping bean is expected to take the world by storm...then puberty and/or pressure snaps them like a twig, they crumble and yet another name is added to the list of over-hyped skaters who didn't live up to the expectation. She seems to have dodged the puberty monster but the pressure of expectation is a very heavy burden that only a handful of skaters are capable of carrying.

    Let's give her time and see where she ends up...
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2011
  19. luenatic

    luenatic Well-Known Member

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    Some people thrive on pressure. Most champions usually are the pressure loving type. I'm crossing my fingers for Gracie.
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  20. ChibiChibi

    ChibiChibi Active Member

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    I think with Gracie's situation, she and her team are somewhat starting this hype...I mean, after all it's them who keep posting her videos on her YouTube account... :shuffle:
  21. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

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    But some do. Michelle Kwan did, if memory serves.
  22. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    Yippee! Post number 21 and Kwan has entered the building!

    JMHO, but it was way more than just "time" for Kwan. I suspect a fair amount of hard work and training from people who knew what they were doing.
  23. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but Michelle was a rough cut diamond; Salome was the polish that really made her natural abilities shine...there was a grace about Michelle's movements before her transformation that hinted at what was to come with a little bit of work and refinement. Same with Mao Asada. In 2005 when I saw her bouncing around to Carmen, I could tell by the way she moved that with some training and refinement, she'd be a very elegant and graceful skater. Yay me! I was right! :)

    Some skaters do learn how to take the time and listen to the music and really move with it...others don't. We'll have to see what Gracie can do...
  24. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    When I first saw Gracie Gold compete -- she was 11 going on 12 years old -- I thought she skated and listened to her music very well. This was before she had a double Axel. :)
  25. sk9tingfan

    sk9tingfan Well-Known Member

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    David Baden, VP of Olympic Sports from IMG just congratulated her on her progress. I wonder if he is client shopping or already represents her? :)
  26. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

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    What was I thinking?? :lol:
  27. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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    That's how I took it and I agree.

    Shall we make a list of "She's Got Next" skaters from the mid 90's on?

    And I did see Baden's tweet..:rolleyes:
  28. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    I've never understodd the hype on Caroline Zhang. She had WOW spins, but her jumping technique has always been scary, and it's not something good that you can change easily, while you can improve style with time.

    First name to my mind : Julia Sebestyen !
  29. Louise

    Louise Banned Member

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    I don't really see them as insults, because she's just telling the truth. However, maybe it would have been nicer as Czisny's ex-coach to be more careful in her wording. There are also other young skaters in the US who could break out between now and Sochi. It's not just a diss to Czisny but a couple of other real talents.

    I'd love for Gracie to win gold in Sochi. Can you imagine if she goes in as the top American? Her name is perfection for sponsorships.
  30. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

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    I also noted that "What the Buck?" Youtube host Michael Buckley (buckhollywood on twitter) has also corresponded with Gracie on twitter...interesting..
  31. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Her jumps make rinks seem too small. Her SP has an odd music arrangement. Not sure what anyone could do with that! There has been potential like Gold like Zhang but she had problems with technique. She's getting a later start on seniors than previous girls who have been hyped which may be good.
  32. floskate

    floskate Vacant

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    I like Gracie a lot and she has soooo much potential but the hype does scare me a little. On the other hand, if she wants to be in Sochi she needs to get used to the pressure as soon as possible so she can handle it when it really matters. Some great skaters have survived the hype and gone on to outstanding senior careers. Better to struggle to deal with it now than suddenly appear as a gold medal prospect in late 2012/13 when the pressure will be even greater and implode on the biggest stage. Either way it's going to be a very interesting couple of years for Gracie.
  33. Louise

    Louise Banned Member

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    From the get go I would think ANYONE would have recognized that Zhang was possibly headed straight to puberty oblivion. When she burst onto the scene she was a tiny girl with tiny jumps with bad technique. She barely had those jumps down to a millimeter, there was just no extra room for growth. Gold at least has a somewhat formed body and she has hang time galore on her jumps just in case she does fill out more. I also think that once in seniors she'll be able to skate better programs. In junior, there is such little time to get things done that all the skaters seem to have time for is an arm flourish every five seconds and then on to the next element.
  34. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    If Zhang's body had stayed relatively the same after puberty like Kristi's then she probably could've eeked out a few more successful years under IJS with bad techniques. The stereotype was that Asian skaters were successfull, because they didn't grow hips, among other things ;).
  35. The Fly On The Wall

    The Fly On The Wall Active Member

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    Bad form, Julie, bad form. We get it, you're bitter. Do you have to be so obvious? I hope if Alissa does see this, that it just reaffirms her sense of having done the right thing in leaving you.

    On Gold: The EYEBROWS.....!!! :dog:
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  36. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Even with the bad technique, for a good year and a half she was landing clean 7-triple programs...

    She's slowly fighting her way back though. I'd be nice to see her finish well at nationals this year. Given how Gao, Zawadski and Flatt have been skating, I wouldn't be surprised to see Caroline place 5th or 6th...possibly 4th if that 3lp-3lp materializes...
  37. El Rey

    El Rey Well-Known Member

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    How many times has Gracie competed? I'm not sure how competitions work besides Grand Prix Series, Nationals and worlds. I only see she won her one and only JGP event. Is that what all the hype is about? Her jumps are really good though.
  38. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    AFAIK, 7 times so far this season (1 JGP, 5 club competitions from May-September, and Midwestern Sectionals to qualify for Nationals), winning all 7.
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  39. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Seriously? Her *eyebrows* are worthy of criticism?? How petty.
  40. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    oh my, sad but very valid point:(