2012 Japan Open, Oct. 6th, 2012

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by 4STh, Jun 17, 2012.

  1. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    Buttle looked great - and a 3A!! He's really kept his skills up which is pretty impressive.
  2. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    I adore Mao and I am so glad that she seems to be coming back to life but I'm not in love with her Swan Lake program, at least not yet. Hopefully her new LP will grow on me though as the season progresses.
  3. Rock2

    Rock2 New Member

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    The theme for this year seems to be 'boring...old school programs'. I'm struggling to engage in some of this stuff and find myself fast forwarding or stopping the stream saying to myself "I've seen enough...NEXT"

    Don't think Suzuki's completely works but has some potential. Applause for doing something a bit different. Love Alena's dress and the music is good, too. I'd like to see that program develop.
  4. shah

    shah Well-Known Member

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    Buttle :swoon:
    oh, how I'd love to see him at Worlds and in Sochi...

    I really like Mao's Swan Lake. Ashley's S&D - not so much, unfortunately... it seems to me S&D joins the group of overused muzaks :p.

    love Akiko's costume :D.

    Gede is a rockstar, even with that many jump mistakes. Leonova was a hot mess.
    Plushenko - I'm not sure if this "the best of Saint Saens" free works well, but he deserves respect for his amazing jumping abilities (2 quads at 30 - wow!).

    Chan - finally, a good programme! I'm not his fan, but I'm so glad he went beyond obvious music choices, decided to skate 2 new programmes this season and expanded his artistic scope. hopefully, jumps m.i.a. was a mere blunder.

    Takahashi - honestly, I'm a bit disappointed. less dancing, more dramatic arms flailing plus typical Morozovian crap costume - hmm...
  5. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    That is THE DRESS of the year, so far. :glamor:
  6. anna1506

    anna1506 New Member

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    There is still a lot of things U've never seen before... :D
  7. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    Plushenko.

    What can I say? What can anyone say? For all the haters and critics and those who will belittle him at every opportunity they get, no-one can deny his greatness.

    Thirty years old, and still landing two quads. Thirty years old, and adding new elements. He is truly unbelievable. I can't wait to see how this looks come Euros.

    I love this program, and I love the way he skates it, with passion and fire. And no, he'll never have enough transitions to satisfy the haters :rolleyes: but there are more than there were, and put together better too. His program doesn't look cluttered or rushed. It flows.
  8. ItalianFan

    ItalianFan Member

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    very well said, my dear!
  9. anna1506

    anna1506 New Member

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    I agree!
  10. Fure

    Fure New Member

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    Yep. Definitely :swoon:
  11. ratatouille

    ratatouille New Member

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    I love Plushy's skating, he's unbelievable/

    Akiko as well!!!

    Love Mao's new LP. The music cut is really good as well as the costume and choreo! Good to see her back in good shape and nice smile again!
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2012
  12. Doggygirl

    Doggygirl Well-Known Member

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    Just now getting around to watching the vids. Wow. Epic Buttle! :kickass: Also excited to see the early versions of this seasons programs. It will be interesting to see how these all evolve. I will confess to missing Dai's usual hotness factor within his program. Hopefully we will see some hot Dai :smokin: in his SP? Good to see Mao. Hopeful that Ashley's program will evolve positively, and that she will get a different color dress. Suzuki is the most beautiful bird ever! :) Plush is amazing.

    SA next weekend! It's finally here!
  13. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    Wow ... Plushy certainly had more of a "program" at the JO this year than I've seen from him in at least 8 years.

    Mao was lovely.

    I would describe Ashley as having taken it to the next level. Her program is well constructed, she seems very fit, and her jump technique seems better in the air and during the landings (ie not falling).
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2012
  14. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you didn't see Plushy's programs. :wideeyes:
  15. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    Do you wonder? Look at this!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVGRZLmIEIw
    "I have never tried to stop my improvement. The duty of a top athlete is to improve the sport"
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2012
  16. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. Although I am not a fan, I respect Evgeni greatly. And I have to say that this was really moving, although the music is probably a bit too much. As for "improving the sport" - probably he has a different idea of "improvement" than other people who don't like his skating.
  17. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    Maybe. But if you surf on the Youtube, you will see how many people like him, and how much inspiring personality he is. And his name will be unforgettable, it will be in the sport lexicon, like a best male skater after the Second War( Mr Cinquanta). :) Nobody can't deny.
  18. The Accordion

    The Accordion Well-Known Member

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    I agree with
    how many people like him
    name will be unforgettable
    will be in the sport lexicon

    These are all facts

    Best male skater after the 2nd world war is subjective.
    I personally don't agree - but many might.
  19. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    I'M curious for your aspects.
  20. The Accordion

    The Accordion Well-Known Member

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  21. Really

    Really No longer just a "well-known member" Yay!

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    Views? Opinions?
  22. The Accordion

    The Accordion Well-Known Member

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    Well I have a great deal of admiration for Plushenko.

    I think he has amazing charisma and performs like a real showman.

    I attended the Worlds in 2001 and seeing him in person made me appreciate him much more than I had previously.

    Since then I have been amazed at his steel will, athleticism and sheer determination. I cannot think of many athletes who have accomplished what he has- and his comeback for the Olympics in 2010 after all he had already accomplished and after all that his body had been through baffles me.

    Although I appreciate his showmanship - I have not been a fan of his choreography generally speaking and I do believe his technical prowess combined with his performance and charisma have led to his being overmarked in some PCS categories with COP. His style overall is one I appreciate but do not love, though I do understand the appeal to his many fans.

    I have been taken aback by some of his comments and actions But I believe people underestimate the kind of personality it takes to achieve what champions do. Plushenko and Chan and Joubert, Slutskaya and Scott Moir to name a few are extremely competitive people.

    It is the same part of them that drives them to be as amazing as they are that leads them to say or do things in the heat of the moment that people cling to to justify their hate of them. I am not justifying or excusing what they do or say and I do understand that other people who have achieved as they have don't have the same track record. I just don't think we should cling to those negative things forever and not allow ourselves to appreciate their greatness because of them.

    However, I was also at the Olympics in 2010 and despite that Lysacek is not one of my favourite skaters - I don't have any doubt that he deserved to be champion. I really wanted Takahashi to win and for Lambiel to place higher- but I also believe that Plushenko finished ahead of them fairly - although I do believe with more of a point spread than earned.

    As far as who is the greatest male skater since the 2nd World War - well I think there are many candidates and it depends on what you choose as your criteria. Longevity? Number of titles? Impact on the sport? Scores? Elements? Figures / no figures? Artistry? It might make an interesting thread! I would imagine getting a mutually agreed upon criteria would be difficult!

    And even if you were to get it down to a science in order to calculate who is the greatest - even then - there would be people who would disagree.

    And then of course - there is the question - whom do you enjoy watching the most? That will always be a matter of opinion.
  23. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    sorry my poor english...


    What are your considerations? Who is the best male skater after Second War?
  24. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    OK. You are right, we can't decide it.


    These are my considerations:

    Number of titles: only major competitons: 1time Junior WCH(14 years), 9 times Russian Champ, 7 times Eu Champ, 3 times W Champ,1 time Olympic Ch, 2 times Olympic silver medalist, 4 times GPF gold medalist, other gold medals of GP, other medals of Eu, and WCh,he was 15 years old when he was 2. in senior EuCH and 3. in senior WCH.
    Longevity: e won his first world medal 1998, he was 15.

    Dominance: I think it's unequivocal.

    Impact on sport : I use Tomas Verner words: Last year he made his comeback by winning the Europeans’ in Sheffield… He is a skating legend. Evgeni is a great skater. He proved he really is a legend. He was a teenager when he started to win competitions, and year after year your are amazed by his consistency. He gave so much to figure skating. He is an incredible athlete.
    another interview:. Personally, to me is difficult to find a better skater than Plushenko in the history of figure skating.
    Daisuke in 2006:
    "oh, my god,, there was a God,,",
    I felt amazing aura,, he couldn't hide it" etc..

    Impact on people: no doubt: "Plushenko has brilliant technique, overflowing grace and art, charisma and humour...and he is spectacular, amazing, incomparable, top quality... simply the best. It's difficult to find enough words to describe such a talent. oh, I forgot something? Yes! So powerful, yet so elegant, and just an utterly authoritative energy. He never fails to amaze. PLUSHENKO!"
    " The God is exist-he is the proof"
    Verner: And it's without mentioning of Evgeni Plushenko - probably the only one skater in the world, capable alone to filed full arena.

    Innovations : He landed the world first "Plushenko combination" 4-3-2 and 4-3-3, created beautiful and complex "Plushenko ring" spin. etc.

    Artistry:
    At the age of 16 Plush was the youngest skater to ever receive a perfect score of 6.0. He received a total of 75 6.0s before the new judging system was introduced, most of them are the artistry points.

    Diversity: Bolero, Sex Bomb, Asissai, Nijinsky, Hafanana, St. Petersburg 300, Crazy Bird, Pasadena, Only You, Adagio, Tango and Flamenco, Godfather, Swan..need more?
  25. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Obviously sincere, heartfelt and moving, but skirts a bit along the edges of overdone as it continues. I love the photos. I don't doubt Evgeni Plushenko will always be remembered and he is already legendary in the sport of figure skating. I don't doubt he is a human being either with blood, not oil running through his veins. Sure it was fierce desire and competitiveness that had him heartbroken at not winning gold in 2010. It seems to me that the great majority of fans admire Plush's noble efforts in coming back, not once but twice and performing at a high level.

    But many other skaters also want to win Olympic gold. It should be a competition, not a coronation. Perhaps Plush's will and conviction are stronger than that of his competitors. We will find out if that is the case, and whether his body will be stronger as well. I feel sorry for Plush if he gives everything he's got and wins silver, bronze, or off the podium. However, being that the winter games will take place in Sochi, that will definitely combine with Plushenko's will and give him a greater advantage, particularly if he stays on his feet and brings the transitions and graceful artistry that he did not bring in either 2006 or 2010.

    In any case, how could Plush's fans love him more, as he says he's hoping for?
  26. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    I very much enjoyed Jeff's performance. Maybe he should start training quads with his eyes on Sochi?
  27. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    Of post war skaters, I'd say Dick Button handily has that title. Plushenko's definitely up there, though.
  28. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Jeff will probably continue to joyously tour, and compete in Pro-Ams and professional competitions while continuing to choreograph for himself and others. He's also probably feeling very flattered and grateful for all the congratulations and adulation from skating fans.