2014 Olympic Figure Skating Team Trophy Event in Sochi

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Simone411, Sep 21, 2013.

  1. Simone411

    Simone411 aka IceSkate98

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    I'm not sure if it's been discussed yet or if there is already a thread regarding the Team Trophy event. This is an article explaining about the competition by Jo Ann Schneider Farris.

    The initial phase which is the short program phase for both pairs and men of the team competition is scheduled for February 6th, 2014 which is one day before the Olympic Opening ceremony.

    The article is very informative, and I learned more about the Team Trophy event that I didn't know. I'm really looking forward to watching this event at the Sochi Olympics.

    http://figureskating.about.com/od/o.../Olympic-Figure-Skating-Team-Trophy-Event.htm
     
  2. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    Nitpick: It's technically not called the "Team Trophy" event, just Team event. ;)

    Re-posting from an earlier GSD thread... For the team qualification rules, refer to page 5 onwards in the section of the ISU document titled ANNEX A - OLYMPIC FIGURE SKATING TEAM EVENT: http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=4263

    Excerpt:

    b) Ten (10) NOCs/ISU Members will qualify to enter their Teams based on the qualifying points scoring scale as outlined in sub-paragraph e) below) scored by its best one (1) Lady Single Skater, best one (1) Man Single Skater, best Pair Skating couple and best Ice Dance couple primarily at ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2013 (season 2012/13) and the ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating events and Final season 2013/14, plus if necessary the ISU European Figure Skating Championships/ISU Four Continents Figure Skating Championships 2013 (season 2012/13), the ISU World Junior Figure Skating Championships 2013 (season 2012/13)[/b] and ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating season 2013/14 (only in individual events but not the Final).

    Timeline:
    5-8 December 2013 - ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final (Japan) and subsequent ISU information regarding the qualified Teams for the Olympic Figure Skating Team Event.
     
  3. Simone411

    Simone411 aka IceSkate98

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    Thanks for the extra information, Sylvia. I felt there had to be another thread about it somewhere. :)
     
  4. Sedge

    Sedge Active Member

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    The article states

    Each Nation's team ( depending on the way they exercise their 2 allowed substitutes) can consist of 6 -10 members total.
    6 if they use no substitutes...up to 10 if they substitute both pair and dance teams in the FP.

    Good for Joanne for starting the information flowing on this event.
     
  5. misskarne

    misskarne #ForzaJules #KeepFightingMichael

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    #australiafortheteamevent


    #2018maybe?
     
  6. Jiazumi

    Jiazumi Active Member

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    Does anyone know if Spain will be there?
     
  7. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    I want to procrastinate yet feel productive, so I've figured out standings for 17 teams. I feel like someone else did this, but here it is again.

    Basically, countries earn 2 sets pf points. Let's call these 2013 points and 2014 points. The 2013 points are based on results from last season's championships (Worlds, Euros/4cc and Jr. Worlds), and the 2014 points are based on results from this season's GP (GP, GP Final; JGP events (not final) could be used if no points earned in GP or GP Final).

    Unfortunately, with the 2013 points, if a country earned any qualifying points at Worlds in a discipline, I believe they have to use those points even if they earned more points at their continental championships.

    Please someone tell me I'm wrong with that interpretation! At least it doesn't seem to impact who the top 10 are, though.

    But based on that interpretation, here are the standings heading into the "2014 points" opportunities, with number of disciplines earning points in parenthesis after the total points:

    1 Can 3826 (4)
    2 US 3142 (4)
    3 Rus 2911 (4)
    4 Ita 2420 (3)
    5 Fra 2218 (4)
    6 Ger 2143 (4)
    7 Chn 2062 (4)
    8 Jpn 2009 (3)
    9 S K 1356 (2) *
    10 Esp 1283 (3) *
    11 Kaz 1080 (1) *
    12 UKR 991 (4)
    13 GBR 776 (3)
    14 Est 671 (3)
    15 Aus 650 (3) **
    16 CZE 611 (3) *
    17 Swe 505 (2)


    Because the team event itself requires competition in 3 disciplines, and only allows for 1 non-qualified skater or team in one discipline to gain entry to the Olympics, teams effectively have to have qualified pairs/dance teams or skaters in at least 2 disciplines to be truly eligible.

    So unless South Korea, Spain, Kazakhstan and Czech Republic qualify in another discipline, they are out. Ukraine and GBR are in, with Estonia and Sweden as the 1st and 2nd alternates. All four countries, plus Japan, would have to take advantage of the "Additional Athletes" provision to bring skater(s) for a third discipline.

    Australia has 650 points, but they haven't qualified anyone to the Olympics, so unless they can somehow qualify in two disciplines this fall, they are not in contention :(
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2013
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  8. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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  9. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    Jin Seo Kim of South Korea is on the bubble to qualify at Nebelhorn. Does South Korea even have a pairs or dance team to bring to Sochi?
     
  10. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    They have junior dance teams (Sergei Astashev has relocated to South Korea to develop ice dance there) but I haven't seen any pair teams competing anywhere.
     
  11. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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  12. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    At 2013 South Korean Nationals there was one Junior Ice Dance team competing (other than Kim/Minov) but no Junior Pairs and no Novice teams.

    But from what I heard Astashev has been putting together and coaching a few teams, maybe they haven't been competition ready yet.
     
  13. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    The original thread Sylvia started when the announcement with the qualification rules came out in February is here:

    http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/sho...-Skating-including-Team-Event&highlight=Sochi

    Qualification is based on the ten highest country totals of:

    World Standings points earned by the highest-placed skater/team from each discipline at 2013 World Championships or, if no one from the country got WS points, then from 2013 Euros/4C's, and if still no WS points earned, then WS points from 2013 Jr. Worlds

    plus

    World Standings points earned by the highest-placed skater/team at this year's GP or GPF. If no one from the country competes at GP for the discipline, then the WS points earned by the highest-placed skater/team at this year's JGP (but not JGPF).​

    Since the JGP/GP season hasn't ended, there are only eight teams that are clear to qualify in the Top 10, barring disaster: RUS, CAN, USA, FRA, ITA, CHN, JPN, and GER. Each country has at least one entry in every discipline except ITA for Men, and GER for Ladies; GER will earn at least 186 for Lutricia Bock's 7th at JGP Riga. The Top 8 at each GP earn WS points, which is every finisher in Pairs and Dance and all but two in singles. Liebers might be on the cusp in his two GP's, in which case they'd be looking at one of their Junior Men to place at least 10th in the remainder of the JGP's.

    That Don Guy compiled the 2013 championship points in this post:

    http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/sho...g-Team-Event&p=3876026&viewfull=1#post3876026

    The only adjustment to ones at the top is to Italy, with 2475, because Bacchini's placement was listed inconsistently on the ISU site, but that won't impact the Top 10.

    At the end of Worlds, Spain was sitting in 10th, 141 points behind 9th place South Korea. Assuming Kim and Fernandez, the only GP participants from their countries, are healthy and compete at GPF, Spain won't catch KOR, which has earned 312 JGP points in Men and Pairs so far. Hurtado/Diaz and Sonia Lafuente are too far down the SB list to get GP spots, and it has no JGP skaters/teams in Ladies, Dance, or Pairs.

    Just behind Spain are KAZ (203 points behind) and UKR (292 points behind). Denis Ten is the only KAZ skater in GP or JGP, and Fernandez would have to do poorly and Ten well for KAZ to catch up with Spain. UKR doesn't have anyone who can place as well as a healthy Fernandez, although UKR will get at least 225 from their Ukrainian-born Jr. Dance team's silver at JGP in Gdansk.

    Spain should make the team event to skate the SP/SD, but, like South Korea shouldn't be competitive for the final, even if Fernandez and Kim win the SP, because they don't have Pairs teams to appoint to earn even a single point, and all things being equal, Spains Ladies and Dance and Korea's Men and dance would be close to or at the bottom.
     
  14. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    If South Korea qualifies on points, they won't be able to participate unless the gain an Olympic spot in men's and their dance team is old enough to go to Sochi as "additional athletes." Sensibly, if Jin Seo Kim gains a spot at Nebelhorn, but their dance team isn't old enough, they will not qualify as a team.

    If Lafuente qualifies a spot in ladies for Spain at Nebelhorn, then Spain is in the team event for sure. (ETA: I don't want to jinx them, Fernandez would have to skate at least one GP event, to be safe.)

    Assuming South Korea's dance team is too young to be eligible for Sochi, the final team spot would then be between UKR, GBR and Estonia.

    To participate in the team event, qualifying teams must field participants in at least 3 disciplines. Entry in at least 2 of the disciplines must be earned the 'normal' way (Worlds + other Olympic qualifiers such as Nebelhorn).
     
  15. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Kim has a very good chance of qualifying given the field, and while the Korean Dance team is old enough, but he'd need Korean citizenship, so Korea is likely out. Lafuente has a better chance than Kim to qualify for Sochi, but if she doesn't, Spain is out of the team competition as well, since Hurtado/Diaz aren't competing at Nebelhorn.

    You're right that GBR would be in the running: I didn't see that McCorkell earned a Ladies spot, and there are no GBR Ladies at Nebelhorn.

    This all assumes that the National Olympic Committees will be sending the skaters that qualify at Nebelhorn and/or will be willing to allow skaters to be appointed.
     
  16. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    Hurtado/Diaz are listed for Nebelhorn as of Sept. 15.
     
  17. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    :duh: Spain is alphabetized as "Spain", not by it's country code (ESP).
     
  18. DaveRocks

    DaveRocks Well-Known Member

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    I posted this in the previous thread, but it wasn't answered. Does anybody have any idea?

    Merci!
     
  19. A.H.Black

    A.H.Black Well-Known Member

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    Just from a logistics stand point. That's 40 short programs on day one. That's one long competition.

    - I assume all 10 pairs will skate together etc. and the disciplines will not be mixed up.
    - I'm also assuming there will be more than one judging panel - one for pairs, one for dance, one for men's, one for ladies?
    - I'm also assuming it will be in Olympic order - pairs, men, dance, ladies?
    - Would it be possible to use a substitution at the last minute? For example if Canada was so far ahead after men's free that a win was likely, could another country pull their best dance team or ladies competitor in favor of a lesser competitor?
    - I'm assuming strategy in this event will rival swimming relays or track and field relays.
     
  20. misskarne

    misskarne #ForzaJules #KeepFightingMichael

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    Australia has Brendan Kerry, Brooklee Han and Danielle O'Brien/Gregory Merriman attending Nebelhorn this week.
     
  21. DaveRocks

    DaveRocks Well-Known Member

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    No, the schedule is:

    -Men and Pairs short programmes on Feb. 6 (the day before the opening ceremonies)
    -Dance and Ladies short programmes AND Pairs Free programme on Feb. 8 (hence my question two posts earlier)
    -Men, Ladies and Dance free programmes on Feb. 9 (medals awarded)

    So, the first day has 20 short programmes. Two nights later we have 20 more short programmes followed by 5 long programmes. The last night has 15 long programmes.
     
  22. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    The second on selecting the skaters/teams in the FS/FD portion reads:

    For the 5 Teams qualified for the Free Skating/Free Dance of the Figure Skating Team Event the NOC/ISU Member must declare the Skater/Couple competing for the Free Skating/Free Dance immediately (latest about 10 minutes) after the conclusion of the last Short Program/Short Dance of the Team Event in order to ensure that the Team composition of all Teams are known before the beginning of the Free Skating/Free Dance.​

    It's likely that RUS, CAN, and USA will get three spots, and their Pairs will assume to be skating, and that JPN, CHN, ITA, and FRA will be fighting for the last two spots. Given how weak they are in Dance, CHN may have a good idea by the end of the Pairs SP if they have a fighting chance at the final, and FRA will likely have a good guess, since they will know by then how P/B did against the Russian Dance teams at GPF and/or Euros, and they don't have a very strong Lady. Assuming T/K qualify for the Olympics, they may have to wait until the end of Ladies to find out, and, if Kostner is skating the SP for ITA, so might ITA.

    The judges section reads:

    c) Immediately following the draw procedure for the respective panels for the individual OWG competitions/disciplines the draw for the panels of the Figure Skating Team Event will follow. The composition will be made as follows

    • Pair Skating 9 NOCs/ISU Members out of the 13 NOCs/ISU Members drawn for the Pair Skating individual OWG competition will form the Pair Skating panel for the Pair Skating Team Event.
    • Men 5 NOCs/ISU Members, out of the 13 NOCs/ISU Members drawn for the Men individual OWG competition and 4 NOCs/ISU Members out of the 9 NOCs/ISU Members drawn already in the Pair Skating Team event will form the panel of Judges for the Men Team Event.
    • Ladies 5 NOCs/ISU Members, out of the 13 NOCs/ISU Members drawn for the Ladies individual OWG competition and 4 NOCs/ISU Members out of the 9 NOCs/ISU Members drawn already in the Pair Skating Team event will form the panel of Judges for the Ladies Team Event
    • Ice Dance 9 NOCs/ISU Members out of the 13 NOCs/ISU Members drawn for the Ice Dance individual OWG competition will form the Ice Dance panel for the Ice Dance Team Event.

    d) All Judges, officiating in the Team Event can be invited to act as a Substitute Judge for another discipline of the Team Event if needed and so qualified.​

    If I'm reading this correctly, it's possible that up to four judges can be drawn to do Pairs, Men, and Ladies, or two each day.
     
  23. allezfred

    allezfred Hideous Admin Staff Member

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  24. leapfrogonice

    leapfrogonice Active Member

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    Unlike World Team Trophy, where there was so much characteristically Japanese-fan serving emphasis on "rooting one's teammates on" it will be interesting to see how much effort is placed by the athletes on all the kiss 'n cry shenanigans at the Olympics. Doubt we'll see much.
     
  25. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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  26. Jiazumi

    Jiazumi Active Member

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    The shenanigans will probably be turned down a knotch or two, but that doesn't mean the athletes won't push each other. They all are hungry for an easy medal.

    I wonder what the venue will look like..I liked how the Japanese set up the team boxes with the glittery flags...actually they were tiny beads if you look closer.:shuffle:
     
  27. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    The three top medal team contenders should be RUS, CAN, and USA. RUS as the home team has incentive to have the crowds behind the team. USA and CAN will have media there, and it's in their best interests to get people hooked in at the beginning of the broadcasts. The IOC might not even allow the teams to wait in KnC, let alone decorate them, but if they don't, I'd expect a lot of TV shots of the teams sitting together in the athlete section of the stands, in whatever celebratory gear they have and waving lots of flags.
     
  28. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    Once they get down to 5 teams, it would be cool if they each had a 'bench' area, their own K'n'C as it were.

    I thought this was a stupid idea, and while I am still concerned how the media will react to seeing programs 2x at the games, I think this format will have a positive impact on development of all disciplines in the 'bubble' countries.

    I still wish they would bring in elements of "top jump" and use the same format for spins. But for that to work, it would have to take place after the individual events as no one would throw caution to the wind before their main event.
     
  29. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    If time weren't so tight, they could make it part of the exhibition.
     
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  30. PeterG

    PeterG Argle-Bargle-ist

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    :huh:

    It's going to be less physically strenuous for the athletes to skate in this event than it will be in the individual events?