2014 Skate Canada Challenge (qualification for Canadians)

Discussion in 'Kiss And Cry 2014-2015' started by Dave of the North, Nov 28, 2013.

  1. Dave of the North

    Dave of the North Well-Known Member

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    This will be held Dec 4-8 at Co-operators Centre at Evraz Place in Regina SK.

    Main page

    Live streaming info

    Schedule

    Competitors lists and starting orders:

    (edited to provide direct link - thanks Sylvia!)

    Results page

    Sandhu is listed. Rogozine is entered.

    Osmond, Daleman, Chartrand, Najarro in ladies

    One of the Novice girls is named Shaelynn. :cool:
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2013
  2. maureenfarone

    maureenfarone Well-Known Member

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    It will be interesting to see how Brittany Jones/Joshua Reagan score since they haven't been together very long.

    I don't see Alexe Gilles' name. Is she still competing?
     
  3. Sylvia

    Sylvia Club comp. season is here!

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  4. sk8hrd

    sk8hrd Member

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    I'm excited to see Osmond compete against Daleman and Chartrand who have been posting high scores lately. :watch: It should be a good test for nationals and to she how her recovery has been progressing. I still think a Daleman is going to win! :cheer2: I saw her on TSN and I think she has what it takes. With Osmond being injured so much I don't think she has been able to train well enough to technically keep up with Daleman who has 3Lz+3T in both the short and the long (7 triples planned).
     
  5. skatingguy

    skatingguy Active Member

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    Osmond is not listed on entry list - are we sure she is competing.
     
  6. sk8hrd

    sk8hrd Member

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    Osmond is #29 in the Start Order. There are 42 competitors listed, but no Amelie. :shuffle: That girl does not like to compete.

    If anyone hasn't seen the tsn powerade 24 video on Daleman here is the link: TSN powerade 24
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2013
  7. skatingguy

    skatingguy Active Member

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    It helps if I notice that there are multiple pages :rolleyes:
     
  8. puglover

    puglover Well-Known Member

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    Anybody know anything about Kate Charbonneau? I didn't see her name on the list from Manitoba sectionals.
     
  9. hohoho

    hohoho Active Member

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    I know you are not supposed to make comparisons between events, but Osmond beat Daleman with her SC International score in the short with a fall compared to Dalemans SP score at COS sectionals with only << on the 3T. Lacoste scored higher than Daleman with a clean skate at SC International without a 3-3. It isn't all about the jumps.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2013
  10. sk8hrd

    sk8hrd Member

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    Sure I don't mind comparing. If we look at Osmond's SP TES at SCI she 32.49 with pretty much a clean skate and with almost all +GOEs (except the 2A). Daleman's sectional TES was 31.39 with a -1.26 GOE on a 3T<< on her combination and received a total mark of 6.04 for her combo. In her FS Daleman did a clean 3Lz+3T and got a +GOE of 1.26 for a combined mark of 11.36, which is a difference of 5.32 pts. So if Daleman does a clean SP her TES will be approx. 36.71 which is over 4pts higher than a clean Osmond.

    So as I stated earlier Osmond cannot compete technically with Daleman.
     
  11. hohoho

    hohoho Active Member

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    Again I will say it isn't all about the jumps. But if you are comparing jumps, Osmond Had over 35 at worlds last year with a 3T+3T and 3F. She diluted her program for SCI from a planned 3F+3T and 3Lz due to her injury in Sept. So I believe it will come down to the PCS marks which Daleman doesn't compare. She will be behind Osmond and Lacoste in PCS.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2013
  12. sk8hrd

    sk8hrd Member

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    No Osmond has pulled the 3F+3T and the 3Lz in her program because of her injuries just like at SCI and is only doing 3T+3T and 3F. Unless you have some inside information?
     
  13. hohoho

    hohoho Active Member

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    She pulled it out for SCI only because of 3 weeks training. She has said that the plan is the 3F+3T and 3Lz. May not be for Challenge as she was injured again. Remember Osmnd scored 70 at nationals with a clean short with her current jump content. Has Daleman cracked 60 yet?
     
  14. Dave of the North

    Dave of the North Well-Known Member

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    That was the plan for COR. Maybe the same plan will be in place for Challenge, there should be some press this coming week to give us an indication. I could see her team keeping the jump content a little lighter, just so she can get both programs out there before Cdns.
     
  15. 4rkidz

    4rkidz plotting, planning and travelling

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    I think the top two Cdn ladies will be Osmond and Lacoste barring any injury issues.. I don't think that Daleman is quite ready yet - she is technically but like the other poster she still (to me) skates like a junior and doesn't have the artistic or finesse of Osmond or Lacoste.. now if either of those women doesn't perform or injury issues then I think the fight will be between Chartrand and Daleman.. this is purely based on my own opinion watching Chartrand and Daleman skate live earlier in the season.
     
  16. sk8hrd

    sk8hrd Member

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    I do remember Osmond getting over scored last year at Nationals as I watched it with my mother and saw her get +2 and +3 GOEs on almost every element. No Daleman has not cracked 60 yet but I have been watching her progress on-line and feel that she can do it at the challenge and if the judges don't over inflate Osmond's PCS marks Daleman will beat her. I like Osmond, but I think Daleman is a little ball of fire and I can't wait to see her streamed as a senior!

    Also I remember Osmond saying in an interview before SCI that this summer they were planning on doing the 3F+3T and 3Lz in the Sp and FS but had to take it out for because of the injury and go with what was comfortable. Ravi is not one to change jump content unless it has been tested in multiple competition as we saw last year. As well Osmond was supposed to be just starting to attempt triples for the first time since SCI this past week according to the Edmonton Journal, so I can't see her doing 3F+3T.
     
  17. hohoho

    hohoho Active Member

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    Have you watched Osmond in person or only streaming? There is a huge difference between Osmond and Lacoste and the remainder of the field. I don't think Osmond was overscored last year at nationals. There is always some inflation at all nationals worldwide. But if you look at Osmonds Nationals and then Worlds, they are very comparable. Osmond deserved +2 and +3 on her elements. And in terms of her PCS, she received basically the same at events in Canada, Germany, and Japan.

    I agree that Daleman is a good skater and a ball of fire. She just has to learn to control the energy and focus on other aspects of skating other than jumps. I watched her JGP programs from this year on youtube and felt that the choreography wasn't very good and that she actually regressed from last year in terms of performance. Just my opinion.
     
  18. sk8hrd

    sk8hrd Member

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    Lacoste does not have it technically. I know lots of other posters think that her going to Krall was going to fix everything but it hasn't. As Kwanatic stated in the nakedIce blog "Amelie Lacoste is doing more of the same...not much." Daleman has already caught Lacoste in PCS and from what I hear is working really hard to catch Osmond in PCS marks. Most people think Daleman skates like a junior because she has mostly competed as a Junior, but I hear her Senior programs are awesome.
     
  19. hohoho

    hohoho Active Member

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    I would think the Junior programs and the Senior Short program is the same other than she is doing the flip instead of the Loop (required in Junior). The Free Program will change a little based on the time allowed, but in terms of elements, they would be very similar. I would doubt she went to have a new Free Program done after JGP was over.

    Maybe you should actually watch these skaters in person instead of relying on what other posters and blogs are saying. Videos do not compare at all to live viewing.
     
  20. sk8hrd

    sk8hrd Member

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    I did fly in to Toronto last year to watch Nationals and watch Osmond and Daleman compete. I watched as they held up Lacoste in the Sp with PCs marks. Have you seen Daleman skate live? Have you gone to watch her in Estonia, Poland, Thornhill, or Detroit? Did you watch Osmond at Wildrose in August? How many times have you watched Osmond live?

    Also I have compared Osmond's marks and this is what I found:
    Nebelhorn PCS 24.8 +GOE total 2.95
    SCI 2012 PCS 27.35 +GOE total 3.98
    Nationals: PCS 32.66, +GOE total 7.55
    4CC: PCS 28.54 GOE's mostly 1's and 0's
    Worlds: PCS 29.54, +GOE total 5.36
    SCI 2013 PCS 28.83 +GOE total 2.96
    So how has she basically received the same PCS's at events in Canada, Germany, and Japan?
     
  21. hohoho

    hohoho Active Member

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    Lacoste is a beautiful skater and the PCS mark has to do with the presentation, interpretation, skating skill, etc. If you listen to Tracey Wilson on the broadcast, she mentions Lacoste's detail and presentation. She wasn't held up on PCS. She deserved it.

    I have seen Daleman skate live a few times. And I have seen Osmond skate a few times. I was actually in Calgary in August and took in Wild Rose. The programs were a mess then. I was in Toronto for Nationals and Osmond was "wow". I was disappointed when I saw her in Calgary. I also was in Saint John this year and she was better there than Nationals.

    So was Osmond's ~65 at Worlds inflated too? Everyone knows at nationals there is inflation, Canada, US, Russia, etc. Daleman was also with the same panel of judges.

    Ok Germany was low at 24.8, but she was new to Senior Internationally and didn't do well as a Junior. There is some inflation at Nationals as I agree with. The remaining PCS is the same with various judges panels. People say that Osmond was underscored at Worlds due to being earlier skater. They say she should have been second.

    In conclusion, since the COP started after 2002 Olympics, the marking is based on the overall package and not just elements. Right now the better overall package is Osmond, in my opinion, followed closely by Lacoste, and Seguin.
     
    4rkidz and (deleted member) like this.
  22. halffull

    halffull Life is a beautiful thing

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    I'm curious to see Lacoste now that she's had more training time in Colorado.
     
  23. sk8hrd

    sk8hrd Member

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    Well I guess we just disagree. I don't think Lacoste is going to do it again this year and I don't even know why you are throwing Seguin into the conversation. Her programs and presentations are far more juniorish than either Daleman or Chartrand. Yes they are 'cute' but skating skill wise Seguin is definitely not the better overall package than Daleman.
    Why is it that Osmond can grow as a skater and develop presentation and detail in such a short time but in your EXPERT opinion no other skater can?
     
  24. hohoho

    hohoho Active Member

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    I didn't say no other skater can develop. I am saying that Daleman is not there yet. Technically yes. PCS no.
     
  25. sk8hrd

    sk8hrd Member

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    Hohoho you stated in an earlier post that &#8220;Lacoste scored higher than Daleman with a clean skate at SC International without a 3-3. It isn't all about the jumps.&#8221; Yes that was at SCI, a few weeks later at TEB Lacoste only scored 55.92 pts because she had a BV of 28.23pts and only received 1.64 pts in GOE&#8217;s and her PCS&#8217;s were 25.95. Which is what it should be internationally! Remember I also stated earlier that if Daleman does her 3Lz+3T clean in her Sp she could easily score 63 pts.

    Yes Daleman has the jumps but she also has the PCS as well which can be seen not only on her sectional score sheet where she scored 26.16 pts with a <<T (who knows how high it would have been if it was a clean skate) and 54pts in the FS, but also in her JGP score sheets. In Poland she had the 3rd highest PCS marks in the Sp and 2nd highest PCS marks in the FS. In Estonia again she had the 3rd highest PCS in the Sp.

    Hohoho you also stated &#8220;I watched her (Daleman) JGP programs from this year on youtube and felt that the choreography wasn't very good and that she actually regressed from last year in terms of performance. Just my opinion.&#8221; But then you state in a later post &#8220;Videos do not compare at all to live viewing.&#8221; So how can you make a judgment on her choreography from streaming when you yourself said you can&#8217;t?! When was the last time YOU saw Daleman skate live? I wish I could, but do not live close enough. So I will only be able to see her at Nationals again. Also how could her PCS marks have increased this year over last if she has regressed? Good thing it&#8217;s ONLY your opinion!

    You also quoted Tracey Wilson on the broadcast, but if we also quote her from the broadcast at Nationals she states &#8220;..she (Daleman) has surpassed my expectations by a mile with her maturity and with her musicality&#8221; If you want we can also quote both Rod Black and Tracey who said that Daleman is the future of Ladies Figure Skating in Canada and she is here and now.

    Another quote of yours I would like to discuss is &#8220;I would think the Junior programs and the Senior Short program is the same other than she is doing the flip instead of the Loop (required in Junior). The Free Program will change a little based on the time allowed, but in terms of elements, they would be very similar.&#8221; This statement to me shows your lack of knowledge in skating and understanding of PCS marking. Yes, Junior and Senior SPs are the same length but if Daleman was to put in a flip instead of the loop the transitions and lines would also be different. As well a skater can improve over the season and thus put more difficult transitions, linking footwork and movement (sound familiar) into their program as they get more comfortable with it. A Senior FS can be a lot different than a Junior as there is 30 seconds more and thus allows the skater to add more transitions, linking footwork and movement (sound familiar again?) and choreography without being rushed. You would know this if you ever actually skated. What did you think Daleman would do for 30 seconds? Skate around in circles or do a Plushenko, where he stops kisses his finger and points it into the crowd? So when you say &#8220;the better overall package is Osmond, in my opinion, followed closely by Lacoste, and Seguin&#8221; I cannot take you seriously at all. Yes Daleman has the jumps, but she has the spins and I believe she will have improved her PCS&#8217;s enough that she will be able to make a run for the top of the podium.

    If Osmond can improve her PCS marks from 49pts in Moncton to 67.68 in Mississauga without the technical content that Daleman has than why can&#8217;t Daleman improve that much? I get that you are a fan of Osmond (so am I) and that&#8217;s fine but clearly you don&#8217;t know the sport of figure skating. Lacoste seriously?? She is a very mediocre skater at the end of her career.
     
  26. Jayar

    Jayar Well-Known Member

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    I would hardly call a national champ mediocre. That's not cool.
     
  27. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    Lacoste is better than ever, imo.
     
  28. nynyfee

    nynyfee Active Member

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    Hum ok novice, junior and senior national champ, I don't think that is mediocre.
     
  29. 4rkidz

    4rkidz plotting, planning and travelling

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    ITA she is having her best season so far IMHO..
     
  30. geoskate

    geoskate Well-Known Member

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    I'm away for only a week, and come back to find a mini-version of the V/M vs. D/W fight . . .

    Any one of the skaters being dumped on by various posters (Osmond, Lacoste, Daleman, Chartrand, Sequin) would have been welcomed with open arms only five years ago. How quickly people forget what Canadian women's skating used to be like.