2014 Governining Council proposed changes

Discussion in 'Moves In The Field' started by ioana, Apr 7, 2014.

  1. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    For financial reasons I mainly only compete in our club's adult competition, which does divide freestyle and interp groups by age but often there will be two adjacent age groups combined.

    For men, they often don't have enough entries to divide by age at all.

    Some years I compete at nearby club competitions that offer adult freestyle. Those are the only events I have my coach for, since I can't make it worth her while to take a whole day off from teaching to come to an adult comp with only me. Those tend to have small adult fields, so I may end up competing against bronze skaters 20 years younger than me or skating up to silver just to have an event to enter -- and sometimes both. In which case I'm not surprised to get straight 4th-place ordinals in a field of 4, but it just makes 6.0 scoring meaningless for me.

    I only went to Adult Nationals once, in 1999 -- there were many entries and there were qualifying rounds. IIRC that was with age divisions.

    So for me personally, it doesn't make a big difference where they draw the lines on age groups.

    As I understand the proposal, the main time saving for Adult Nationals would be in warmup groups. Fewer events with 3-4 skaters, or 7-9 skaters, means fewer times that 6 minutes are spent with only 3 or 4 skaters on the ice.
     
  2. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    In case people aren't aware, there are videos posted for the following on the 2014 GC info page: http://www.usfsa.org/shell.asp?sid=49843

    Proposed Moves in the Field Change - Juvenile and Adult Gold Counterclockwise Forward to Backward Power Circles (items 348 and 353)
    Proposed Moves in the Field Change - Juvenile and Adult Gold Clockwise Backward to Forward Power Circles (items 348 and 353)
    Proposed Moves in the Field Change - Junior Choctaw Sequence (item 351)
     
    gkelly and (deleted member) like this.
  3. Debbie S

    Debbie S Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for posting, Sylvia! It looks like there aren't really any 'fast' crossovers on the power circles, maybe the last one in each sequence of 8. That might help me, lol, but the transition would definitely get me. Need to explore my summer testing options.
     
  4. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    I'm :( about loops being removed. They are my best move and I've worked long and diligently to make them perfect.

    EDIT: I see now that it says Sept. 2, 2014. Well I would like to get past this level before then, simply to just get test credit for the loops I've worked so hard for. :(
     
  5. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

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    That *is* a frustrating position, especially when you know you worked hard on a particular move. Fingers crossed you can pass MITF's before the proposed changes are approved.
     
  6. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, I see that the document says the loops are being removed because they are too hard to do on a free skate blade. That doesn't make sense because I've managed to get them, and I'm not the greatest skater in the world :)
     
  7. Jozet

    Jozet Active Member

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    As a test chair, I've seen very low pass rates on Novice MIF compared to almost all other levels. Even skaters who pass seems to get lowest scores on loops and then twizzles. A few judges who have done figures say that, yes, the blade makes it harder, but also not doing loop on circle makes it harder. I've never skated anywhere near that level or know much about the MIF tests themselves, but the judges seem to think the way loops were done on figures test were easier somehow. It still looks like a tough move to me.
     
  8. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    Even her first crossovers to begin the sequence aren't that slow, and there wasn't a huge increase/change in tempo, which I had thought was the whole POINT of the move. There doesn't seem to be much to distinguish these from Plain Jane crossovers.
     
  9. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

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    Holding the edge longer before you do the loop turn does help with getting the lean & body alignment for the actual turn -or getting closer to an actual loop tracing in my case ;). I can see why having an actual figure move on MITF tests would be strange and take up more time, so that's probably why they went with removing it completely.

    Power circles, OTOH, seem like an odd thing to remove.
     
  10. Jozet

    Jozet Active Member

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    These seemed to be one of the moves that went particularly quick. Juv moves in particular aren't one of the longer tests, it seems. Pre-Juv, Int and Novice seem to take longest.
     
  11. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    I personally think loops on a figure is pretty hard! Although I learned them the MIF way so maybe I'm just not used to it. The low pass rate is very true but I'm not sure if it has anything to do with the new content or just the fact that the general skating quality must be drastically higher in Novice. Even before the 2010 updates, I knew a skater who took Novice 10 times before passing.

    FWIW, here is something I posted in another thread that confirms pass rates are lowest for Novice MIF:

    Pre-pre 97.89%
    Pre 89.24%
    Pre-juv 69.50%
    Juv 76.58%
    Int 65.82%
    Int Supp 96.43%
    Nov 49.16%
    Jr 50.47%
    Sr 60.97%
    Sr Supp 65.75%

    It will be interesting to see what the new rates are with removal of Loops and inside twizzles.
     
  12. Jozet

    Jozet Active Member

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    Ay yi yi...not what I wanted to hear. My skater has taken the test 4 times. It's actually the last two moves she's weakest on. She's passed by enough judges, just not on the same session. Argh. We're finally switching to a moves specialist with experience with figures.
     
  13. jenlyon60

    jenlyon60 Member

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    I used to see a lot of re-tries on the old Novice test also. The first 2 moves of the old test used to often set the stage for the rest of the test, back then. Even the old bracket-3-bracket move tripped up a lot of skaters (sometimes literally).

    There's a lot of skills that all come together on the Novice test that rather makes it a "separator" test.
     
  14. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    I don't have enough experience to tell you why that is, but as a skater I wish that the passing standard would not be so drastic between Int./Nov. It's very discouraging.
     
  15. Jozet

    Jozet Active Member

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    You're not the only one I've heard say that. I've had judges tell me that kids who pass Novice will have no problem passing Junior and Senior. I'm not sure whether that means only the kids with talent/determination stick it out after Novice, or that the Novice moves are that much more difficult. Maybe a little of each?
     
  16. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what it means but I really feel Novice-Junior-Senior is just Senior1-Senior2-Senior3. I hear of people taking 5 times to pass Novice, then only a couple of times for Junior-Senior.
     
  17. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I think some of this can be attributed to the fact that many skaters drop out after the novice experience and don't attempt junior/senior. They pyramid gets smaller every step up.

    If the same number of skaters are trying each of the three tests, and the pass rate is that low on novice, there is a problem- but I don't think nearly as many people attempt junior/senior as novice. Lots of intermediate skaters don't realize what a big jump it is into that level. Novice is where skaters need to truly be good.
     
  18. Jozet

    Jozet Active Member

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    I'm guessing maybe some of the higher level tests can "test" less experienced coaches as well? If fewer kids taking those tests, less chance to learn yourself how to teach them, especially with new changes that come up based on figures they may not have taken themselves?
     
  19. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that explains it fully, or else the pass rate would be incrementally lower with each level, but really the only huge jump is between Int./Nov.
     
  20. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    Novice has some new difficult skills (counters, rocker-choctaws, currently loops and backward/double twizzles).

    There are fewer new skills on the junior test: only the sustained rockers and quick rockers and reversing choctaws, and currently the back loops.

    Oh, and currently toe turns.

    By senior, there aren't really any new skills -- just new and in some cases difficult combinations of existing skills. And some of them no longer have to be done on all edges on both feet.

    So in addition to the other reasons already mentioned, it may be more daunting to test some skills for the first time with the expectation of good quality than to put already-mastered skills in new combinations with excellent quality.
     
  21. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

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    :confused: Isn't the pass rate just #of passes/#tests taken? In that case, fewer skaters taking the test wouldn't matter. What would matter would be how many of the skaters taking Jr/Sr pass the tests. And in case they manage to stick with it until they pass Novice, the higher tests seem to get easier for them.
     
  22. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Fewer skaters taking the test, in this case, seems to self select towards more prepared skaters taking the test. Those that can't skate at this level generally stop trying- which I think explains the higher pass rates of jr/sr than novice.

    The tests below novice I think are achievable by most skaters who work towards them. Novice is the kicker where it gets hard. (And the introduction of many new moves is also a very good reason novice is harder.)
     
  23. clairecloutier

    clairecloutier Active Member

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    Quick question--do other countries also test MITF, or something similar?
     
  24. Debbie S

    Debbie S Well-Known Member

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    I believe Canada does, not sure about others.
     
  25. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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  26. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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  27. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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  28. Visaliakid

    Visaliakid Well-Known Member

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  29. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    ^^^ I can bump up the Pfenning thread in GSD on this topic? This thread appears to be focused primarily on skating rule changes.

    ETA link to GSD thread: Ron Pfenning Running for U.S. Figure Skating President

    Usually we have an annual GSD thread for USFS' Governing Council news and updates (I can start one closer to May 1st when GC begins).
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2014
  30. danceronice

    danceronice Corgi Wrangler

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    I've been making myself skate (bad, basic, don't look at the tracings please) figures after realizing my edges need work. I'm basically teaching myself so that doesn't help, but loops seem to be one of those things that look like nothing on paper but when you go to DO them...I taught myself brackets back when I started taking lessons (forcing my poor dance coach to work them even though I wasn't anywhere near that MITF yet so at least I'd do them right) and somehow those are easier than loops. (I will say all of a sudden my 3-turns are back where they were five years ago and my inside edges, which are my weaker ones, suddenly improved and I abruptly rotated a forward scratch spin my group teacher was trying to get me to do. Go figures.)