A Dance with Dragons

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by Hedwig, Jul 15, 2011.

  1. Hedwig

    Hedwig Rarely here anymore but I try to be better!

    17,543
    2,861
    113
    In order to keep the HBO thread to become entirely
    black
    - a new thread to discuss the book.

    anybody else finished yet?

    I loved it! :cheer: After Feast for Crows I was a bit anxious if I would but this was more like it.
    Lots of things happening and GRRM is still able to surprise me. There were times in the book when I thought - ah, okay, now I know what is going to happen - and then something else happens. Like when Tyrion was sold into slavery and it was decreed that he should perform before Dany - ah, okay, that is how they will meet.
    And then they didn't. Or at least not really.

    Also liked the Aegon storyline. There had always been speculation if he had really been murdered and I liked the way he had been introduced and also - nearly best of all - how Varys came back.

    Hated the way he ended the Jon chapter. The letter was a cheap way to leave two storylines open and the stabbing of Jon...I don't believe that he is dead as it wouldn't make much sense at this point in the story and therefore it feels like a cheap cliffhanger.
    But that is about the only criticism I have. :)
     
  2. Buzz

    Buzz Well-Known Member

    17,296
    1,707
    113
    I really hope if Tyrion lives he is castrated! I get the hate for his sister but to consider rape on top of wanting to kill her himself and put her head on a spike? And can anyone in this book who has died or been killed stay dead?!
     
  3. dbell1

    dbell1 Well-Known Member

    10,392
    3,482
    113
    I'm up to page 500, so I'll post but not read the rest of the thread. :lol:

    Tyrion is shipwrecked with Jorah. I'm sort of enjoying all the things happening to him this book - stuffed in a wine cask (sort of karma for him), dealing with pissed off dwarfs, it's enjoyable.

    Not excited about Bran's storyline. Wondering if "Coldhands" was uncle Benjen - haven't gotten past it to figure it out. I hate hate hate his story this book. Talking tree people? Really? :rolleyes: Someone fetch my axe.

    Arya - I'm convinced 'the kindly man' is Syrio. I will happily admit to finding her chapters first. So sad that people are thinking Jeyne is actually her. She really is the lost child.

    Not a fan of what's going on with Dany. Locking up the dragons and letting one escape? Sleeping with Daario? Really stupid decisions there. Hope Jorah gets there before big brother. :yikes:

    Jon's on the wall acting all manly. :yawn:

    I HATE the different names characters are getting. It's tough enough to follow the original names.

    Mycella lost an ear? Interesting. Sandsnakes are still boring me.
     
  4. MarieM

    MarieM Grumpy Cynical Ice Dance Lover

    5,014
    854
    113
    Tree people look like the only thing able to fight off the 'others' right ? Or to help fight the war that is coming.

    Dany is making mistakes, but I bet it's what will make her a GREAT queen.
    Aegon has been protected way too much to be the true king. And learning what Varys was up to is ... nice. At least we all know that Cersei is a stupid bitch that is digging her own little grave :lol:
    Dany is going to be reunited with Drogo's people. I'm betting on that. Anyone else ?

    Arya I don't know yet. She's learning. She'll kill all of the ones she wants to I'm sure at one point. I hope :)

    As for Jon, he's not dead, or else ! I'll kill GRRM myself :p
     
  5. Buzz

    Buzz Well-Known Member

    17,296
    1,707
    113
    I do not like Daenerys at all and hope that she gets eaten by her dragons before reaching Westeros but I am happy that she making mistakes. Even the best leaders have all made bad decisions. It makes her seems more real but I still do not like her however. LOL I am not sure if Aegon is the true Aegon and not a look alike but we wil all have to see. Not 100% liking that Jon has so many opponents so he coudld seem more smarter or whatever, and is so wise while the others are so wrong but he is still one of my favourite charactes and can see him developing. To besides he has had to eat humble pie before in this series. Also I am happy that one of the Mormont women got a mention. I think they part of all this is the most underused in the whole series and the story would be better off to get more of them and less of some others. :D So "a bag of silver and a bastard in her belly" is where Jon may have come from. I like that a lot and seems so normal and real. Saintly Ned Stark was human after all.
     
  6. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

    13,003
    1,801
    113
    Is the book is a satisfying read in light of the fact that it could be another five years before the next one comes out?

    I'm going to hold off on purchasing it and wait to get it either second-hand or at the library. And I'll have to reread the other books as well, which I'm sure I'll enjoy. Just not sure whether I should do it before the series is done.

    The 13th and final book in Jordan/Sanderson's Wheel of Time series will be out this November so I'm going to reread the ohter 12 first. That will keep me busy for 6 months at least.

    Those books came out about every two years - the first was published in 1990. But I have lost trust in Martin these past five years. Is there any indication that he is committed to finish the series within a certain time frame?
     
  7. mindy74

    mindy74 Well-Known Member

    1,218
    139
    63
    Ok, I don't know if it's because I've had a soft spot in my heart for the past 13 years for Jon Snow, or if it's because of these fertility drugs I'm taking, but I cried my eyes out when Jon was attacked. I started tearing up when he was thinking about his siblings, and then the attack itself :yikes: I was actually spoiled that he is attacked, but I did not know who did it or the circumstances.
    I don't really think he is dead, but I just felt so badly for him in that moment. I wanted to reach through the book and save him.

    I'm very pleased with the book otherwise; I'm going to start a re-read because I admit I skimmed some trying to get the main storylines.
     
  8. Buzz

    Buzz Well-Known Member

    17,296
    1,707
    113
    I guess the way is clear now for the great Daenerys to swoop into Westerosi and save the savages from themselves and the Others. George you devil you!
     
  9. Buzz

    Buzz Well-Known Member

    17,296
    1,707
    113
    Not quite finished yet but just had to say.... NO NOT JAIME! Not yet anyway. I always thought it would be Tyrion who would kill him. It is so out of character for Brienne to lead him to his death to save her own neck. I hate the ugly wench now and hope her captors kill her too anyway. I am less surprised and upset about Jon. Should have seen it coming. The way his story was shaping up was very cliched because I have seen it at least a hundred times before. The hero who sees what the others around him are too stupid, blind and/or corrupt to notice. He was one of my favourite characters and I am going to add him to the list of best loved and much missed. This list will or already consists of: Davos, Jaime, Jon, Tywin, Jory Cassel, Ned, Robb and I suspect grow longer come books six and seven. :wuzrobbed
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2011
  10. dbell1

    dbell1 Well-Known Member

    10,392
    3,482
    113
    I'm done with the book.

    Totally convinced that Jon is not dead. Mel really can see visions in her flames - she saw the daggers around him. Once again, when a Stark is separated from their direwolf, they're in danger.

    Cerise's naked stroll and subsequent crying was so out of character. Loved how Ser Kevan realized at the end that she was right about the Martells taking over everything. Maybe if he had stayed when she asked, it would have been better for the Lions?

    Tyrion and his many escapes got silly. Loved the irony when Jorah got sold into slavery. :p (((Crunch the dog and Pretty the pig)))

    Ramsey Bolton - he did everything but twirl a villain's mustache and cackle loudly. Martin went way too OTT wit him.

    Very annoyed with the Dany story. We get it, you're a young girl and know nothing of war. Now go put on floppy rabbit ears and shut up.

    Still ticked about Bran in the trees. He's going to become a weirwood now?

    Buzz - Davos is alive and looking for Rickon and Osha. Jaime isn't dead yet either.

    Overall, I'll also have to read it again, but I'm going to wait a while and just re-read a book every year while waiting for the next one to come out. :shuffle:
     
  11. Buzz

    Buzz Well-Known Member

    17,296
    1,707
    113
    Yeah I agree about Tyrion. His whole story line has gotten too silly. However I am curious if the the girl Penny knows who actually hired them and if she will tell tyrion.

    LOL @ your comments about Daenerys. LOL

    If Jon really is dead at least I do not have to read, "You know nothing Jon Snow" ever again. hehehe But the storyline of the Wall is getting to be one of the BEST with Stannis coming in a CLOSE second. And now our wait for book 6 begins. :(
     
  12. MarieM

    MarieM Grumpy Cynical Ice Dance Lover

    5,014
    854
    113
    Should we make a poll to see when we think the next book is gonna be ? :lol:
     
  13. Buzz

    Buzz Well-Known Member

    17,296
    1,707
    113
    The safe bet is on next five years and it will be a very looooong five years. :(
     
  14. MarieM

    MarieM Grumpy Cynical Ice Dance Lover

    5,014
    854
    113
    Let's hope he won't do a Jordan and DIE on his fans !!!

    Jordan as Robert Jordan, author of the Wheel of Time saga. The last two books have been written by Sanderson. And we're all expecting the last one in March 2012. That shall conclude the Wheel of time saga. I still feel robbed of Jordan's style. Sanderson is doing a wonderfull job with it, but it's not Jordan's style with the characters or the pace the story is told.
     
  15. dbell1

    dbell1 Well-Known Member

    10,392
    3,482
    113
    Cliffs Notes for ghostwriter: (everyone add your favorite/most annoying)

    1. Arya bites her lip, 'no one' tries to not bite her lip.

    2. Dany hates floppy rabbit ears, but loves men with beards (and gold teeth).

    3. Rickon can be written out of everything. Shaggy Dog is a stupid name for a direwolf.

    4. Bran is a tree.

    5. Jon sulks (and gets stabbed, burned, other stuff).

    6. Jaime gets no respect.

    7. Martin loves to kill off favorites and critters.
     
  16. Buzz

    Buzz Well-Known Member

    17,296
    1,707
    113
    1. Martin love of killing off popular characters
    2. The ease by which the BWB kill off Freys
    2. Jaime being lead off to his death
    3. Daenerys constantly being described as the world's saviour
    4. Jon constantly saying to himself "you know nothing Jon Snow"
    5. Deanerys repeating endlessly " I am a young girl..."
    6. Daenerys whinning about being Queen as if the Meereenese asked her to be Queen
    7. Everything Melisandre does.
    8. Yeah Bran and the tree thing...
    9. Killing off Stannis and making to way clear for Daenerys the saviour of the world to storm into Westeros without a Baratheon heir standing in the way.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2011
  17. Verbalgirl77

    Verbalgirl77 is silently judging you

    2,321
    102
    63
    That scene was awful. The way he says, "Why?" at the end then thinks about stick them with the pointy end and Arya. It's the worst because he thinks the guys on the Wall are almost the only friends or family he has left. Come back, Sam! :wuzrobbed

    Then you have Theon's scenes and Bran trying to communicate with him through the trees, and when Theon hears Bran crying... :wuzrobbed

    But I'm on the Jon = Azor Ahai bandwagon now. I'm not sure where this leaves Dany though and I'm a fan of hers. :shuffle:
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2011
  18. Buzz

    Buzz Well-Known Member

    17,296
    1,707
    113
    I remember reading that no point of view character would die during this book but more deaths should be expected in book six. Imagine my surprise reading about the at best uncertain ending to Jon, Jaime and Stannis three main characters in the story. Not happy about Kevan either but that is George Martin. He also have a nack for reviving his charactes even though they seem to be done for. So in that I guess it is possible that all three (Jon, Jaime and Stannis) will survive book five.
     
  19. MarieM

    MarieM Grumpy Cynical Ice Dance Lover

    5,014
    854
    113
    What is funny with dear Georges is that he loves killing fans favorite. So far, Jon & Jaime are fan favorites. I'm not sure Stannis is.
     
  20. Hedwig

    Hedwig Rarely here anymore but I try to be better!

    17,543
    2,861
    113
    I am very sure that none of the three characters you mentioned, Buzz, are dead. GRRM, unlike most other authors I know, is not afraid to kill of main characters as we have seen, but even he has to keep a few around to keep the book going. ;) And if we don't see someone get his head chopped off, I don't believe in his/her dead.
    I still believe that the Hound is still alive as well for instance (and is the grave digger mentioned in book 5).

    The general feeling I get from this thread is that most of you are somehow angry or fed up with the books or some storylines? That surprised me because I really like Dance with Dragons. I found it had the magic of SoS again and was fast paced and witty. But most I read in here is how this character goes on your nerves and how you cannot read that particular sentence again etc.
    Do I get the feeling right?
     
  21. MarieM

    MarieM Grumpy Cynical Ice Dance Lover

    5,014
    854
    113
    Fed up with it ? No way !
    Fed up with waiting for the conclusion for sure IMO ;)

    Book five wasn't a disapointment AT ALL. I loved it from start to finish. I didn't throw it on the wall like I did with book 3&4 :lol:
     
  22. dbell1

    dbell1 Well-Known Member

    10,392
    3,482
    113
    I want to re-read it at a slower pace. I think for me, rushing through a bit to get to a favorite storyline might had done me in. I was also expecting another Jaime chapter.

    I don't know what I was expecting with Bran's storyline, but the Weirwoods didn't enter into my brain. The boy who can't walk is now going to be a tree. Or communicate through trees. I really have to read that stuff again.

    But, I will happily say that I hate how Martin keeps repeating the same things over and over. People get abandoned and we don't know what happened to them. So many different new people pop up and you're not sure who should be important. And people get new names/cutesy chapter titles.

    Anyone who has read all 5 books knows that Yigrette thinks Jon Snow knew nothing. We know Arya bites her lip. And we most certainly know that Dany doesn't like donning her floppy rabbit ears. He almost seems bored with his characters. Or it's lazy storywriting. Or he doesn't trust a reader to not remember these things? It's not like a new reader, unfamiliar with the storyline, is going to pick up book 5.

    Does Martin have an editor? Or is he allowed to write whatever he wants due to the popularity of the series? Maybe this is a transition book and he was tired by the end of it?

    I felt the same with Tom Claney books years ago. The characters kept repeating the same popular phrases. The evil people were way over the top. Characters appeared to die, but didn't.

    But, I did like it. Honest. :lol:
     
  23. Buzz

    Buzz Well-Known Member

    17,296
    1,707
    113
    I loved the book really!
     
  24. dbell1

    dbell1 Well-Known Member

    10,392
    3,482
    113
    :rofl: I just opened up my email and the ad at the top had a child hugging a tree. I thought of Bran and this thread. :rofl:
     
  25. Hedwig

    Hedwig Rarely here anymore but I try to be better!

    17,543
    2,861
    113
    :rofl:

    Good. I was already feeling gullible because I just adored most of it and devoured it without all these literary (or whatever) criticisms. ;)
     
  26. Buzz

    Buzz Well-Known Member

    17,296
    1,707
    113
    BTW... The letter sent to John does not seem to be a strong enough indication that Stannis is dead. Bolton could be lying or Stannis could have faked his own death. I refused to accept all my favourite characters are gone in one fell swoop. Guess I am in a state of shock and not everything has sunk in yet. While I am at it, what on earth is Varys playing at? He has a hand in both Daenerys and Aegon adventures as well as creating a rift between the now deceased King Aerys and Rheagor. (according to Barristan anyway) Is Varys and Littlefinger working together? Is he really interested in restoring the Targayen dynasty or just have his own goal in mind. And the description of the little kids.... YIKES!
     
  27. mindy74

    mindy74 Well-Known Member

    1,218
    139
    63
    :lol:

    Yeah, GRRM likes to re-use similar words and phrases. I would have loved DwD even more if the words "you know nothing Jon Snow" had been deleted. My least favorite phrase of all time.

    I also want to do another read at a slower pace after I'm done re-reading SoS and FfC. Just got to the Red Wedding--it never fails to depress the hell out of me :(

    The theory that Jon=AA is interesting...not sure if I want it though.
     
  28. dbell1

    dbell1 Well-Known Member

    10,392
    3,482
    113
    :lol: Hedwig, I know exactly where you're coming from. You've waited years for this book (and were tortured :p with the half baked FFC) and then you get a book you love. I'm brand new to the series and have only waited a month for this one.

    Feel free to tell me "you know nothing, floppy rabbit ears". :)
     
  29. rfisher

    rfisher Satisfied skating fan

    41,817
    8,256
    113
    I haven't got to Book 2 yet, but I'm :wideeyes: that Jaime becomes a favorite character. :rofl:
     
  30. Buzz

    Buzz Well-Known Member

    17,296
    1,707
    113
    Well Jaime has evolved over the course of the series. He was lost a bit partly due to his affair with Cercei but hopefully he regretts his actions and has partly paid for them.