2014 Olympic 'Team Skating' Qualifying - 12 Nations Were in the Running; Ten Made It!

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Visaliakid, Oct 27, 2013.

  1. Visaliakid

    Visaliakid Well-Known Member

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    Opening article in an updated weekly series on 2014 Olympic 'Team Skating' Qualification process...

    Canada, USA, Russia Leading Olympic Team Qualifications; Top 10 Teams Determined

    Olympic ‘Team Skating’ Qualifying – (Update 1 following Skate Canada results): Oh, Canada! Canada’s Lead Grows, Top 5 Unchanged, Germany Makes Move

    During the coming weeks as the ISU Grand Prix Series unfolds, there will be additional qualifying points updates and informative articles delving into the new Olympic "Team Skating" format that is set up in the ISU Qualification System for XXII Olympic Winter Games, Sochi 2014 Annex A – Olympic Figure Skating Team Event .pdf document.

    It is the purpose of Author Patrick Ryan and Blazing Blades to provide an informative and clear understanding of how the new event has been constructed and will unfold in Sochi. We'll discuss the configuration of the team event format and it's rules which we hope will provide skating fans with maximum viewing enjoyment come Feb 6, 2014 when it all unfolds before us. - Peter Murray, Editor - Blazing Blades
  2. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for posting that, Visaliakid, this is the event I've been looking forward to the most! :smokin:

    And with Julia L. quickly becoming the next Tara Lipinski, Russia now has a chance to win it all! Or at least a Team Medal of any color, thereby helping teammate Evgeni Plushenko (knock on wood) to become the first figure skater in history to tie Gillis Grafstrom in number of Olympic Medals won. :cool: *shivers*
  3. elif

    elif Active Member

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    I don't understand scoring. Short programs are much more important. If Volosozhar/Trankov get 10 points for short program (first) and then Stolbova/Klimov finish 5th place in the free (last) they will have still total 16 point.:rolleyes:
  4. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Yes. It sounds like you do understand the scoring.

    It is very likely that Russia, Canada, and the US will be in the finals, with two of France, Japan, China, and Italy. The SP is critical, because there are five countries that won't make the finals but who can be spoilers by putting space between the eventual finalists' placements in the SP/SD. Also, there may be finalists without a Pairs team, so that the last place team in the SP will get 2 or 3 points, not 1. However, by upping the points for the 4th and 5th place team in the FS/FD, they make the results after the SP/SD less of a foregone conclusion and, theoretically the incentive is to get the best skaters to skate the FS/FD.
  5. bek

    bek Guest

    I actually think Italy could do well....
  6. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    Noooooooooooo we lost to the Poms again :wuzrobbed

    And no chance to make it up because there are no Australians on the Grand Prix and none of our lovely juniors made the JGPF :wuzrobbed :wuzrobbed
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2013
  7. elif

    elif Active Member

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    So teams can't close to gap at the free program. All teams least going to get 6 points.
  8. luenatic

    luenatic Well-Known Member

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    Ummm.... If the Australian skaters are not competitive enough to make the GP/Jr GP circuit, why are you crying that they don't make the Olympic team event? Oh Gawd, I'm in a b*tchy mood today...
    PeterG, alilou, Erin and 3 others like this.
  9. Sedge

    Sedge Active Member

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    I am not sure that the top 10 teams have been determined (as the headline in the first article says) have they?
    Spain still has Fernandez's big points coming in the GP , GPF and Europeans.
    Spain should be about 1150 , at least, from Worlds currently..so I expect them to move well up the list after GP's ( 400/360 for 1st/2nd) GPF and Euros.
  10. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Spain was never in the running in the first place.
  11. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    This analysis assumes that only the teams that have qualified three disciplines for Sochi are in the running, and that the appointed skater/team can be used only to fill in the fourth discipline. Spain would already be on the list in the Top 10 without any of Fernandez's GP points were countries qualifying two able to appoint a third, while the only 12 teams on the list were those who've qualified three or four disciplines. (Lafuente is very unlikely to qualify off the alternates list.)

    One thing the announcement doesn't say explicitly is if a skater/team competes in the SD/SP, and the other skater(s)/team(s) from that country can't/won't compete, whether the team that skated is also banned from the individual event. If so, the country might not want to risk participating. Germany, while it has a lot of points to qualify for the event, mostly based on S/S results, won't be a contender for the finals, because S/S aren't skating -- even if they did, Germany is unlikely to be Top Five -- their Men and Ladies are comparatively weak, and their best Dance team likely to be around 6th-7th. UKR is in a similar boat, and it will be interesting to see of the British Olympic Committee even appoints a Man. Any country might decide it's best to give their athletes a test drive in the short, but they might decide it's not worth it, especially if they have a skater/team nursing an injury, for example, and could use an extra week to recover, and/or they don't want to risk forcing a medal contender to do the SP/SD if the #2 skater/team is injured or ill.

    As far as closing the gap from the FS, either the points will be clustered together and the FS will be definitive, or there will be a gap between the leaders and next tier down, and without a meltdown at the top, they won't catch up. This could determine who will skate the FS/FD, because if it's close, a team that previously said "no" to the FD/FS might reconsider -- something built into the USFS process -- but if a team has little chance for a medal, especially if it made it into the final on the results of a skater/team that won't compete in the final without strong No. 2/3, No. 2 or No. 3 will be in the final, just to keep themselves qualified for the individual event.

    The Team Event will have the most immediate impact on Pairs. That will be interesting for Canada, if V/M and Chan only want to do the SP/SD, because that will leave one Pair to do both phases right before the individual event.
  12. Sedge

    Sedge Active Member

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    That was actually my point about Spain.
    The rules state you must field a team of 3....and you may access an additional entry from the quota.
    It is far from clear whether you can use that entry to get you to a fielded team of 3.
    I guess I am saying it is wonderful to have this new chart and all the work that has been put into it ..but is it correct?
  13. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    The announcement says,

    It doesn't say that a nation has to "qualify" in three disciplines, just "participate." Since the last lines talk about appointing athletes to "compose" a team, it isn't clear *from the ISU document* whether this means a nation could appoint the third to "compose" a team in which three disciplines could participate.

    In fact, the document also states that the appointed skaters can't be used if the nation qualified for the discipline and,

    which suggests a country with two qualified disciplines could appoint a third, but not a third and fourth, because if only teams with three qualified disciplines can make an appointment for a fourth, there'd be no reason to explicilty state that only one discipline could be appointed.

    Spain should :mitchell: on this basis.

    However, ISU documents aren't known for consistency or logic. They haven't learned that decision tables are their friends, or they don't want to learn because this way, they can be "flexible."
  14. Sedge

    Sedge Active Member

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    Thanks kwanfan1818.
    I agree with your interpretation of the wording.
    It seems you can use the additional spot to get to 3 entries and you have thereby fielded a team of 3 entries...and can enter.
    I also agree with your 'for only one discipline' logic.
    There would be no need to state ' can be used for only 1 discipline' if the reality was that a team could only proceed if they had 3 and accessed a 4th via the quota spot.
  15. skatingguy

    skatingguy Active Member

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  16. immoimeme

    immoimeme having a nice day

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    Am I the only one who thinks this event is a stupid idea?
    peibeck and (deleted member) like this.
  17. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    Will someone on Twitter ask Phil Hersh to get some clarity from ISU regarding Spain's situation?
  18. kylet3

    kylet3 Well-Known Member

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    I think someone jumped the gun on South Korea to be honest. They have a junior dance team, but are they age eligible? I'm not sure they both even have citizenship and I'm not certain I've seen them with a pairs team recently. I'm not convinced they're in at all. In fact I'd be willing to bet they probably won't field a full team...
  19. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    They can't compete without a full team and they don't have one.
  20. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    How did South Korea even get a spot? Are all those points Yuna Kim's?
  21. Jeschke

    Jeschke Well-Known Member

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    most of the points are from yu-na, but they got some points for this season results on jgp, where kim/minov (dance), lee (men) and choi (kim) have had some high placements (4th and 5th places).
  22. Willowway

    Willowway Well-Known Member

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    Immoimeme - no, you're definitely not alone!
  23. Tweak

    Tweak New Member

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    Yes, the junior dance team is age eligible. The girl, Rebeka Kim, turned 15 in January 2013 and the boy is 20 years old. But IIRC he was cleared to skate for South Korea just at last year's Jr. Worlds, not sure if he has Korean citizenship though to be eligible to skate at the Olympics.

    If they were to do this event they'd have to learn the Finnstep. The juniors SD pattern this year is Quickstep so they'd have to scrap it and put the Finnstep in. And add more content to the FD.
  24. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    He doesn't have South Korean citizenship. And even if he did, South Korea doesn't have a Pair team.
  25. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Yes. She was the single woman from South Korea competing at Worlds and by placing top two, she earned tree spots for Korean Ladies.

    The wikipedia article is wrong about the team event.
  26. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    The number of spots for ladies doesn't have anything to do with the team event.

    If they are wrong- can you say why? Are those point totals not accurate?
  27. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    It's not about the point totals not being accurate. South Korea isn't eligible for the team event because it has only managed to qualify to the OWG in one discipline, Ladies.
  28. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    However, the writer may have confused the number of spots/athletes total (3), all earned by Kim in Ladies, with the minimum number of disciplines needed to compete (3).

    Also, all of those points were not earned by Kim. She earned 1200 of the 1400+ 2012-13 points listed in the article in the "championships" column. The other points were earned by at least one woman in JGP and by a man at JGP and either 4C's or Jr. Worlds.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
  29. MissJD

    MissJD Active Member

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    VM said after TEB that they'll skate both sd and fd in the team event, and it's not a worry because there is plenty of time between. I'm guessing both MT/M and D/R will skate for pairs so neither has to do both.

    I wonder if S/S will change their minds about the team comp? It was pretty early when they said they didn't want to. I don't see Trankov changing his mind, lol.
  30. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    That's very good news for the Pairs. Not so good news for Weaver/Poje, who will miss out on a medal opportunity.
  31. skatingguy

    skatingguy Active Member

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    I'm sure why though, according to the ISU regulations any team can add entries needed to compete in the Team Event even if they haven't been qualified through the regular way - for example Japan can add a pairs team even though they haven't qualified one.
  32. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    That isn't true: each country can appoint *one* skater/team in *one* discipline who has not qualified through Worlds, the Olympic qualifier, or the host spot (not needed for Sochi), and each team must be able to compete in a minimum of three or four disciplines. Were Korea to add one skater/team, they only have two disciplines, and they need a minimum of three.

    The multi-page document which explains the qualification process isn't clear what "complete" a team means, or whether the "appointed" skater/team can be in the third discipline, i.e., qualify two the regular way and add one for a minimum of three, in which case Spain could compete, or whether the "appointed" skater/team must be in the fourth discipline, i.e. qualify three the regular way and add one to complete all four disciplines, in which case Spain couldn't compete (unless there are so many withdrawals that Lafuente climbs way up the list).
  33. rosewood

    rosewood Well-Known Member

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    If I understand correctly the only countries which earned spots in three individual disciplines can add skaters in the fourth discipline. In how many individual disciplines did South Korea earn the spots?
  34. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Korea earned spots in one discipline, Ladies. Korea's "standby" in Men is 8th on the list. They do not have a standby Pair or Dance team.

    Someone published an article interpreting the TE announcement as meaning that a country must qualify in three disciplines and has the option to add a fourth, if the fourth meets the Olympic minimum TES scores by 27 January 2014. (Their NOC's may have other, more stringent requirements or earlier dates.) However, it's possible to interpret "complete" a team as meaning qualifying two and appointing a third to create the minimum team of three disciplines.

    At the moment, qualifying in
    • Four disciplines: GER, ITA, USA, CHN, RUS, CAN, FRA, UKR
    • Three disciplines: JPN (no Pairs), EST (no Dance, and Pairs Man has been denied citizenship, with no other team at this time having competed in the last two seasons and having earned minimums), GBR (no Pairs), AUS (no Pairs)
    • Two disciplines: SWE (Ladies, Men), ESP (Men, Dance), CZE (Ladies, Men), AUT (Ladies, Men), ISR (Men, Pairs
    • One discipline: KOR (Ladies), SVK (Ladies), KAZ (Men), UZB (Men), BEL (Men), LTU (Dance, with Tobias' request for a citizenship exception denied once), AZE (Dance), NOR (Ladies), GEO (Ladies), BRA (Ladies), ROU (Men), PHI (Men), TUR (Dance)

    Because Zaboev has been denied Estonian citizenship, first alternate in Pairs is JPN. JPN has qualified for the TE regardless of whether ESP (with two qualified disciplines) is in; it looks like they won't have to appoint Takahashi/Kihara after all. The next three alternates are AUT, PRK, and BLR. If any of the NOC's come up with additional requirements that would cause some of the countries to give up spots, even if a country with two can appoint a third to "complete" a three-discipline team, AUT wouldn't be a factor. PRK and BLR would be qualifying their first disciplines.

    In Men, the first three alternates are POL, BRA, DEN, none of which would have an impact on the TE, even were POL to get a Dance spot off the alternates list as well.

    In Ladies, LTU, FIN, and LUX are the three alternates. If any spots are relinquished, none of these three countries would impact the TE, even if FIN were to get a Dance spot off the alternates list as well.

    In Dance, if Tobias' citizenship request/appeal doesn't result in citizenship in time, SVK is the first alternate and will be offered the spot, followed by POL, and GEO. None of these countries will impact the TE.

    If three are required to have qualified in the normal way, Lafuente would need 14 spots to open and/or be passed, or the Spanish Pair would need seven more spots (after EST's is given to JPN) to open up before ESP would qualify for the TE.
  35. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    FWIW, South Korea earned points towards the Team Qualification in men's as well. The same man they sent to Nebelhorn placed high enough at 4ccs to earn points. But as noted above, he's on standby.
  36. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Teams can earn points from skaters that haven't qualified themselves, either through their own countries' selection processes and/or by not meeting the Olympics TES minimums or where the country has not qualified a skater for the discipline. If they make it skater-specific, the last team or two might not know until the last minute whether it qualified, because they might be waiting until after Euros or 4C's for skaters to meet their NOC criteria, but they certainly could base the calculation on which had qualified for what discipline by the end of GPF, and make the calculation only based on those disciplines qualified.
  37. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    • Kemp/King have qualified a Pairs spot for Great Britain at Nebelhorn.
  38. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Oops, sorry. GBR has no Men.
  39. morqet

    morqet Active Member

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  40. Sedge

    Sedge Active Member

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    The Plushenko paragraphs from

    http://www2.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/p...v-list,00.html Communication 1839.

    Last edited: Dec 9, 2013
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.